The first stage of the tournament "named after Van Kanigem" — Tournament history (offline)

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VDV_forever

19 years ago

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SECOND OFFLINE HEROES OF MIGHT AND MAGIC I TOURNAMENT "NEIGHBORS"

TOURNAMENT RULES

1. To participate in the second offline tournament for Heroes of Might and Magic I "NEIGHBORS", you must register on our website www.heroesworld.ru, as well as submit an application in this thread.

P.S. This tournament is held as part of the general same-named Cunningham tournament, therefore all information, as well as its progress and results, will be displayed in that section.

Турнир имени Jov Van Caneghem-а на HeroesWorld

Note: final tournament results will also be available in the offline tournaments section for Heroes of Might and Magic I.

2. The tournament is played on the Russian version of Heroes of Might and Magic I from Buka. The save will be generated on Russian version 1.1.

3. The goal of the game is to defeat the enemy.
The submitted save must contain the tournament number (2), the participant's number in the application table, the abbreviation (C - NEIGHBORS) and the player's Nick.

Example:

2_1_C_VDV_forever.GM1
2_2_C_AlexeyPank.GM1

4. The result will be evaluated, first and foremost, by the minimum time.
If several players have an equal walkthrough time, the best will be determined by the sum of primary skills (attack, defense, magic, knowledge) INCLUDING EQUIPPED ARTIFACTS; if a favorite is still not determined, then by the amount of mercury.

5. Along with the submitted save, it is mandatory to provide a description of the final step (battle with a hero, battle for a castle, capturing an artifact, victory over the last monster) after which victory occurs, or the walkthrough of the scenario.

6. The submitted save must have only one conquering hero who performs the final action (others should simply be dismissed).

7. It is forbidden: to buy back your dismissed heroes on the same day (i.e., using the "dismissal-buyback" trick);
it is also forbidden to buy heroes who died in battle (not to be confused with those who fled)!

8. It is forbidden: to move a bought-back hero who fled/paid off in battle on the day they fled/paid off. Buying such a hero is allowed, but they can only be moved the following day;

9.It is forbidden: To dig up the Grail without fully uncovering the puzzle map.

10. It is forbidden: to use cheating programs, codes, as well as additional software that can change the game structure.

11. Send the save to the email address VDV_forever@BK.RU

12. In case of suspicion of cheating or other malicious intent during the map walkthrough, a save must be made every game day.
In such a case (detection of cheating), the player will be required to send additional saves and provide a description of the walkthrough to the tournament organizer to determine whether the play was unfair or honest.
The result of a player who played dishonestly will be voided, and their further participation in tournaments will be impossible. This will also reflect poorly on their reputation.

13. Discussion of the tournament during its progress is FORBIDDEN!!!
(Players who violate this rule automatically exclude themselves from playing the tournament; their results will not be counted and will be annulled).

14. The tournament starts on February 1 and lasts until February 28 (inclusive!). Results will be announced on March 3, 2007.

15. After receiving your save, you will see in the application table that:

save accepted - indicated by a bold Nick.
save counted - indicated by an italicized bold Nick.

This list may be expanded with new participants!
We invite everyone to take part in the tournament!

Saves will only be considered for players who are in this table, so submit your applications IN ADVANCE!!!

PARTICIPANT LIST
NUMBER	PLAYER NICK
1	*VDV_forever*
2	*Kyle*
3	Night
4	*Inquisitor*
5	*Zingel*
6	Isabel
7	*AlexeyPank*
8	*GriB_o.k.*
9	*Lexx*
10	*Sage*
11	CrasH
12	*IronAxe*
13	*vbn*
14	*GmiR*
15	*Armadale*
16	*Alex R*
17	vbs
18	WAD
19	mmiha
20	*sergh*
21	*Fireball*
22	*Sir Christian*
23	*Lacky*
24	MasterCard
25	*Oleg RS*
26	*Varg-Nar*
27	*YoshiDo*
28	*Richard I*

Everything about the starting save

Starting save

from 01.02.07 download save:

map from which the save was generated:

1. Download the save.

2. The downloaded Save must be placed on your computer in the GAMES folder of the installed Heroes of Might and Magic I.

3. Load it and start playing at any time convenient for you, while remembering to make daily saves.

4. After reaching the final action (after which victory occurs), save again.

5. With the final save, describe this last step in detail (most likely a battle); then the results will be processed faster and there will be fewer suspicions of cheating!!!

6. A full description of the tournament map is encouraged (optional). If such descriptions are provided, a contest for the best description will be held; 10 of them (the very best) will take their place of honor in the "Hall of Fame" section!

