Posts from Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition - Tactical Edition. Auto-translated

"Tidied up" the topic's header, meaning the first 1-4 posts. Now the information about the mod is up-to-date.

Added 1 hour 53 minutes ago
AgRaIl2012, al1nka, codenameray, Kasatka90, LightWarrior, Ment, Mostovik, с210нт, Ple-Sen, Vasya11, Vittorio(Danil), Warrior777, zehir12 (all who voted for: "like it, but not everything"): Please write which specific aspects of the current mod concept you didn't like (and which you did like).

I like the variety, the approach, and many other things, as I partially mentioned. I don't like the excessive reduction in speeds and the fact that unupgraded creatures are made equal in strength to upgraded ones.

By the way, I wanted to clarify something about luck. The "Elven Luck" skill (which will be renamed) will provide 100% luck (increasing the bonus from 50 to 100%). Moreover, it will be available to all classes, provided they take the "Luck" skill. However, this is a level 3 skill (following Soldier's Luck and Deadly Mishap), meaning it requires the hero to truly focus on luck, specifically in a full combat build. Also, it's easier to counter +3 luck (than +1) because the chance is noticeable, and the element of chance is more balanced.

I don't like the speed reduction being too severe.

So, you don't like units with a speed of 3? Or the absence of units with speeds of 7-9? What speed range would be acceptable?

The fact that unupgraded creatures are equal in strength to upgraded ones.

Currently, there are 3 relevant versions of a unit, previously there were 2 + 1 inferior copy. Isn't there more variety now?
Or do you simply dislike the fact that creatures don't need to be upgraded? It is planned that the role of upgrading will be replaced by focusing, i.e., increasing the bonus when building upgrades. The essence is the same: strengthening the selected unit. Additionally, improved buildings will allow creatures to transition to their alternative versions, providing more flexibility.

So, you don't like units with a speed of 3? Or the lack of units with speeds of 7-9? What speed range would be acceptable?

Well, a speed of 3 might be okay in some cases, but the absence of units with speeds of 7-9 removes an important class from the game, in my opinion.

Or do you simply not like the fact that creatures don't need to be upgraded?

Yes, that's it.

It is planned that the role of upgrading will be replaced by focusing, i.e., increasing the bonus when building upgrades.

So, there are dragons, level 7. The bonus is 1, with a Castle it's 2. Will the bonus be 3 after upgrading? Isn't that too much? Plus, to put it mildly, it's not entirely clear: if I upgrade a creature and then I need an unupgraded one for some reason (let's say I think it's more useful in the endgame), how do I downgrade it?

But there's more variety, right?

In a duel, that's all great, but in normal mode, it's better to create variety through other means, which, in my humble opinion, there are many of.

Well, a speed of 3 in some cases might not be so bad, but the absence of units with speeds of 7-9 removes an important class from the game, in my opinion.

I agree with this; an entire class of units is being removed, units to whom "anything is allowed." Unfortunately, this class is incompatible with the established tactical landscape. Chess (tactical positioning) has its price.

In any other game where the emphasis is not on tactics, or where tactics involve other things, I would be all for having a class of units that are not limited by speed at all ("flying units"). But not here.

Here's a unit with a speed of 8. How do you defend against it, how do you protect yourself from it if it runs across the entire map? Its attacks are practically unstoppable; maneuvers become meaningless against it. Archers in a corner, surrounded on all sides – this is the result of having such units in the game.

Even for a chess queen, most of the squares on the board are only accessible in 2 moves. I can't imagine chess with pieces that can move to any square in 1 move.

For example, there are dragons, level 7. Growth of 1, with a castle, 2. Will the growth be 3 after upgrading?

Fortification will not affect levels 6 and 7.

Added 3 minutes later

Plus, to put it mildly, it's not entirely clear: if I upgrade a creature, and then I need the un-upgraded version for some reason (let's say I think it's more useful in the endgame), how do I downgrade it?

That's where the significance of the choice lies. If the basic version is needed in the endgame, and the alternative version is needed for breaking through, then either you divide it into 2 stacks, or you choose one or the other. However, this question concerns not so much the alternative system itself, but rather another point: whether to allow re-upgrading.

I agree with that; an entire class of units that are “allowed to do anything” is being removed.

So what’s so critical about that? It’s enough to simply not give such high speed to large stacks (like Hydras or the same dragons, as they are in the original). Then such a unit can be relatively quickly destroyed, and the danger can be eliminated (if, of course, the opponent doesn’t come up with a way to save it by blocking your archers).

or choose one thing

That’s a pity.

That's a pity.

The concepts of "convenience" and "strategic depth" are not always compatible. It's convenient to be able to change a unit's upgrade at any time, but it doesn't create a sense of choice or its consequences.

Some flexibility will be provided by allowing the player to switch a unit's version from the base version to one of the alternative versions (i.e., only the "upgrade" will be allowed).

However, I suggest postponing this issue until the next stage, when the cities are being developed. In any case, this can be tested in practice before it is finally approved (or rejected). Perhaps this aspect will not be critical from a strategic point of view due to the high pace of the game (you won't have time to re-upgrade). In that case, re-upgrading can be allowed. There is a technical possibility to allow re-upgrading to any of the versions (including the base version).

