Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments. — Tournament Committee

numOne

12/10/2012 6:44 AM UTC

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Qwerty

Okay.
I demand that the Arbitration Committee issue a decision on the matter at /topic/9088/.

First, read the rules of operation for the Arbitration Committee carefully.

If you are interested in my opinion, I can provide personal comments regarding the ATG.

Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.

In reply to numOne

Qwerty

12/10/2012 6:53 AM UTC

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numOne

First, read the rules of operation for the AK carefully.
Then, answer this question yourself: "What does it have to do with this thread?" You are a moderator after all; you should know what off-topic means. But no, he's just "demanding." :)

We will close this poll soon due to its complete meaninglessness. If you are interested in my opinion, I can give a comment on ATG personally.

Close the poll? And is it normal that they completely rewrote the questions and attributed them to me? I asked a clear question: "Should members of the AK hold their positions for life?". Instead, the question was distorted beyond recognition, while my signature under it remained.

I demand a public decision on the question I posed.
Not a personal comment, but a public one.
If the AK is afraid of revenge from someone on the forum, and therefore remains silent – don’t be afraid, I saw those guys from Baia, they are normal, adequate people, Alex is also a pleasant person with refined artistic taste.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

numOne

12/10/2012 7:34 AM UTC

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Should we close the poll? Because completely rewriting the questions and attributing them to me – is that normal? I asked a clear question: "Should the members of the Arbitration Committee hold their positions for life?" Instead, the question was distorted beyond recognition, and my signature was left under it.

I demand a public decision on the question I posed.
Not a personal comment, but a public one.
If the Arbitration Committee is afraid of retaliation from someone on the forum, and is therefore remaining silent, don't be afraid. I've seen the guys from Bay, they are normal, reasonable people; Alex, for example, is a pleasant person with a refined creative taste.

Even in its current version, the question is meaningless, and in the version you originally proposed, "Should the members of the Arbitration Committee hold their positions for life?" – it's complete nonsense. No one here is in a position for life; we are not kings. The Arbitration Committee's regulations state: "Anyone registered on HeroesWorld can apply to join the Arbitration Committee" – and there have been no applications so far. Let me tell you, if someone applies and we reject them for one reason or another, they will have the right to initiate a vote on the forum about their inclusion – if enough forum members support them, we will include them. We are happy to have reasonable people. It's just that not everyone understands that being a member of the Arbitration Committee is not a privilege, but a voluntary decision that involves responsibility and brings no profit or gratitude.

Regarding the topic at hand.
In order to "make a decision on the issue," as you put it, the question must first be asked. You simply provided a link to Merlin's post, which is purely informative.
As an exception, I will give you a comment on the situation with ATG, my personal opinion, because it does not directly concern the Arbitration Committee, and here's why:

This game took place outside of HeroesWorld, by personal agreement between the players, who set their own rules and boundaries for acceptable behavior (they could have agreed to play with a completely open map). The forum rules and the rules of official HeroesWorld tournaments are irrelevant here. Medium gave his comment on the situation, he has no complaints about ATG's behavior, and although he decided not to continue that game, he did not refuse to play further games for money with ATG.
If we judge purely from a human point of view, ATG acted disrespectfully towards his opponent by making some moves offline without informing him; this remains on his conscience, and the other players will once again draw conclusions from this publicity.
What else is there to discuss?

Regarding Cobra's arrival ;). I did not participate in that discussion because I was an interested party. The Arbitration Committee, in its composition, made a decision; we will not analyze whether it was correct or incorrect, the main thing is that there is a decision, and ATG was not given a badge and was not added to the Black List; we conditionally believed him that it was Cobra. Let's consider that we limited ourselves to a warning.
By the way, if I remember correctly, ATG has not participated in official HeroesWorld tournaments for a very long time and has not expressed any desire to participate in the future.

Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.

In reply to Qwerty

Kilgor

12/10/2012 7:45 AM UTC

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Qwerty

Should we close the poll? Is it normal that the questions were completely rewritten and I was falsely credited as the author? I asked a clear question: "Should the members of the Arbitration Committee hold their positions for life?" Instead, the question was distorted beyond recognition, and my signature was left under it.

I demand a public decision on the question I posed.
Not a personal comment, but a public one.
If the Arbitration Committee is afraid of revenge from someone on the forum, and is therefore silent, don't be afraid; I've seen the guys from the bay, they are normal, adequate people, Alex is a pleasant person with a refined creative taste.

Qwerty, you're like a little child whose candy was taken away. The poll is nonsense. And your wording is too. Why? Hmm... you tried to give one answer a negative connotation. For example, 2 options to choose from: 1) Vigo is white and fluffy, he didn't violate anything and didn't deceive anyone, unban him. 2) Keep the ban in effect. Do you feel the bias?