7. Send this save to the specified address (in the rules of this tournament).

8. Wait for the results.

P.S. I wish all tournament participants a great time playing and, most importantly, VICTORY!

P.S.S. If there are any additions or comments, please do not hesitate to speak up to minimize disagreements and shortcomings in the same-named process of the tournament.

Sincerely, VDV_forever

In reply to Alan

IronAxe

19 years ago

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Alan;66898

Alright, basically we're waiting for comments. Because with all due respect to you, IronAxe, they've really started running in circles now.

Yes, VDV has already spoken, but let him confirm once more. Of course, you wrote everything correctly in the previous post—that the computer didn't just give away the Fortress, the player lured it out, took advantage of the computer's attempt to retake the Castle during the turn transition and won. And say, finished in 13 days. But another player finished PURELY in 12 days. Now one is listed as 12 in the table, the other as 13. Yet you give him 12, just like the first player, even though the first player somehow had enough moves to win BEFORE THE TURN transition. These are just my thoughts; feel free to ignore them, I'll play by the organizers' rules. If there is a Heroes-2 tournament at Kanigema, I'll probably take part in that too—just to remember what they even look like :) Haven't played them in a long time :)

In reply to IronAxe

Sergh

19 years ago

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I'm applying to participate very late, but I simply couldn't do it earlier.

In reply to IronAxe

VDV_forever

19 years ago

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IronAxe;66868

Once again. Let's say I send you a save where the computer, for some reason, doesn't want to attack me in the transition, and I know that. But I'll tell you that the computer on my computer attacks me during the turn transition, but very, very rarely - once a day - if I load the save for 24 hours. Will you really run this save for 24 hours straight? Or how else will you check? And I'll draw you screenshots of the battle.

I think it's unlikely that it happens once a day, it's practically IMPOSSIBLE!
I haven't encountered such a situation, but if I do, I'll keep running the save until the computer attacks.

IronAxe;66868

A question for VDV again regarding the hero analysis :)
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6. The submitted save must contain only one hero-conqueror, who makes the last action (the rest should simply be dismissed).
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If the player finishes the game not with the main hero, but with an auxiliary one, is he obliged to analyze the main one? Or can he indicate in the accompanying note which hero to finish the game with and which to count towards experience? In general, it would be better to write that the final save should contain NO MORE than two heroes. Please clarify this again :)

6. The submitted save must contain only one hero-conqueror, who makes the last action (the rest should simply be dismissed).

This point contains a certain idea, i.e., additional mental load on the person playing. He needs to try to play in such a way as to show both an optimal result in terms of speed and good characteristics for the hero who makes this last step!

Therefore, advice to everyone:

ALWAYS make the last move with the main hero! This way, you will eliminate the possibility of dismissing him in the finale!

Regarding two heroes:
We are not looking for easy ways ;)

Alan;66872

VDV, but you are sent a save from a specific day. Why isn't it counted?? Because someone drank too much when the table algorithm was being made (honestly, I just assume that the computer's turn is not counted. i.e., when the player clicks "next turn," the next day is immediately assigned to him. And when it starts, there is a check to see if all the victory conditions have been met, and the mission ends. But already on the next day)?? Then why is a live judge needed? They could just send screenshots of the finales, and that's it...

1. I believe that a player who sends his final save made on the same day has an advantage over a player who sent his final save during the turn transition. And this is obvious! Do you disagree?
2. If the developers had taken into account the possibility of not counting this day during the turn transition, then the days would be counted as you say.
3. I will not change the rules, so I will count the number of days according to the table that is displayed after the victory.

I would also like to remind you that the judge not only counts the results in terms of days, resources, characteristics, etc., but also checks each save for fair/unfair play.

Screenshots are sent only in tournaments like Knights of Honor, where the judging does not check the submitted saves.

P.S. I myself encountered this extra day during the turn transition; I was short by exactly 1 step! But I changed my tactics and... passed this tournament as planned, crushing the computer! But, again... I accidentally, after another celebration of victory, discovered a new strategy for completing the tournament map, with a significant lead over my current result! AAAAA!

Sincerely, VDV_forever

In reply to VDV_forever

IronAxe

19 years ago

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VDV_forever;67014

I think it's unlikely to happen once a day, it's practically IMPOSSIBLE!
I haven't encountered such a situation, but if I do, I'll keep reloading the save until the computer doesn't attack.

