Posts from To Vigo or not to Vigo? That is the question.

Doubtful. I can’t evaluate based on comparing levels with myself.

Thank you for your responses.
Information about you will be available tomorrow, once Pete gets to his computer.
To all other players who have something to say in defense or accusation, please express your opinions in this thread. Be concise and to the point, and preferably have some confirmation to support your words.
All irrelevant posts will be deleted.

How often do you describe the army compositions in final reports? How often do you describe hero stats in the finale? How do you usually write the number of creatures in reports? For example:

From the outside, the answers to simple questions seem very strange. How can one struggle to assess their own skill level, and how, with constant gameplay, can they not name a few people who play at their level? It's a paradox.

How often in your reports do you describe army ratios in endgames? How often do you describe hero stats in the endgame?

How do you usually write the number of creatures in your reports? For example:

I rarely write ratios, only if it was a really interesting match or an interesting endgame. Hero stats are also rare, for the same reasons. I write the number of creatures differently depending on which version I'm playing (many, horde, up to 49, up to 99, etc.). And in general, I can call a stack in different ways ))) A pile, fatty, greasy, thick stack of freaks ))) Or I can officially name them by template, it all depends on my mood! ))

Added after 6 minutes

From the outside, these are very strange answers to simple questions.
How can you have difficulty assessing your own skill level, and how can you not name a few people who play at your level when you play regularly? That's a paradox =)

Well, aren't you a player.......y. You've calculated your skill level.... Well, show everyone your skill then! Oh no, first say it on a scale, then show it, they'll judge )
I've played against the World Champion and against simple guys who never played online, and I can't assess my skill level ))) The Champion said I'm a noob (which is understandable), while others didn't understand at all how ГО can be taken so early or how a Dragon Utopia can be taken on day 131 (although now the pros take it easily on day 2, and on Jebus Cross even on day 1). How can you assess a skill level )))))

So, what difference does it make who helped him or is helping him – I don’t understand. I read that there was an accusation of maphacking – that’s a completely different matter. Does anyone have any concrete evidence? Because without it, you can’t ban or accuse someone of something you can’t even understand…
I don’t see transparency in the decision-making process on the forum. Please give me a link where the powers of the Arbitration Committee (AK) are specified. Simply put, if there is a specific list of rights, there should also be a list of some responsibilities. I’m not talking about organizational issues; I’m talking about many other things…

And about what, anyone can honestly say, without being dishonest, whether they play well, poorly, excellently, averagely, or not at all. For example, I play "not very well," and if someone wants to express it in numbers, let's say it's 3-4 on a scale. If I played normally, it would be 4-5, and above average would be 5-6.

1) It's hard to assess the level of play – it seems to be the first thing that comes to mind – "how good am I?", and if you haven't thought about that... it's very strange. Besides, you have such a wide range of opponents – it's easy to find your level... 2) Again, you play a lot, but even if there aren't players at your level, you could say, for example, "Well, I don't know, but I'm better than 7z and Noobhim, but weaker than Ikhtiandr or Tvarina," and that would be an answer. Conclusion... All the answers seem more like evasions and are in the same vein... 3) Regarding proof – it seems to me that the AK (Anti-Cheat) team has nothing better to do, and they're thinking, "Should we ban someone for cheating?" (Sarcasm) There are strong and intelligent players there who can assess the game, the approximate style, and so on – and compare games and draw the appropriate conclusion...

3) Regarding the evidence – it seems to me that the AC has nothing better to do, and they're just thinking, should we ban someone for cheating? (Sarcasm)
There are strong and intelligent players who can assess the gameplay, the style, and so on – and compare games and draw the appropriate conclusions...

The AC are also people, and they also make mistakes.

I don't see any transparency in the decision-making process on the forum – please provide a link to where the powers of the AK are specified... Simply put, if there is a specific list of rights, there should also be a list of certain obligations – I’m not talking about organizational issues; I mean many other things...

Please:
/topic/at/264008/

What kind of transparency do you want in the decision-making process? In matters concerning bans and map hacks, the AK can only rely on its purely subjective opinion, based on experience, so to speak. Any accusation in Heroes 3 online can be refuted (unless it was blatant cheating that is easy to track), this has been proven more than once, but when enough of these suspicions accumulate, they can all be combined into a certain picture, quite understandable for any more or less experienced player. All materials available on Vigo will be provided upon his request, which came only now; apparently, everything was fine before.

And generally, for your information, anyone who wants to declare the actions of the AK as illegitimate has the right to create a corresponding topic and hold a vote. If the forum votes to dissolve the AK, we will resign with peace of mind. Believe me, constantly digging into all of this is not the most pleasant activity, and it won't bring you any honor. The AK was created solely to make the forum cleaner, to help newcomers, and to weed out unreliable players, thereby giving the organizers grounds to deny them access to tournaments. That’s all. There is no universal conspiracy here.

Regarding the defense, I was waiting for a convenient moment.

I understand, you waited for an entire month, and finally, a convenient moment arrived. Personally, I was very surprised; at least some kind of reaction should have been shown immediately.

I can ask the same of YOU - why didn't you bring the accusation and the decision to public attention, as you did with other "cheaters" and "dishonest" players from your list?

Why wasn't it made public? You look very bad in this whole story. You already have a not-so-good reputation on the forum, you have difficulty finding opponents for games, and approximately half of the complaints in the season are directed at you. And after this discussion, you will indeed have to leave. If you had continued to quietly "beat up noobs," no one would have bothered you. Falsification of tournament results. What is meant by this? That some of the tournament games, posted under your name and with your nickname, were played by another player. Not helping or advising, but actually playing, from beginning to end. This is called player substitution; it's easy to do online, but difficult to detect. Evidence was collected for a long time; there is a lot of it, but people don't like to read long posts. However, the story resembles a multi-part detective story and is even interesting in places. The situation is further complicated by the fact that after vitalic was awarded the World Championship, both of these players disappeared for a long time. Vigo slowly began to return about a year ago. Therefore, we will mainly recall past achievements.

Series 1. Statistics of Vigo's games in the season and tournaments on HW and HP.

From approximately 150 reports of Vigo’s games in the season and tournaments, we can conclude that his statistics in the season are worse than his tournament statistics. That is, his level of play in tournaments is significantly higher. This is a very strange result; other players who actively play in ranked matches and tournaments have either similar or better results (depending on which opponents the player chooses in the season). This is confirmed by empirical data. When I calculate a preliminary ranking (based only on the season), some players end up at the top (recently – Gomunguls, Maretti), but when I add tournament games, Sevvensan comes out on top, who had practically not played in tournaments until this season.

On HW, Vigo and vitalic started playing at the end of 2007. They came here from HP.
The skill levels of these two players differ greatly. Vitalic plays much stronger. Here here are collected reports of these players - in the season and tournaments.
And here is a list of Vigo's games on HW 2007-2009.

Winter 2007-08.

22 games in ranked mode - 10th place
15 wins (Dubrovin Pavel, Kamikaze-2, Volland-3, SpiriTT-2, StickyFingaz, MYT@R'-2, Loi-3, Captain),
7 losses (SS-D, Dekontaminator-3, vitalic, Dubrovin Pavel, Mizrael)

1 loss in a tournament - Uran

Nothing surprising can be seen – victories over weak players and newcomers, defeats against stronger players, losing to Uran in a tournament, one of the strongest players at that time.

Spring 08.

10 games in ranked mode - 22nd place
6 wins (Loi, Dekontaminator, Deemer, TheRock, Dom Scorbi-2),
4 losses (Mizrael, Uran, Dubrovin Pavel, Colorado)

3 games in tournaments -
1 win against Denminator
2 losses - invisible, Uran

Total for winter-spring 2008 in ranked mode:
21 wins - 11 losses - 66% wins

in tournaments: 1 win - 3 losses, 25%

The spring statistics are not encouraging. Tournaments don't go well, and things aren't going smoothly in the season either.

Summer 08.

27 games in ranked mode - 4th place
24 wins (Dom Scorbi-2, RetroFM, Deemer-2, Loi-2, Trianon, Sem_56-3, Pavel(517), QwerVital, LeBron (loss), Blacpoint-2, Kirill - the conqueror, STAWR, WisTrit, StickyFingaz, Javdet (loss), ALONE, Smoke_mk (loss), Soulofghost).
3 losses (RetroFM, vitalic, Lost Paradise)

And 2 wins over scorp in MP. Vigo played for the HP team.

Things started to improve. The victory over scorp in the Interportal was extremely unexpected for our team. We rated Vigo’s skill level as below average, and it was very strange that everything worked out so easily.

Autumn 08.

22 games in ranked mode - 7th place
17 wins (Kreg Xek, Blacpoint, Tyazhely Sluchai, Slav4eG-2, SEM_56-2, loi-2, AdMakarov, marajan-3, Kluka, Grishin Stanislav-2, Hermit),
5 losses (Felix, scorp, Kreg Xek, Dubrovin Pavel)

4 wins in clan wars - WISTRIT, Blacpoint, Mizrael, Vbn

In ranked matches, Vigo continues to "beat up noobs" and lose to stronger players. But in tournaments, things are already going well – 4 wins and no losses, although his opponents there were Mizraeel and Vbn. Well, he's on a roll; it happens.

Winter 08-9.

26 games in ranked mode - 11th place
18 wins (DeathMaster, Marajan, Hermit, Deemer, White Lizard, Kash-2, Tyazhely Sluchai, Zloy Romantik, AZ, Zloy Romantik-3, Hermit, SEM_56, Djede, Lider1, Gendalf78)
8 losses (Tyazhely Sluchai, Pit - in sake of LM, numOne-3, Oelm, Zloy_romantik, Dubrovin Pavel)

In tournaments: 4 wins - Smoke_mk (clan war), Dudge (clan war), But4er (Jebus Cross), Dreamcatcher (Jebus Cross)

It’s strange; the picture doesn’t change – stable defeats against average players at that time and fairly average statistics in ranked matches, but in tournaments – 100% result.

Spring 09.

10 games in ranked mode - 5th place (games from Jebus were not included in the ranking)
9 wins (Zloy_Romantik, Ferz' 17, CastleGAZ, Quell-2, SEM 56 - 2, Imperator Konstantin, geroj)
1 loss (SEM_56)

10 games in tournaments
2 losses to vitalic on Jebus
2 draws - Javdet and Erdem in Best
6 wins (Kash in team and Best, Mizrael (Best), Pit (Jebus), Alone and Kebazavr - team)

Total for summer 08 - spring 09
- in ranked: 67 wins - 18 losses - 79%
- in tournaments: 16 wins - 2 strange draws and 2 losses to Vitalic
We exclude losses to Vitalic; we get 94% wins.

In the season, Vigo preferred to play with newcomers. Many nicknames are completely forgotten; these players haven’t played for a long time.
The situation is the same now. Hardly anyone plays against Vigo in the season; it’s only possible to catch noobs. Look and compare how many announcements there are in "Let's Agree" and how many reports there are.
Therefore, I will allow myself to remove victories over complete beginners from the list of ranked matches and very weak players. I will also remove losses to vitalic.

Summer 08 – out of 24 wins – Dom Scorbi-2, RetroFM, Deemer-2, Loi-2, Trianon, Sem_56-3, Pavel(517), QwerVital, LeBron (loss), Blacpoint-2, Kirill - the conqueror, STAWR, WisTrit, StickyFingaz, Javdet (loss), ALONE, Smoke_mk (loss), Soulofghost
I leave RetroFM, Loi-2, LeBron (loss), Blacpoint-2, StickyFingaz, Javdet (loss), ALONE, Smoke_mk (loss) – about 10, and 3 of them were due to opponents giving up.

For autumn 08, out of 17 wins (Kreg Xek, Blacpoint, Tyazhely Sluchai, Slav4eG-2, SEM_56-2, loi-2, AdMakarov, marajan-3, Kluka, Grishin Stanislav-2, Hermit), I leave 5 (Blacpoint, Slav4eG-2, loi-2). Sem was very weak at that time. In general, Slavcheg too.

For winter 09 – out of 18 wins (DeathMaster, Marajan, Hermit, Deemer, White Lizard, Kash-2, Tyazhely Sluchai, Zloy Romantik, AZ, Zloy Romantik-3, Hermit, SEM_56, Djede, Lider1, Gendalf78), only victories over Leader1 and Sem are significant.

In spring, out of 8 (Ferz' 17, CastleGAZ, Quell-2, SEM 56 - 2, Imperator Konstantin, geroj) – only 2 against Sem.

In total, there are a maximum of 19 wins against opponents who are more or less average. **NOT A SINGLE game victory over a strong opponent (only due to giving up).**

Losses: RetroFM, Lost Paradise, Felix, scorp, Kreg Xek, Dubrovin Pavel-2, Tyazhely Sluchai, Pit - in sake of LM, numOne-3, Oelm, Zloy_romantik-2, SEM_56 - 18

19 - 18, i.e., about 50% in ranked mode, if we don’t take into account the easy wins from noobs.