Regarding the public decision... Read the topic carefully.
Pay attention to the fact that Medium was Alex's opponent and his interests were directly affected.
I'll give you an idea

Medium_HP

I have no intention of refusing to play new games with Alex, provided he agrees with my position on the rules.

P.S. Does the Arbitration Committee consider "political" requests? I think it's clear that Qwerty is trying to create discord and simply destroy HW. If it is possible to prove this convincingly, will this action be subject to a ban?

ICQ 245338291
Ник в лоби - Kilgory

In reply to Kilgor

numOne

12/10/2012 7:48 AM UTC

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Kilgor

I think it's clear that Querty is trying to create chaos and simply destroy HW.

You're absolutely right :smile36:

Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.

Qwerty

12/10/2012 8:01 AM UTC

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2 Kilgor
I think there's been some misunderstanding between us. In January, a SOD tournament will be held in Moscow. I'll be there as a spectator. Come, let's meet, there's a cafe nearby, we can sit down, discuss everything calmly, and maybe have a drink to celebrate our meeting:)). You're definitely a positive person – I've seen your streams, and the fact that you stream at all is, in my opinion, very positive.

2 NumOne
I remember watching a match between Pete and Alex in the final of some tournament. Maybe it was an unofficial tournament, I don't know.
I've seen matches where a lot of people played against Maretti. And I have the feeling that some people were watching and were completely mesmerized, you know?
It just seems like there's a certain untouchable caste who cheat, and everyone knows it, and everything is fine, and AK remains silent.
Thank you personally for the Stronghold video, it's excellent material, but some double standards in AK's activities are visible.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Qwerty

numOne

12/10/2012 8:08 AM UTC

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Qwerty

I remember watching a match between Pete and Alex in the final of some tournament. Maybe it was an unofficial tournament, I don't know.
I've seen matches where a lot of people were playing against Maretti. And I have a feeling that someone was watching and getting turned on, you know?
It just turns out that there's a certain untouchable caste who cheat, and everyone knows it, and everything is fine, and the AC says nothing.

Well, there's nothing to be done about it, I can only recommend not playing with someone you don't trust. If it concerns tournaments held on HW, please provide all the information to the AC. Even if no sanctions are taken immediately, the information may be useful in the future.

Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.

In reply to Qwerty

Kilgor

12/10/2012 8:22 AM UTC

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Qwerty

2 Kilgor
In January, a SOD tournament will be held in Moscow. I'll be there as a spectator. Come, we'll meet, there's a cafe nearby, we can sit down, calmly discuss everything, and maybe have a drink to celebrate our meeting:)). You're definitely a positive person - I've seen your streams, and the fact that you stream at all is, in my opinion, very positive.

Thanks for the kind words. I would gladly come, but I live very far away (where bears walk around the city, literally a month ago, a bear was in the city center near an entertainment center:) ), so, unfortunately...

And regarding your posts... I understand that you want to defend your clanmate, and maybe he does put on good feasts and is a nice guy, but here he has shown himself to be terrible.

ICQ 245338291
Ник в лоби - Kilgory

Qwerty

12/11/2012 5:42 AM UTC

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“V. PUTIN: If you’ll allow me, I’ll state my opinion right away. I am confident that the vast majority of those present in this hall will support me. Of course, we must be firm and consistent, but we must always act only within the framework of the law. This is not an easy task for investigative bodies, for preliminary investigation bodies, and for the courts – to work competently and professionally and to bring the case to a final resolution. Why am I saying this? Because in many cases involving corruption and, in general, in the economy, the process of proving guilt is quite complex, and it is impossible to issue court decisions and sentences simply because we are sure that a person has committed a crime, but we have not been able to gather enough evidence; otherwise, we will again regress to 1937 – that is the crux of the matter.” Meeting with trusted representatives December 10, 2012, 17:15 Moscow, http://президент.рф/news/17108

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

RiMpel2

12/11/2012 6:19 AM UTC

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:)

Pit for LM

12/11/2012 6:57 AM UTC

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Qwerty

Essentially, the question is:
1. Should members of the Arbitration Committee (AC) hold their positions for life?

The meaning of the question isn't clear: should - for life? It sounds like a lifetime sentence. What kind of punishment is that for? Who owes what to whom?

Qwerty

2. Should AC members be elected?

Being elected would be great.
Let's look at the functions of the AC:

Monitoring compliance with the rules of the "Heroes 3 - ONLINE" section.
Resolving controversial situations in ranked games.
Maintaining the "Blacklist" section.
Providing advice to players on individual issues.