It's unlikely to happen to you because in that situation, you'll be calculating the result based on the table and won't be subtracting a day, so there's no point in anyone trying to manipulate the situation and deceive the judge. You just need to check if you can reach the computer on your turn and defeat it ;) if the computer completely refuses to let you attack.

VDV_forever;67014

6. The submitted save must contain only one hero who performs the last action (the others must simply be dismissed).
This point contains a certain idea, i.e., an additional mental challenge for the player. They need to try to play in such a way as to demonstrate both an optimal result in terms of speed and good characteristics for the hero who makes this last move!
Therefore, advice to everyone:
ALWAYS make the last move with your main hero! This way, you will eliminate the possibility of dismissing him in the final!

I agree. One point. If I make the last action, for example, by attacking with my powerful hero, then after the battle, I am given, let's say, a skill. But after that, we go to the table. QUESTION:
Do you take into account the skill gained by the hero on the last turn! Or do you take THIS data from the save before the last attack? Maybe there is an exception among the players? Some consider the skill gained on the last turn, while others don't (they forget, for example)? Please explain this important point to everyone.

VDV_forever;67014

Regarding two heroes:
We are not looking for easy ways ;)

We are too :) In my case (regarding the suggestion about two heroes), I need to think of a strategy so that I always finish the game with a supporting hero. This is, of course, if you don't count the skill gained by the main hero on the last turn. That is, the powerful hero should continue to level up on anything until the last point - and then pass the troops to the supporting hero to finish the game. So, until you give a clear definition of how the skill calculation works in your case, it's too early to say which path is easier? :) But in any case, it's easier to deal with a situation with one hero than with two. I just need to know what I asked about. This should also be included in the rules so that there are no questions.

VDV_forever;67014

1. I believe that a player who submits their final save made on the same day has an advantage over a player who submitted their final save during a turn transition. And this is obvious! Do you disagree?
2. If the developers had taken into account the possibility of not counting this day during the turn transition, then the days would be counted as you say.
3. I will not change the rules, so I will count the number of days based on the table that is displayed after the victory.

This is a fair decision. I agree. And it also reduces the hassle during checks, which is undoubtedly a plus.

In reply to IronAxe

VDV_forever

19 years ago

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IronAxe;67027

I agree. Just one thing. If I perform the last action, for example, attacking with my powerful hero, then after the battle, I am given a skill. But after that, we go to the table. QUESTION:
Do you take into account the skill gained by the hero in the last turn! Or do you take THIS data from the save before the last attack? Maybe there is an exception among the players? Some have the skill gained in the last turn counted, and for others, it is not (they forgot, for example)? Please explain this important point to everyone.

The skills gained by the hero in the last turn are taken into account after the last battle!:smile13:

Sincerely, VDV_forever

In reply to VDV_forever

Alex_R

19 years ago

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Hello VDV_forever! My save is ready to be sent. If I understood the rules correctly, I will send the file to your inbox with the name: 2_16_S_Alex_R.GM1 and, I think, a brief description of the last action? (although it's all clear there) and in what format? *.txt? or *.doc? or ...

In reply to Alex_R

VDV_forever

19 years ago

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Alex_R;67076

Hello VDV_forever!
My save is ready to be sent.
If I understand the rules correctly, I will send the file to your email address VDVforever@BK.RU with the name:
2_16_С_Alex_R.GM1
and, I think, a brief description of the last action?
(although it's all clear there)
and in what format? *.txt? or *.doc? or ...

Correction: to the email address VDV_forever@BK.RU

You understood everything correctly. As for the format, it would be preferable

In reply to VDV_forever

Alex_R

19 years ago

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Thank you, I've already figured it out.
Let's just hope others don't use the link to your address in my message...

In reply to Alex_R

IronAxe

19 years ago

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---------------------------------------------------------------
7. It is forbidden to re-hire your dismissed heroes on the same day (i.e., to use the "dismissal-re-hire" tactic);
it is also forbidden to buy heroes who died in battle (do not confuse them with those who fled)!
---------------------------------------------------------------
I've been thinking about it, and maybe I'm misunderstanding this point. If I have 8 heroes on the field, and suddenly I need to buy another one, can I dismiss a hero who didn't move at all this turn and buy a different one? Or can I dismiss a hero who did move and buy a different one? In other words, I won't be buying the one I dismissed, but someone else :) They've made so many restrictions, it's hard to understand anything.
Please answer urgently, someone who knows for sure how to correctly interpret this point, because I need to finish the first round, and this is important to know.
Here, one could understand that if a player dismisses a hero, it is forbidden to buy any of _their_ heroes on that day. But how do you buy enemy heroes? If I only had one hero and I dismissed him, can I buy another one on the same day?
Please explain this prohibition in more detail, because I don't understand it.

