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Posts from Mafia: general discussions. Auto-translated

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#4660
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Quote:
"Andrey already felt the cold tentacles of death1 behind him; he looked one last time with tears in his eyes2 at the setting sun3 and vanished into oblivion."
There are three clues here, but two are incorrect. This encourages dialogue. Or one clue, but which points to several people. Also, to facilitate dialogue.
By the way, that's an interesting idea. If you explain it in detail, I'll implement it in my next game :).
Карты для Heroes of Might and Magic V
Цикл "Закадычные враги": "Особенное гостеприимство, "Супероружие", "Меж молотом и наковальней"
"Падение Шантири"

Кампания для "Кодекса Войны"
"Выбор Сагиттеля"
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#4661
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What exactly is a key role?
In this case, I meant blockers. It's a very important town role that provides information for the daytime discussion.
So, you weren't convincing enough or you didn't manage to convey your idea correctly.
But how should I convey it then?
Here, the question needs to be phrased differently: in which game did the town win thanks to good daytime play? Without any distribution of night actions or other giveaways, but simply thanks to constructive dialogue and accurate conclusions.
Do you think that removing notes and blocks will improve the quality of the game? I'm afraid the daytime discussion will be even more sluggish, and there will be nothing to have a constructive dialogue about. You yourself wrote that
then the mafia will constantly win
Карты для Heroes of Might and Magic V
Цикл "Закадычные враги": "Особенное гостеприимство, "Супероружие", "Меж молотом и наковальней"
"Падение Шантири"

Кампания для "Кодекса Войны"
"Выбор Сагиттеля"
In reply to Zybr
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#4662
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Zybr
In which game did the town pull through thanks to good daytime play? Without any night action distribution or other incriminating clues, but simply due to constructive dialogue and correct conclusions.

It's foolish to look for this in HWshka. Although what you're talking about might have happened in 20-player games, for example. Or in psycho mafia.
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#4663
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Someone is constantly writing that the investigating role is a "town role without a night action." But with proper use, it's a very strong town role because it receives information that significantly narrows down the possible roles for the investigated players. Problems only arise when there are many status roles in the setting, or when there are too many "town" roles among the mafia. At the same time, when this kind of information is leaked to the town through notes in the newspaper, it becomes an overpowered advantage for the town.
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#4664
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By the way, that's an interesting idea. If you explain it in more detail, I'll implement it in my next game .
The idea is that there would be several suspects for each murder. That is, the clue(s) themselves are easy to solve, but there are several candidates for execution.
There are two ways to achieve this:
1) For each murder, there are several possible clues, as in the example. That is, there are three points that can be taken as a clue. Two out of three are actually just descriptions, but the players don't know that. As a result, no extra time is wasted on analyzing various articles from the wiki, and everyone immediately moves on to the discussion.
Here's an example with you and me:
Arandor's body lay in a pit shrouded in thick smoke. The fractured skull indicated a powerful blow from a hammer.
Thick smoke - a clue pointing to me;
Hammer - a clue pointing to you.

Alternatively, it could be written like this:
Arandor's body was found only at noon - the fog carefully concealed the crime for a long time.
The smoke can be reclassified as fog, and this will be a clue pointing to me, and you already have fog visible in your avatar - that is, the clue also points to you.


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



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#4665
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But how will the city then figure out which of the clues is the real one? I like this option more than the current one, because then the clues will fit into the setting and won't stand out from the newspaper (although there are such clues even now). But will this actually help the city?
Карты для Heroes of Might and Magic V
Цикл "Закадычные враги": "Особенное гостеприимство, "Супероружие", "Меж молотом и наковальней"
"Падение Шантири"

Кампания для "Кодекса Войны"
"Выбор Сагиттеля"
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#4666
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In this case, I meant blockers. A very important in-game role that provides information for daytime discussion.
It's important, but often it also unnecessarily reveals players. There shouldn't be any easy wins:)
But how should I convey it then?
More persistently, more convincingly. No one is saying that it will work on the first try.
Do you think that removing notes and blocking will improve the quality of the game? I'm afraid the daytime discussion will be even more sluggish, and there will be nothing to have a constructive dialogue about. You yourself wrote that...
If you don't remove them, there definitely won't be any progress. I don't think it can get any worse than it already is.


