Posts from Is Cobra coming back for a second time?

Repost from http://www.heroeswt.net/forum//topic/218/

Alex or the Second Coming of Cobra?

Dedicated to the 100th anniversary of the first issue of the "Pravda" newspaper...
Hello, dear comrades!
Instead of sitting and writing a report (or doing practice problems), I am forced to start this topic today.
As we remember, there was already an incident of map hacking during Alex's stream – back then, it was supposedly Cobra who was visiting.
It's interesting who was visiting and playing as Alex this time...
Preamble. The game is AlexTheGreat against Medium. As far as I understand, it's a game for money.
So, they loaded the save. They are playing. Then, as I understand it, Medium had to leave the computer, and they saved.
The plot. And that's when the interesting part begins. AlexTheGreat writes in the chat that he is going to "check the Utopia" (read our conversation below). He immediately receives a warning from the viewers (DD, Stinger, and I were watching the stream, but Stinger was stepping away at that moment, and DD and I, communicating via Skype, saw everything perfectly). He ignores the warning. He loads the save against the computer, enters the Utopia (sees that it is large).
This is essentially what happened. Here are the chat logs from DD's side.

[17:52:18] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] I'm going to check what's in the Utopia, it's interesting, I'll take it next turn anyway
[17:52:37] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] I think I should have enough stats and expert-level lands now
[17:53:34] iDD> [to AlexTheGreat] this is map hacking
[17:54:00] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] (censored - equivalent - damn)...
[17:54:02] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] don't be ridiculous
[17:54:24] MERLIN> [to AlexTheGreat, =Stinger=, iDD] this is pure map hacking
[17:55:40] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] yeah, I decided not to take it
[17:55:47] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] I'll think about it later
[17:56:25] iDD> [to AlexTheGreat] how can you play for money and open saves?)
[17:56:27] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] it's just a bit weird, 3-4...
[17:56:32] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] no, I didn't open anything
[17:56:35] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] what (censored - equivalent - nonsense) are you talking about?
[17:56:42] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] are you really f...?
[17:56:47] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] what f... are you saying?
[17:56:47] iDD> [to AlexTheGreat] I saw you open the save
[17:56:51] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] d..., that's it
[17:56:54] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] enough
[17:57:01] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] I opened the save before that
[17:57:08] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] when I was showing it to Stinger from 111 to 117
[17:57:12] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] every day with comments
[17:57:18] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] that also counts as opening it
[17:57:23] MERLIN> [to AlexTheGreat, =Stinger=, iDD] you checked the Utopia
[17:57:27] MERLIN> [to AlexTheGreat, =Stinger=, iDD] this is map hacking
[17:57:37] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] I'll go into it anyway
[17:57:45] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] what difference does it make, whether I checked it or not
[17:57:47] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] I really don't understand
[17:57:53] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] does it make a difference, does anything change?
[17:57:58] iDD> [to AlexTheGreat] really, what difference – now or in a few turns)
[17:58:10] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] (censored - equivalent - damn), I specifically decided to do it in front of you to show you, and you're just trying to make me look bad
[17:58:16] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] f... b...
[17:58:19] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] Dima, are you o...?
[17:58:22] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] what are you talking about?
[17:58:28] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] I'll go into it this turn anyway
[17:58:36] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] of course, if the Utopia is large, it's very risky to take it
[17:58:45] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] then I'll have to think about how to proceed
[17:58:59] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] but I will go into it 100%
[17:59:19] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] okay, you just want to make me look bad, I understand
[17:59:34] AlexTheGreat> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=, iDD] d... I'll give another one of you bloodsuckers a stream and trust you with something
[17:59:38] =Stinger=> [to MERLIN, iDD] What's up, did Alik get caught?
[17:59:40] =Stinger=> [to MERLIN, iDD] I didn't see
[17:59:45] server> AlexTheGreat has left (22 players)
[18:00:01] server> AlexTheGreat joined (23 players)
[18:00:09] =Stinger=> [to MERLIN, iDD] he checked something again before taking it or what
[18:00:18] iDD> [to =Stinger=] yeah
[18:00:19] MERLIN> [to =Stinger=, iDD] the Utopia
[18:00:23] =Stinger=> [to MERLIN, iDD] lol
[18:00:28] iDD> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=] pure map hacking
[18:00:28] =Stinger=> [to MERLIN, iDD] it doesn't change anything
[18:00:31] MERLIN> [to =Stinger=, iDD] the game is for money
[18:00:36] =Stinger=> [to MERLIN, iDD] damn
[18:00:59] =Stinger=> [to MERLIN, iDD] well, he did the same thing sometimes for fun, I told him it was cheating)
[18:01:10] =Stinger=> [to MERLIN, iDD] like – take it or not, let's check
[18:01:13] iDD> [to MERLIN, =Stinger=] but now it's for money
[18:01:21] =Stinger=> [to MERLIN, iDD] yeah, that's true