The main task of the AC (approximately 90%) is advising players and resolving situations not covered by the rules.
This leads to the following key requirements for AC members:
- high gaming and judging skills and competence,
- adequacy,
- authority.
The forum's trust is very important, but it is not the only requirement.
I can’t speak for others, but I personally receive 2-5 questions daily about the rules and some difficulties in games; I review game saves 1-2 times per week. Those who work in the AC must know and be able to do these things, rather than referring people to other, more competent colleagues. A judge is the final instance; they should be able to make a correct decision independently and objectively. In fact, player trust and the judge's authority are based on the fairness of their decisions.
It is difficult when a good person who enjoys the forum's trust joins the AC, but lacks sufficient qualifications. They need to first explain the rules and what constitutes a violation, tell them how to resolve a block, etc., and then they will vote "as required." We have had such cases, which was hard for the player himself, and people refused. It is better if a player first reaches a certain level on their own; only then will their vote carry weight when judges in the AC vote.
Currently, our regulations state:

Inclusion in the AC is decided by the current composition of the AC. Anyone registered on HeroesWorld can apply to join the AC...

Yes, we abandoned periodic elections. The reasons:
- we are human, and unexpected circumstances may arise for everyone; this could happen a week after the election,
- there isn’t a queue of people wanting to work here; you don't get fed with delicacies in the AC, mostly just crap,
- the AC's work is based on the forum's trust; if an unfair decision is made, you won't be able to stop the avalanche of dissatisfaction with excuses like "you chose us"...

The AC should be updated and is being updated; Gomunguls recently joined the AC. I would also like to see some other strong players and active users in the team; we offered it to some, and we are gradually looking for more; people grow.

it is impossible to issue court decisions, verdicts only because we are sure that a person has committed a crime, but were unable to gather evidence.

Apparently, if 80% of the forum supports the AC's decision on a particular issue, then there is enough evidence.

To RiMpel2. We are glad about your return. But it would be good if you explained to the players why and for what reason you "abandoned" the judge and almost 30 tournament players. And at least apologize. People were slightly surprised: /topic/at/557938/

numOne

12/11/2012 7:02 AM UTC

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Qwerty

"V. PUTIN: If you allow me, I will immediately express my opinion. I am sure that the vast majority of those in the hall will support me. Of course, we must be tough and consistent, but we must always act only within the framework of the law. This is a difficult task for investigative bodies, inquiry agencies, and courts – to work competently, professionally, and to bring the case to a final decision. Why am I saying this? Because in many corruption-related offenses, generally in the economy, the process of proving guilt is quite complex, and passing court rulings, court verdicts just because we are sure that a person committed a crime but could not gather enough evidence is not allowed, otherwise we will slide back into the year 1937 – that is the crux of the matter."
Meeting with authorized representatives

December 10, 2012, 17:15 Moscow, http://президент.рф/news/17108

"If you allow me, I will immediately express my opinion. I am sure that the vast majority of those on the forum will support me. Of course, we must be tough, consistent, and act only within the framework of the rules, but we cannot neglect basic logic either, comparing the evidence, even if circumstantial, to obtain a clear picture. This is a difficult task for the AC – to work competently, professionally, and to bring the case to a final decision. Why am I saying this? Because in many cases of rule violations, generally in Heroes 3 the process of proving guilt is quite complex, sometimes decisions can only be made because the AC is sure that a person violated the rules, since 100% evidence will never be available here, especially if it concerns maphack, otherwise we will slide back to 2010 – to the case with ATG, that is the crux of the matter. And please unban Oelm."

Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.

In reply to Pit for LM

RiMpel2

12/11/2012 7:10 AM UTC

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Pit for LM

To RiMpel2. We are glad you're back. But it would be nice if you explained to the players why and for what reason you "bailed out" on the judge and almost 30 tournament players. And at least apologize. People were a little surprised: /topic/at/557938/

Due to some life circumstances, there would have been certain difficulties in completing the tournament normally. Given that the forum so readily defended the cheater, I decided that there was no point in going all-out to continue the tournament, because people here really love being cheated: :rolleyes:

I apologize to comrade Gomunguls for leaving this task with him, and I express my gratitude to him and those who helped complete the tournament.

In reply to Pit for LM

Qwerty

12/11/2012 7:15 AM UTC

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Pit for LM

Quote:
"it is impossible to issue court rulings, court verdicts, just because we are sure that a person committed a crime, but we could not gather enough evidence."
Apparently, if 80% of the forum supports the Arbitration Committee's decision on a particular issue, then there is enough evidence.

I am very sorry that you think so. Confidence and evidence are different things. This is what the elected (not appointed) President of the Russian Federation said. Unfortunately, at some point, the Arbitration Committee stopped understanding this. There is nothing to say about combining investigation and court in one structure.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер