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Posts from your questions regarding the game rules (improving the interpretation).

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Offline scorp
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#31
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Juristis
Oh, there's even a discussion here) We need to think about the wording; none of the options listed above are suitable. Besides assessing the strength of a block, there's another, more important issue: assessing the possibility of developing without breaking the block. This also needs to be addressed.
And the Grail should definitely be allowed; this ban only clutters the rules.
if they don't fit, then why? If the interpretation is unclear, that's fine, otherwise, provide arguments as to why.
where are you going with this? You haven't decided on the block yet, and now you want new "ambiguities"? It just smells like trolling without offering any alternative interpretations.
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Offline Iamsamstan
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#32
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I agree with those who say that there's no replay value in the block. You watch a stream, and it's just empty, nothing happens, there are some arrows and a little bit of action, so you take the replay. But then, after all three replays, the block comes, and by the way, in the last "Outlaw" stream, it was clearly stated that there's no replay for the block, and no one argued. So, we could conduct a poll about this, or find some other way to resolve it, instead of arguing about checkboxes.
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Offline skd
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#33
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Let's analyze this with a specific example. In the first game of the novice final on 8mm6a, I had no restarts left, and at turn 111, I encountered a block of 10-19 Cyclops. I didn't request a restart for the block because it was already in the next zone, and according to the rules, that doesn't count as a block restart. However, this block effectively ruins the pace of the game; additionally, there was an exit onto lava via rough terrain – approximately 4 turns away from the city for my hero.
More than 10 Cyclopes represent over 10k in value, and I believe that in such cases, a restart should be allowed because development here is more or less possible due to the dungeon under Lord containing Aine, allowing me to develop somewhat.

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Offline scorp
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#34
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The_
I'll reiterate, the idea of having a precise number is difficult to implement, whether it's tied to a value or the number of creatures of a certain level.
...
Yes, it's difficult to find a solution that works in so many different situations. Are you suggesting that we call a judge every time? We need to find a solution where two players have as few disagreements as possible in interpreting a particular rule, and more time is spent on the game itself.
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Offline Juristis
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#35
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Basically, we need to create a poll about removing the resource penalty for building and removing the restriction on building the Grail. Perhaps with a limit on building it in the Tower/Conflux. If no one takes care of it by the end of the day, I might do it tonight.
heroes3.tv/juristis
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Весна 2014.
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Offline scorp
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#36
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skd
Let's analyze this with a specific example...
In the picture, the layout is bad; the "block" isn't meant for "mooshing" chocolate. By "block," we mean access to your own spawn point, and everything outside of it is considered "guardians" (if you can't reach them, don't attack them; go around).
It would be more difficult if these Cyclops were building on the swamp in front of the passage's guardians – in this case, the interpretation should be about a single path from the spawn point to the block, and in this interpretation, the Cyclops outside the spawn point are no longer a "block" (is it after 3 rounds and 111 units??? – do you like restarting, do you like extreme challenges? That's what I think). So, I wouldn't add anything about a single path to the block (again, the search for chocolate), but what if there are Archmages and no other way out of the spawn point?
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Offline Wicc
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#37
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evil_romantic
I am for a complete cancellation of the report regarding the block and for unbanning Graal.
Decided to be closer to the people? :D
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Offline The_
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#38
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scorp
yes, it's difficult to find a solution with so many different situations. Are you suggesting that we call a judge every time? We need to find a solution where two players have as few disagreements as possible in interpreting a particular situation, and more time is spent on the game itself.
I am pointing out the imperfection of this option; I haven't made any suggestions yet, as I wrote earlier – it needs to be thought through.
At first glance, the current version of the rules seems to be the least of all evils.
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Offline scorp
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#39
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The_
I am pointing out the imperfections of this option; I haven't made any suggestions yet, as I wrote earlier – it needs to be thought through.
At first glance, the current version of the rules seems to be the least of all evils.
Right now, it's not described at all "how much" constitutes a block:
A block is a strong defense of something that cannot be destroyed without catastrophic losses in a specific game.
1) What is a strong defense?
2) What are these catastrophic losses?
3) Who should conduct the battle?
4) Is it possible to invite an independent player to conduct the battle?
5) Points 3 and 4 overlap – how many attempts do they have, and what will happen if the player from point 4 wins the battle without catastrophic losses, but the player from point 3 does not?

Then there was an interpretation about development and not only:
A restart is taken at the request of the player who owns the block if it is impossible to bypass the block, which cuts off the Castle from the main part of the starting zone, leaving no possibility of development up to the block.
1) "How much" is the main part of the starting zone?
2) What is "development up to the block"?

I thought you might want to get rid of this and translate it into quantitative indicators
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Offline Gomunguls
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#40
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1) Options involving monster forces will only complicate things.
If you look at the passage from the rules:
A restart is allowed at the player's discretion if they own the Castle and it is impossible to bypass the block that cuts off the Castle from the main part of the starting zone, leaving no possibility of development up to the block.
Here are some points that may cause disagreement: the main part of the starting zone, the possibility of development up to the block.
If I read "main part of the starting zone," then for me, it's 70% of the starting respawn area, and 30% is not the main part... which is absurd if that's how the respawn area is divided. The possibility of development – as discussions have shown – for Kosti is collecting gold and building buildings; in my understanding, it's only about upgrading the Castle. This again causes disagreement...
In this case, the rules need to specify:
1. If you are blocked in a city and the block cannot be broken, then a restart is allowed. If it can be broken, but with losses of more than 50%, then a restart is also allowed.
2. If there is a controversial situation regarding breaking the block, then the owner of the block tries to break it first, reports the result to the opponent; if the opponent is not satisfied, the save file before the battle is sent to the administration.
As mentioned above, canceling the restart due to a block is also an option.