Judging by the way it's written, it's definitely Cobra.

my laptop even died... :D :D :D Happy anniversary, Pravditsy (it's not relevant anymore, and I didn't read anything new).

Added 4 minutes later

my laptop even died... :D :D :D Happy anniversary, Pravditsy (it's not relevant anymore, and I didn't read anything new).

Or is this a NEW story?

...

Or is this a NEW story?

Yes, Misha, it's a new one...

on Saturday evening, we had a blast in the VТ chat :D, thanks!

Recently, Forrest returned, probably specifically for this occasion, although after the last incident when the Great One was saved by Cobra, he promised not to return. Now, let's say that Alexa should be banned for cheating, and Forrest will leave us again. I've played with Alexa several times, and after the games, I looked at the saves (and especially the replays). I had a strong feeling that he was peeking... but it's hard to prove. I just decided for myself that he's cheating and it's better not to play with him.

Cheating, in my understanding, is deceiving an opponent to gain an advantage in the game. In this case, nothing like that happened. Any deception implies the hope of not being exposed; who would cheat in front of three spectators acting as judges?
I don't think there was any intention to gain an advantage either; the profit in this case was too small, it was just a small time-saving measure that would have been spent later in the game.
There was a disregard for minor (in Alex's opinion) nuances of the rules due to an inability to overcome his own curiosity.
In general, the tendency to disregard minor details and curiosity is common to many people, including myself. But in a game, the interests of two people (at least) are involved, and neither of them can decide for themselves what is a minor detail and what is not. In this regard, I believe that the rules should be followed meticulously, and if they are violated, it should be done by agreement with the opponent (at least).
Therefore, I decided not to continue this game.
I have no intention of refusing to play new games with Alex, provided that he agrees with my position regarding the rules.

Is opening an unplayed save and performing any active actions within it considered maphacking? Yes, it is.
As for whether maphacking is a cheat or not—everyone can decide that for themselves. In this case, we are talking about creating an advantage (even if a negligible one), since Alex has more time to make a decision. And if the Dragon Utopia had been a minimum-level area and could be broken by a quick battle—then Alex would have seen what it gives (since that is exactly what he intended to do—check the contents). Alex did not cheat in his own understanding. Perhaps, from Medium's point of view, this is also not cheating.
Essentially, I would like to hear the community' same opinion on whether it is permissible for one of the opponents to open an unplayed save at all. And another thing—what exactly is cheating?
Otherwise, with similar logic, one could conclude that if you drank a bottle of vodka but didn't want to drink it (and no one forced you)—then you remained sober...

Added after 4 minutes

Therefore, I decided not to continue this game.
I have no intention of refusing new games with Alex, provided that he agrees with my position regarding the rules.

Then—what prevents continuing this match? After all, Alex "did not gain an advantage"... You would just keep playing...

The answer to the question can be logically found before the word "Therefore."

Then – what prevents continuing this game? After all, Alex didn't gain an advantage... They could continue playing...

This question should probably have been asked by himself.

Merlin is "defending" Alex (or his guest :D), and Medium has "no complaints" about Alex – you are on the right track.

Information regarding the forum rules.

Black mark is a Medal indicating a user's violation of the Tournament rules.
It is awarded for falsifying Tournament results, i.e., for any unfair actions, both by players and by organizers and judges.
The forum also has a penalty system - points are awarded for violating the forum rules. Among other things, 50 penalty points are given for falsifying results in organized events (Competitive matches, Tournaments, contests).