AmberSoler

19 years ago

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Iron, you absolutely cannot redeem any heroes on the same day! None at all!!! :D

Added 1 minute later

IronAxe;67129

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7. Prohibited: redeeming your dismissed heroes on the same day

A comprehensive definition... Don't disappoint me! ;)

In reply to AmberSoler

IronAxe

19 years ago

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AmberSoler;67152

Iron, you absolutely cannot buy back heroes on the same day! Not at all!!! :D
Added 1 minute ago
A comprehensive definition... Don't disappoint me! ;)

Well, at least someone answered, even though they don't seem to play the first games, they'll get a plus. AmberSoler, I asked the same question to Alan-y in the chat, and he replied that he doesn't quite understand the meaning of this prohibition. So, I'm not the only one who doesn't fully understand this ban.
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7. It is prohibited: to buy back your dismissed heroes on the same day
-----------
I would agree that everything is clear here, but the word "YOUR" confuses me. You didn't highlight it in black when you posted the answer, did you? :)
That is, without the word "your," everything is clear. It is prohibited to buy back dismissed heroes!
Who are "your" heroes? Does that mean there are also "other people's" heroes? Who are they?
How should I understand the word "your"? Those who I specifically dismissed? Or those who are in the tavern, it doesn't matter who they are – they are potentially also "your" – that is, mine :)

And then, as Zingel correctly wrote, I checked. Dismissed heroes don't immediately appear in the tavern. But I don't guarantee that they won't appear at some point if I, for example, need to use the "dismiss and buy back" tactic several times in a turn (5-6 times), I won't even remember who I bought back and who I didn't. Should I write it down on a piece of paper??? And how will the judge check this if he receives only a couple of saves from the day??? In other words, how will he know if the third hero I bought back was previously dismissed, if in the saves he sees only the first and fifth heroes??? And the third one was also successfully dismissed again.
But I don't care how they will check. I'm interested in whether I have the right to buy back heroes at all if I dismissed at least one hero on that day???

AmberSoler

19 years ago

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IronAxe;67158

So, I'm not the only one who doesn't quite understand this ban.

Hmm... It's as if you're playing the game for the first time...

1. You cannot fire other players' heroes. This means that all fired heroes will become your own... It's just a word that doesn't have any independent meaning.

2. If a hero who was fired on the same day appears in the tavern, you should not buy him back with the intention of continuing to use that hero, in order to avoid exploiting the bug mentioned above.

3. If a hypothetical situation arises where you need a hero, and there are 2 fired heroes in the tavern, you have the right to buy back any of them in order to subsequently buy back the "new" hero you need. The bought-back fired hero can remain in the city - there is no need to fire him again immediately, as money has been spent on him and he may be useful the next day. You are not allowed to use him, and that's it... By the way, you can take artifacts from him, this does not contradict the "infinite turn" bug.

4. You can only move one step out of the city with a hero in order to transfer artifacts, but you must spend the night in the city so as not to have a bonus turn the next day, as even one extra move can be decisive.

Just don't say you didn't know this before.

IronAxe;67158

I would agree that everything is clear here, but I am confused by the word "OUR". That is, without the word "our", everything is clear. Who are "our"? So, there are also "others"? Who are they? How to understand the word "our"? Those whom I fired? Or those who are in the tavern, it doesn't matter who - they are potentially also "our" - that is, mine :) ... And how will the judge check this if he receives only a couple of saves from the day??? In other words, how will he know if the third one bought back was previously fired by me or not, if in the saves sent he sees only, for example, the first and fifth???

***
- Comrade policeman, I am very interested, let's say I drive away from your traffic police post for half a kilometer and around the corner I run a red light... let's say there is no other respected comrade policeman there, and how will you know if I ran a red light or not? Or someone else will run a red light, huh? After all, there is no way to check everyone who runs a red light, right?
- Right. So what?
- Then why is there a traffic police service if it doesn't work? No, answer me, we are all very interested...
- Listen, sir, yesterday you bothered everyone with the question of why a Rubik's cube has six faces, when three would be enough, because you can't see more than three at once... today there is a new problem... don't play games, you don't have a car anyway. And by the way, what's your name?
- What difference does it make?
- So... I see...
- And I'm sure that you don't understand anything... For example, let's say that I am a malicious pedestrian, and I will cross the road at night in the wrong place...

***

Don't turn the discussion of the rules into a farce. It's not funny anymore...