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



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#4667
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But how will the town then figure out which of the clues is the real one? I like this option more than the current one because then the clues will fit into the setting and won't stand out from the newspaper (although there are such clues even now). But will this really help the town?
To figure it out, you'll need to analyze the psychology of behavior, rely on the results of other investigations. See who is defending the player and who isn't, and how the player himself reacts.
After all, when you know that you are a town member and the clue cannot be real, that's one reaction, but when you suspect that the clue is correct, the reaction will be different, logically, right? This is basic.


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



In reply to Zybr
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#4668
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Zybr
It's important, but often it also unfairly targets players. There shouldn't be easy wins:)

Be more persistent and convincing. No one is saying it will work on the first try.

If it's not removed, there definitely won't be any progress. I don't think it can get any worse.
Maybe, instead of notes, we could make "wills," as Ple-Sen suggested? And the will could only be written before the character's in-game death, so the information from the last night is automatically excluded. And the block could be made invisible. Strengthen the check with combinations of blockers or city archers.
Карты для Heroes of Might and Magic V
Цикл "Закадычные враги": "Особенное гостеприимство, "Супероружие", "Меж молотом и наковальней"
"Падение Шантири"

Кампания для "Кодекса Войны"
"Выбор Сагиттеля"
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#4669
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If anything needs to be removed, it should be the redirects, or significantly reduced. The amount of "filler" content directly depends on the amount of other information in the newspaper, so it doesn't give the city a free advantage on its own. Notes should be limited as much as possible, or removed altogether. Regarding clues, I sometimes even try to disguise them within the description, but it's difficult to make it so that there's both a beautiful solution and a hidden clue (I haven't even managed to do that properly with one out of two attempts so far). It's not like we should be using fog in the avatar as clues, after all.
 

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#4670
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Maybe instead of notes, we could implement "wills," as Ple-Sen suggested? And the will could only be written before the in-game death, so the information from the last night is automatically excluded. Also, the block could be made invisible. We can reinforce the check with links to blockers or city archers.
Wills would again be a very easy advantage for the city.
The city doesn't need to be strengthened; it's fine as it is. If we constantly help the city, we won't move forward. We need to give the city challenges that are solvable but require effort. Let it fail to win on the first, maybe even the second or third attempt, but it's impossible to progress by setting easy conditions for ourselves instead of difficult ones.


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



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#4671
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Seriously, using blurry avatars as clues?
Well, this is just an example. I'm just saying that a clue should encourage communication between players, not between a player and Wikipedia or something else.


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



In reply to Zybr
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#4673
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Zybr
Decrees are again a very big advantage for the town.
The town doesn't need to be strengthened; it's fine as it is. If you constantly help the town, you won't make any progress. You need to give the town challenges that are solvable but require effort. Let it fail to win on the first, maybe even the second or third attempt, but it's impossible to progress by setting easy, rather than difficult, conditions for yourself.
Maybe. But won't that create an imbalance in favor of the Mafia?
Карты для Heroes of Might and Magic V
Цикл "Закадычные враги": "Особенное гостеприимство, "Супероружие", "Меж молотом и наковальней"
"Падение Шантири"

Кампания для "Кодекса Войны"
"Выбор Сагиттеля"
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#4674
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You’d turn normal mafia into a psycho game if you start removing ND, newspaper displays, and such. I doubt HeroesWorld is the place where you can change things that way. It’s the people that matter, not the mechanics. Though I’d gladly watch you try to keep half the players out of your 12-14 player games, watch them argue with you, tell you to take your rules — which only benefit three or four people while the other sixteen don’t need them — and so on. It might lead to some players leaving, and if someone then wants to run a 20-player game, they simply won’t have enough people.

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