What is meant by unfair actions? I won't list everything, as people come up with all sorts of things... The main ones:
- cheating - i.e., using cheat codes in an online game;
- maphack - hacking the map - this is done not only with cheat codes, but also by viewing it in the editor, opening saved games of an unfinished match, playing offline, using information from broadcasts...;
- all kinds of deceptions of the opponent - taking a rest at a level when the normal level is sufficient and not taking a rest when it is needed... disconnecting during a losing game while simulating a disconnection... disconnecting during a battle if it is not going as planned...
- postponing a game with the subsequent "inability" to finish it...
- violation of agreements regarding the game (for example, an agreement to play to two wins, we win the first and disappear until the end of the round, hoping that the organizer will award the victory in the match)...
- cloning (i.e., creating a second/third account on the forum), as well as one player playing under their own nickname and the nickname of another real person (relative/acquaintance/colleague)...;
- editing templates without agreeing with the opponent;
- using unapproved additional programs and text editors without agreeing with the opponent...
- and so on.

Actually, yes, what is written in the topic is déjà vu.
Two years ago, everything was proven, those who carefully studied the materials at the time understood everything perfectly, we should have held a poll on the forum back then...

Information regarding the forum rules.

Black mark is a Medal indicating a user's violation of the Tournament rules.
It is awarded for falsifying Tournament results, i.e., for any unfair actions, both by players and by organizers and judges.
The forum also has a penalty system - points are awarded for violating the forum rules. Among other things, 50 penalty points are given for falsifying results in organized events (Competitions, Tournaments, Contests).

What is meant by unfair actions? I won't list everything, as people come up with all sorts of things... The main points:
- cheating - i.e., using cheat codes in an online game;
- maphack - hacking the map - this is done not only with cheat codes, but also by viewing it in the editor, opening saved files of an unfinished game, playing offline, using information from broadcasts...;
- all kinds of deceptions of the opponent - taking a rest at a level when the normal level is sufficient and not taking a rest when it is needed... disconnecting during a losing game, simulating a disconnection... disconnecting during a battle if it is not going as planned...
- postponing a game with the subsequent "inability" to finish it...
- violation of agreements regarding the game (for example, an agreement to play to two wins, winning the first and disappearing before the end of the round with the hope that the organizer will award the victory in the match)...
- cloning (i.e., creating a second/third account on the forum), as well as one player playing under their own nickname and the nickname of another real person (relative/acquaintance/colleague)...;
- editing templates without agreeing with the opponent;
- using unapproved additional programs and text editors without agreeing with the opponent...
- etc.

Actually, yes, what is written in the topic is déjà vu.
Two years ago, everything was proven, those who carefully studied the materials at the time understood everything perfectly, we should have made a poll on the forum back then...

A poll would not have given Petya anything. Most people believed that nothing was proven. Back then, it was largely a matter of faith (whether to believe Alex or not, that it wasn't him). Now, many believe that there is nothing wrong with it.

Here, if anyone needs it, a fundamental decision from the Arbitration Committee on this issue is needed, not a Poll.

Two years ago, everything was proven; those who carefully reviewed the case materials at the time understood everything perfectly. It's a shame we didn't conduct a forum poll back then...

If grandma had wheels, she'd be a wagon...

Exactly. At that time, the illegitimacy of the AK was documented, as well as the Schism of HeroesWorld into supporters, opponents, and those who couldn't care less. Even though the main instigator of the anti-AK trend, Vic, has retired to "heroic" retirement, some people from that group are still in the know and are also HeroesWorld representatives.

Pit for LM understood ≠ ALL Heroes players understood.

I ask you to remember and be aware.

As for the matter at hand — what happened is a violation of the rules but is by no means grounds for a WMD. The spirit of the game was not violated. Although, of course, it can be viewed as disrespect toward the opponent.

Indeed, it was at that time that the illegitimacy of the AK was recorded.

"Illegitimacy" was recorded due to Alex's authority, as his defenders could not believe that such a thing was possible. The main argument was: "It cannot be." Personally, this case showed me that we made absolutely the right decision last time. It would be interesting to hear from the defenders at that time about this situation.

I played with Alex several times, and after the games, I looked at his saves (and especially replays). I had a strong feeling that he was peeking... but it's hard to prove. I just decided for myself that he's cheating and it's better not to play with him.

I think so too. And arguments like "Cobra was watching on my computer" are not valid. If you let anyone enter cheat codes on your computer, find the courage to admit to cheating.