But in tournaments, almost 100% result, and the opponents are mostly not weak noobs:
2 wins over scorp in MP
6 wins in clan wars - WISTRIT, Blacpoint, Mizrael, Vbn, Smoke_mk, Dudge
3 wins in Jebus Cross - But4er, Dreamcatcher, Pit
3 wins in team tournament - Kash, Alone, Kebazavr
2 wins in Best - Kash, Mizrael

Let's try to understand why this is happening.

Series 2. Analysis of Vigo's reports.
The analysis was conducted in two directions:
- level of play. According to the reports, the player's level in tournaments is significantly higher than in the league.
- analysis of the linguistic features of the text. The style and vocabulary of tournament and league reports differ significantly; they were written by different people.
There is a lot of interesting information in the topic Seasonal CUP spring 2009 on HP.
I briefly wrote about it on the Portal on August 15, 2009, at 20:15: http://heroesportal.net/tavern/?id=265334&pagenum=11; read it there, I won't repeat it.
There is a compilation that testifies to:
a) the different level of Vigo's play in the league and tournaments,
b) and the fact that Vigo's tournament reports were written by vitalic.
If you're not lazy, you will find the reports of both in the attached file in the previous post. Read them; you don't need to be a linguist; everything is obvious. Moreover, given the recent events on ДжОбус, we have all become experts in linguistic analysis.

The analysis of the reports provides a list of victims of Vigo being replaced by vitalic (starting with the summer Interportal):

scorp 21.07.2008 Summer Interportal HP vs HV
WISTRIT 16.10.2008 Tournament "Wars of Clans: online (Autumn 2008)"
Mizrael 22.11.2008 Tournament "Wars of Clans: online (Autumn 2008)"
vbn 30.11.2008 Tournament "Wars of Clans: online (Autumn 2008)"
Smoke_mk 08.12.2008 Tournament "Wars of Clans: online (Autumn 2008)"
Dudge 08.12.2008 Tournament "Wars of Clans: online (Autumn 2008)"
But4er 13.01.2009 Tournament Jebus Cross
Dreamcatcher 24.02.2009 Tournament Jebus Cross
Kash 11.04.2009 Team Tournament: Spring 2009
Mizrael 12.04.2009 Tournament Best of HeroesWorld
Pit for LM 16.04.2009 Tournament Jebus Cross
Alone 18.04.2009 Team Tournament: Spring 2009
Dirty_Plaeyr - Clan War: Summer 2009

Of course, the list is incomplete. Apparently, vitalic could not/did not have time to write some of the reports for some reason, but it was necessary to post the victory urgently. Then a post from Vigo appeared:

Report later.

However, the report did not appear later.

Regarding the legal significance of linguistic analysis.
I suppose that not everyone knows that what was written above is called "Author Identification Expertise" - the study of a text (most often printed) to establish authorship or obtain any information about the author and the conditions for creating the text document.
In this case, the linguistic features of the text are studied.
One of the tasks of such expertise is identification - verification of authorship:
- Confirmation of the authorship of a specific person
- Exclusion of the authorship of a specific person
- Verification that the author of the entire text was the same person.
- Verification that the person who wrote the text is also its real author.
Texts are studied at five levels: punctuation, spelling, syntax, lexical-phraseological, and stylistic. Fragmentary analysis is possible when part of the text is written by one person, and attempts were made to conceal authorship.
I will not go into details; this is a separate, interesting, but very extensive topic.
Author identification expertise is currently carried out by many law firms; its results are evidence in court, along with forensic medical examination, ballistic examination, and handwriting examination, etc.
In our case, there is a lot of material (usually, a text of at least 500 words is required), the authors did not try to conceal authorship, the differentiation of the language skills and characteristics of each person is not difficult, and any linguistics student can handle the analysis in a couple of hours.

Series 3. Comparative analysis of games based on save files.
We have a lot of material in terms of save files. When suspicions arose about maphacking by vitalic, save files from grateful opponents of vitalic started arriving en masse.
I will post two games by Vigo, one with Alone in the tournament, and another with SEM_56 in the season game. They were played at almost the same time. And it's funny that the castles are identical. It makes comparison even easier.

