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icq: 407907277
skype: piterius_i
History clearly states that Ukrainians never had THEIR own king, and they never will.
Indeed, Ukrainians never had their own kings. They had foreign kings – Russian, Polish, Soviet, and even Turkish ones were also present.
And as long as the game of "legitimate and transparent change of power" continues, there will be a struggle among foreign kings for the opportunity to control the political steering wheel of Ukraine. We are currently observing the acute phase of this process.
This game can end in two ways – either one of the foreign kings will defeat the others, or a king of their own will appear, who will drive out the agents of influence of the foreign kings.
But it is better to tell fairy tales about democracy to children at night; they might believe them.
icq: 407907277
skype: piterius_i
as soon as you need to deviate from generally accepted, obvious canons, there is a clear limitation.
Don't paint everyone with the same brush. I've been to Kharkiv and Kryvyi Rih (your region), and the people there are far from the worst. They say they will make their voices heard, but you're looking at the situation one-sidedly. Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're making a well-considered decision.
I repeat, I don't support Maidan or the current government; I'm for well-considered decisions.
P.S. You're right, there are at least two truths, and people like "us" don't need to be taken into account, right? I'm eagerly awaiting the new government; I think Yanukovych will have the sense to resign.
Words are cheap; actions speak louder. We can talk all day, but when it comes to action, we hide in the bushes, "my house is on the edge."
What do you call well-considered decisions? In Bosnia, the government resigned on the third day of protests, the people got what they wanted, and everyone went home. Here, the trough is more important than the lives of many people. That's certainly the most well-considered decision in the world.
Resignation is inevitable; I agree with you 100%.
Added 2 minutes later
For example?
What's an example? All you hear is "it will be like this because it always has been and always will be," "it has to be this way because it was this way there and there, because that's how it is with us, and it will only be that way with you." I don't even read it anymore, even though I used to enjoy it.
icq: 407907277
skype: piterius_i
Talking is one thing, doing is another. We're more interested in chatting than in taking action. And when it comes to action, we'll just sit back and watch.
What do you call well-considered decisions? In Bosnia, on the third day of protests, the government resigned, and the people got what they wanted and dispersed. Here, the trough is more important than the lives of many people. This is, of course, the most well-considered decision in the world.
Resignation is inevitable, I agree with you completely.
Someone asked for links – here you go. This channel shows what everyone else keeps quiet about. Of course, they're doing it for money, a lot of money from foreign agents.
icq: 407907277
skype: piterius_i
So, either don't make "the power of foreign agents" the main focus, or explain how you see it working?
The technology behind the "Orange Revolution" is based on this:
- The media shapes the desired point of view both within the country and abroad.
- An underground network recruits and trains fighters and supporters, mainly from those who share Juristis's mindset.
- The authorities' efforts to counter this process are sabotaged, both during the preparation and the active phase.
This is a well-tested scenario, including in 2004 in Ukraine. For this, yes, many agents of influence are needed – at least in the media, in youth organizations, and in law enforcement.
But recently, they have learned how to fight it. It turns out that simply not allowing things to escalate is enough, and the scenario begins to falter. The key factor is the position of law enforcement agencies – if they are capable and loyal to the government, then the "Maidans" fail. This is what has happened to the Americans in Kazakhstan, Belarus, and Russia in recent years.
And if you also put pressure on the media and various NGOs (which Putin is currently doing), then even preparing for a "Maidan" becomes difficult, and bringing it to the active phase becomes even more difficult.
As you rightly pointed out, everyone understands everything, both ours and theirs, the difference between us and the argument lies in the fact that "talking is not the same as doing, we're happy to just chat, but action is another matter. And when it comes to action, we disappear into the bushes, my house is on the edge." A balanced decision involves thinking about what to do next first, and then acting. Your position is to act first, then think about what to do next. This topic has been discussed ad nauseam, and I completely agree with you that playing Heroes is much better than these forum squabbles.
My friend, today is the 90th day of the Maidan!!! How stupid do you have to be not to understand after three months that you need to leave??? Dad still believes that this is just a group of extremists and that the only option is for everyone to go home! Kyiv is paralyzed today, all the roads to the capital have been blocked with sand and concrete to prevent protesters from entering, and every other car is being searched. Is this how they fight extremism?
What are you trying to tell me? I don't understand...
Added 13 minutes later
How can you not set it up... but who will then spread propaganda, form a bandit underground, sabotage the actions of the authorities, and put obstacles in their way? It is difficult to do this from across the ocean; a presence on the ground is needed.
The technology of the Orange Revolution is based on this:
- The media forms the desired point of view within the country and abroad
- the underground recruits and trains fighters and extras, mainly from people with the same mindset as Juristis
- the actions of the authorities to counter this process are sabotaged, both during preparation and in the hot phase
This scenario has been tested many times, including in 2004 in Ukraine. For this, yes, you need many agents of influence - at least in the media, in youth organizations, and in law enforcement.
But recently, they have learned how to fight it. It turns out that it is enough not to let the fleas crawl under your shirt, and the scenario begins to falter. And the key is the position of law enforcement agencies - if they are capable and loyal to the government, then the Maidans fail. This is how the Americans have failed in Kazakhstan, Belarus, and Russia in recent years.
And if you also put pressure on the media and various NGOs (which Putin is currently doing), then it becomes difficult even to prepare for a Maidan, and even more difficult to bring it to the hot phase.
Nothing new, it's all the same - "but I know how it's done..." Boring.
By the way, the Maidan in 2004 was a peaceful demonstration, a kind of democratic manifesto, nothing more. Ten years have passed, and now there are almost none of those who were there at that time. It's a different generation, but the same mentality in more complex circumstances. Please, no more about grand, well-thought-out scenarios, about roles, and so on. I'm really tired of the prophets.
icq: 407907277
skype: piterius_i
What, for example? All you hear is "it will be this way because it always has been and always will be," "it needs to be this way because it was this way there and there, because that's how we do it, and you will only do it this way." I don't even read it anymore, even though I used to enjoy it.
For example, try to ask yourself - why were all the states that, at different times, embodied democracy, maritime states?
Ancient Greece - sea on three sides, mountains to the north
Ancient Rome - sea on three sides, mountains to the north
England - an island
USA - sea on two sides, weak states to the north and south that pose no threat
And as you move further inland, democracy falters more and more, and periods of democracy in continental states are firmly linked to periods of turmoil or fragmentation.
Or, for example, why were all the states that, at different times, embodied democracy, predominantly aggressors on the international stage?
The list is the same - the periods of defensive wars and containment of strong opponents in the history of these countries are the least democratic.
These are quite simple questions; you just need to ask them.
Added 5 minutes ago
Nothing new, it's all the same - "but I know how to do it..." Boring.
By the way, the Maidan in 2004 was a peaceful demonstration, a kind of democratic manifesto, nothing more.
I'm not talking about the reasons and motives, but about the perpetrators and the schemes of their actions.
icq: 407907277
skype: piterius_i
Tomorrow I will post a part of the values of democracy, just for general knowledge, not to tell children bedtime stories, but to think at leisure about who, where, and what values, what they believe in, and what they profess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPPxZl43u04
You asked for links – here you go. This channel shows what everyone else keeps silent about. Of course, it's done for money, a lot of money from foreign agents.
(many people here say that we, Russians, are not shown "the truth").