2) Cancel "hit and run" tactics; if someone is killed by magic, it's their own fault for not being prepared.

3) So, here's the next situation that occurred in a game against Dark on Jebus... in a controversial situation, Pit and Dirty helped me figure it out (I have great respect for both of them!!! and I definitely don't want to accuse them), but in this situation, my opinion differed from theirs, and the answer to the situation did not satisfy me. That is, here too, it is necessary to specify so that there is only one option, and not more, which would cause disagreement. Namely (the option in the screenshot):
So, the red hero flies over the Trezh! (flies from one passage and kills the guard on the other) then kills the Guardian of the Outpost from the Monarchs. In my opinion, this is a violation because, ideally, he should have broken the Guardian of the Outpost from his respawn point from the passage where the Monarchs are, and then gone to the other zone, instead of doing this by running through the Trezh...
Let's read the rules:
2.6. Transitions between zones.
By the words "a specific passage between zones" on the generated game map, it means the space between obstacles that form the boundaries of zones, through which the hero can pass into the adjacent zone. In a real game situation, there may be several such passages, even if the template scheme indicates that the passage is the only one.
On all templates, except for XL+U size templates:
2.6.1. In order to pass from one zone to another through a specific passage, it is necessary to eliminate the guard of this passage. If there are several guards on the passage, it is enough to destroy any of them.
Reading the rules, I don't understand why such actions are allowed?

4) In the Castle, it should be allowed to upgrade to level 6 at the Conflux.

For now, that's all according to the rules.
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Offline scorp
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#41
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we need an interpretation that won't raise so many questions (ideally, zero questions), so I suggest this approach: an interpretation appears, and it's bombarded with questions ("reasonable" ones) - the author of the interpretation, or someone else, refines it, and the questions continue until they approach zero. If there are several interpretations that pass this process, we can choose one through voting or some other method.

Added 12 minutes later
Gomunguls
So, the next situation is...
a screenshot is needed from the perspective of the side whose actions are being analyzed; take a screenshot as the red player.
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Offline skd
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#42
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Gomunguls


3) So the following situation occurred in a game against Dark on Jebus Cross... in a disputed situation, Pit and Derty helped me figure it out (I have great respect for both!!! and in no way meant to reproach them), but in this case my opinion and theirs differed, and the ruling on the situation did not satisfy me. That is, this also needs to be specified so that there is only 1 option and not multiple, which could cause disagreements. Namely (the scenario in the screenshot):
So the red Conflux hero flies over the treasure zone! (flies from one passage and kills the guard on the other) then kills the GO from the Monks. In my opinion this is a violation, since ideally, he would have had to break his own GO from his spawn from that passage where the Monks are and then proceed to another zone, rather than doing it by running through the treasure zone...
we read the rules:
2.6. Transitions between zones.
The words "a specific passage between zones" on the generated game map refer to the gap between obstacles forming the boundaries of zones, through which a hero has the opportunity to move to the adjacent zone. In an actual game situation, there may be several such passages, even if the template scheme indicates that there is only one passage.
On all templates except XL+U sized templates:
2.6.1. In order to move from one zone to another through a specific passage, it is necessary to eliminate the guard of that passage. If there are multiple guards on the passage, it is sufficient to destroy any one of them.
Reading the rules, I don't understand why such actions are allowed?

.
According to the rules - if he has broken at least one of his GO, then he can fly over to the treasure zone, but then he does not have to break his second GO - the Monks. If he, without killing his GO, flew out into the treasure zone and broke his GO as shown in the screenshot, then I agree that this is a violation.
Did I understand correctly - are the Monks his GO?

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Offline Dima Surmay
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#43
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Gomunguls

Namely (variant in the screenshot):
So the red Conflux hero flies over the treasure zone! (flies from one passage and kills the guards in the other) then kills the GO from the Monarchs. In my opinion, this is a violation, since ideally, he should have broken the GO from his spawn in the passage where the Monarchs are, and then moved into another zone, instead of doing this by running across the treasure zone...
Perhaps the rules are not clearly written, and Dark took advantage of this, but if you understand why and for what purpose the rules are written that way, then of course you cannot do that. It's strange that the judges ruled differently than you.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#44
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The rules state the following:
- Transitioning between zones using the Angel Wings artifact and the Fly and Teleportation spells is allowed:
a) between any of zones 1-4 and the central zone 5, if the Guard of Honor (GO) of any passage between the corresponding zones has been defeated;
b) between two zones 1-4, if the GO has been defeated between the central zone 5 and both of these zones;
c) in cases of multiple GOs of one passage - to approach the GO chosen by the player, with the first action in the new zone being the elimination of that GO.
In other words, when flying out from the starting point, you can attack the GO from any convenient angle.
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Offline Mizrael
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#45
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Isn't the whole point of this situation that the AI only has one path to follow? And doesn't that automatically make point c) irrelevant?
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