Zingel

19 years ago

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Hello everyone. :)
So much has been written here... :)

I've completed it 2 times, and the result is the same. I think there will be several winners with identical results (the walkthrough algorithm for this map is too simple and leaves no room for variation). The computer's actions may vary, but that's +/- 1 day.

In one case, the AI messed itself up against me on its turn (and with two heroes at once); after a reload, it didn't attack even once!!! Just imagine sending your final save like that :) :)

Dismissed heroes never appear in the tavern immediately (only when the week changes, in the standard random way). Retreating with a hero and moving on the same turn is forbidden!!! (On this map, that would be absolute cheating!)
That's pretty much all; the only thing is, you'll actually have to try and finish the map with the "strongest" hero. :)
I'm not sending the save, I hope to improve the result :).

Good luck everyone! :)

Alex_R

19 years ago

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I'm a bit nervous that my NICK isn't highlighted in bold or italic font. Well, let's assume it hasn't been checked yet, but did you at least receive it?

Added after 6 hours and 8 minutes
Thanks, VDV, I'm going home!

In reply to AmberSoler

IronAxe

19 years ago

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AmberSoler;67165

A redeemed dismissed hero can stay in the town - there is no need to dismiss them again immediately, since money was spent on them and they might be useful the next day. You simply have no right to move them and that's it... By the way, you can take their artifacts; this does not contradict the "infinite turn" bug.

This won't work in the first one. You cannot hide in a Fortress there. And if you redeem a runaway hero, they will block the gates because they cannot be moved. But that's not a problem if everything is planned correctly.

AmberSoler;67165

Just don't tell me that you didn't know this before.

What didn't I know? In the third one on best of best, these restrictions weren't there. As for the fourth one, it's not even discussed there. I haven't played the second one yet.

AmberSoler;67165

***
- Officer, I'm very curious, let's say I drive half a kilometer away from your traffic checkpoint and go through a red light around the corner... let's say there is no other respected fellow officer there, how will you know if I ran the red light or not? Or if someone else runs the red light, huh? After all, there is no way to check everyone who runs a red light, right?
- Correct. So what?
- Then what is the purpose of the traffic police if they don't work? No, answer my question, we are all very interested in this...
- Listen, my dear sir, yesterday you were bothering everyone with the question of why a Rubik's Cube has six sides when three would suffice, because you can't see more than three at once anyway... today it's a new problem... stop messing around, you don't even have a car. And by the way, what is your name?
- What does that matter?
- I see... Now I get it...
- Oh, I'm sure you don't get anything... For example, let's assume that I am a malicious pedestrian, and somehow at night I cross the road in an unauthorized place...

:) I don't know why AmberSoler wrote some story here, but if anyone feels like it, read it again :) and draw a conclusion! All his examples suggest that if a PROHIBITION exists but checking its violation is IMPOSSIBLE or the OFFICER is currently ABSENT, then as a rule, people will be found who violate it. But that is one thing, and game rules are another. If a prohibition is announced in the game and its violation cannot be checked, then honest players are inherently put at a disadvantage compared to cheaters. Appeals to honesty are noble, but I'm not sure that will work on a cheater :) Just like in AmberSoler's example, where he says he is a malicious pedestrian and loves to run across the streets at night on a red light :) As we can see, the red light is no obstacle for him; I'd like to see him if a cop were standing there with a rubber baton.

AmberSoler;67165

Do not turn the discussion of rules into a farce. This is no longer funny...

He's the one who's funny - and he says it's not funny :)

Added after 11 minutes

Zingel;67184

Dismissed heroes never appear in the tavern immediately. (Only at the change of the week, in the standard random way).

What is this statement based on? I tried dismissing up to 7 heroes; in reality, nothing changes in the tavern. However, if we assume a situation where you have unlimited money and you keep dismissing and buying heroes, since the number of heroes in the game is limited, it is theoretically possible for them to repeat and the dismissed ones to show their faces in the tavern. Although in practice I haven't managed to achieve this yet. But as I said before, everything comes down to the availability of money.

Zingel;67184

Running away with a hero and moving in the same turn is forbidden!!! (On this map, this is absolute cheating!)

:) Yes, on this map, even without running away, and only by redeeming new heroes, the same thing happens (what you call cheating ;) as long as there's enough money ;) I think I'll go finish the Walkthrough too, since it turns out heroes can be both dismissed and bought. As for who does what, let the officers figure that out :) Don't think I intend to break the prohibitions. If I intended to do that, I wouldn't be prying here in the open :) Such things are done quietly (running across the road on a red light at night :)