Vigo (blue, Castle, Valeska, Valeska) def Alone (red, Swamp, Tazar, Tazar) 2sm4d(3) 126
First turn, Valeska gets logistics and visits the stable, buys Feast. On the third turn, he reveals an external dwelling for angels – hooray! On turn 116, he starts taking them; he takes them, then attacks an orcish horde for experience; there turned out to be almost the maximum number of them. These two battles consumed a ballista, a horse, 6 swordsmen, 23 archers, 30 spearmen, and 30 dryads. Valeska became level 8. He built horses with a citadel on the first castle; the very good market helped. The opponent has his main secondary resource and one more. On the second turn, Valeska breaks through to the treasure room on the snow map, buys a spellbook, and researches air magic; he dives into the underground but is too late; red units are already there, but thanks to the bracers, he reaches Tazar and the sea of troops.
Valeska 7 14 8 4 with expert air magic and primary attack, 2 angels, 3 champions, 1 horse, 8 archers, 30 imps, 18 spearmen defeat 16 griffins, 50 lizards, 20 sprites, 9 basilisks, etc., at the swamp - amazing, victory!

And here's the game against SEM_56 in the season game (now our newbies will burst out laughing):

SEM_56 (blue, Swamp, Tazar, Tazar) def Vigo (red, Castle, Valeska, Valeska) 2SM4d(3) 212

Everything seems fine. At first glance, it gave good resources: two external dwellings for horses and an external dwelling for angels. But on the second turn, after scouting the secondary respawn point on the sun map and the underground – he realized that there were no prospects. Neither slow nor haste in any of the castles or in the three resource locations!
On the fourth turn, he gathered all the available resources and moved towards ГО; there was nowhere else to go.
16 winged creatures easily defeat 110 kittens even without magic, although it doesn't help much; Tazar gets a big bonus from the respawn point and equips himself fully. No chance, thanks for the game, well played, excellent pace!

This is crazy – "on the fourth turn, he gathered all the resources, excellent pace!" - 2SM4d(3) 212.

I won't analyze the save files; you can look at them yourself. There are some funny moments there – walking in circles, and (I don't remember exactly, maybe in this game) – rushing with bracers.
And we will return to the game with Alone later.

None of us in the AC have any questions about Vigo's actions as described. Everything is clear enough.

Most of our players learned about this back in the summer of 2009; vitalic then received a permanent ban for maphacking, and Vigo almost got ignored; in the final of the Best of HeroesWorld tournament, our players simply refused to play against him, and he was disqualified.

I need to get back to work now. To be continued.

Well, here's one with SEM_56 in the season (our newcomers will probably burst out laughing now):

Quote:
"SEM_56 (blue, swamp, Tazar, Tazar) def Vigo (red, castle, Valeska, Valeska) 2SM4d(3) 212

That's it. The draft looked decent at first glance too — two external dwellings of horses and an external dwelling of angels. But on the second look, after scouting the secondary respawn on the surface and the underground one — I realized there were no prospects. Not a single Slow or Haste in any castle or shrines on three respawns!
On the fourth, I gathered all the preserves and headed towards ГО, there was nowhere else to go.
16 birds easily take down 110 kitties even without magic, though there's little point; Tazik got a big chocolate bar from the respawn and packed himself to the fullest. No chance, thanks for the game, well played, excellent tempo!"

This is insane — "on the fourth, I gathered all the preserves, excellent tempo!" — 2SM4d(3) 212.

Petya, do you think this is a gathering of idiots here?
It says "thanks for the game, well played, excellent tempo." Who is that addressed to? Who is he saying "thanks for the game" to? He's praising the opponent for an excellent game, and you just spliced phrases from two places and started making fun! Don't do that, it's unbecoming of you...

The statistics are laughable. Look at my game statistics in the season and in the tournament. About 40% in the first case and 100% in the second. So what? Maybe I was maphacking at Slugfest?
And back in 1998-1999, I think I had about 55% in regular chess-like games and 100% in team games. So what? Maybe, you statisticians, I was maphacking the opponent's brain or maybe I was disguising Kasparov as myself?

This tribunal is utterly disgusting. When one person maphacks in plain sight, he gets away with it easily. Another person is almost erased from the face of the Earth just on suspicion. But do you know what the truth is? I know, and you won't erase me that easily!! The truth is simply that those who lost, let's say, to Vitalik, are so confident in their own invincibility that they're ready to assume anything except one simple fact. In this particular game, he played better. They can't even imagine such a thing; the disease of "megalomania" (delusions of grandeur) hasn't been cancelled. So they start making up all sorts of things. Next, they'll say Vitalik was hypnotizing his opponents through Hamachi. And what? With their logic, that's a normal next step.

It's useless to shut me up. I've had enough.