So what's so critical about that?

Off the top of my head - an overpowered way to deal with slow neutral creatures by constantly running away and attacking with the hero.

The consequence of high speed is inevitably low physical stats. I think we can experiment with adding super-fast creatures among the neutral creatures when all stages are ready. And then we can see in practice how they will look. Fortunately, there is a large field for experimentation - the entire NCF is at our disposal.

Off the top of my head – it's an overpowered strategy for quickly eliminating slow neutral creatures by constantly kiting and attacking with the hero.

Slow neutral creatures are always easier to defeat, and the archers + speed boost + tent strategy (considering the reduced number of shots) could be even more overpowered. Just avoid placing slow neutral creatures or combining packs of such neutral creatures with other, more difficult-to-defeat types.

It's always easier to break through slow-moving neutral creatures, and the archers + speed boost + tent strategy (considering the reduced number of shots) can be even more overpowered here.

Well, it depends. The tent has 3 heals. Infinite shots require a wagon. Speed boost is expensive (10 mana), level 3, and runs out quickly (duration = spell power / 5). Slowing, on the other hand, is long-lasting (duration = spell power / 2). But when there are many neutral creatures (if they have a strength advantage), there will also be many units. Mass slowing is very expensive (20 mana) and has an area of effect. It's hard to mess up. In any case, you need to combine something to achieve a super breakthrough. And not just grab 1 fairy and take down 100 zombies with a cockroach hero.

Based on my experience (I tried a couple of games on the map), it can be very difficult to break through slow-moving creatures. Often, it's harder than breaking through fast ones. Because they are more powerful, and if they are also heavy class, it's difficult to use the speed advantage.

Also, slow-moving creatures are not all the same. In the original game, the term "slow" included units with low speed. Their initiative was also correspondingly low. In WGE, slow doesn't necessarily mean low initiative. In fact, there are few slow, low-initiative creatures here. And even fewer slow creatures that are not heavy class. Specifically, there are 3 creatures (light, with a speed of 3, and an initiative of 8 or lower): cursed zombies, plague zombies, and defiler goblins.

You need a cart for endless arrows.

I meant that one, of course, I just made a typo.
Regarding the rest: I need to play, but for now, it sounds feasible ;)

2Ment:
I would like to know which unit speeds are lacking: 7, 8, or 9?

7 doesn't change the picture much, 8 would be a good addition. 9 can be removed; units with such speed look scary.

7 won't change much, 8 would be a nice addition. 9 can be removed; units with such speed look scary.

In the case of WGE, "scary" will most likely start not with 9, but with 7, given the nature of the struggle. However, practice will put everything in its place. I will try out neutral creatures with 7 and 8 in the future.

Added 1 hour 56 minutes ago
By the way, speeds of 7 and 8 can also be obtained with native troops. To do this, it is enough to upgrade the speed aura (+1) in logistics and take boots with +1 to speed. At the same time, humans can also take native lands in the racial tree, increasing the speed of champions, seraphs, and free griffons to 9(!).

The only ones who cannot increase their speed above 7 are the undead.

Academics, due to the aura, boots, and mini-artifacts (+2), can increase the speed of some units up to 10 (ifrit, djinn, atlantes), and many - up to 9 (marble and onyx gargoyles, marids, apsaras, kshatriyas, thunderbirds, titans; as well as all golems with the golem march).

So, neutral creatures are not necessary in principle in order to obtain super-fast creatures in the game.

Added 1 hour 39 minutes ago
Approximate prices for mini-artifacts:
(5/10/15 of the corresponding resources to create mini-artifacts of levels 1/2/3)

Attack +6 (piercing) = ore + gems Defense +6 (defense) = wood + crystals Speed +2 (speed) = ore + mercury

Initiative +20% (acceleration) = sulfur Health +5 (health) = wood + ore Morale +3 (morale) = wood + ore

Luck +3 (luck) = wood Magic resistance 66% (magic defense) = wood Attack: -2 defense (armor reduction) = ore

Bonuses from mini-artifacts will be fixed (not depend on knowledge). In fact, the hero's knowledge will be equal to 20 when creating mini-artifacts. Perhaps the prices will be reduced from 5/10/15 to 2/4/6. This will depend on the balance of resources and prices for buildings. In any case, the creation of mini-artifacts will be encouraged from the very beginning of the game.

Added 11 hours 59 minutes ago
In connection with the reduced increments, it is proposed to re-scale the numerical ranges:

1 = Creature (new) 2-4 = Few 5-9 = Group 10-19 = Squad 20-49 = Many 50-99 = Horde 100-199 = Hundreds 200-499 = Swarm 500+ = Darkness

Legion (1000+) should be removed from use.

1 = Creature (new)

What's the point of making it longer then? It would be better to just use 1 or One, it's clear in all cases that it refers to 1 creature.

What's the point of making it longer then? It would have been better to just use 1 or One, in all cases it's clear that it refers to 1 creature.

Initially, it was - one.
But: Beasts - one? Fiends - one?