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Posts from Player rating for tournaments across all installments of Heroes.

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Which rating system should I choose? (see the text for details)
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In reply to AmberSoler
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#166
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AmberSoler;60497
On a low rating, it will always slowly increase because the oscillator is positive, and the correction is insignificant due to the low rating. There is nothing surprising about this... On a high rating, the correction is already more significant, but you can still manage with normal gameplay... But a 30% drop after just one loss is already Forex, not Heroes!

Where is the correction insignificant due to the low rating?
A player with a rating of 100 takes last place and raises their rating to 130!!!
That's a 30% increase in their rating after losing, with a 1/10 chance of winning!

Where is it more significant on a high rating?
A player with a rating of 900 takes last place and drops to 850!!!
That's only a 6% decrease in their rating, with a 1/10 chance of winning.

And your statements are only true if the decrease is by 1/3.
Then yes, it works as you said. The correction is small on a low rating, and significant on a high rating.

I don't understand why the rating should care about the players, and not the other way around?
AmberSoler;60497

State the task clearly again - I'm already confused about what and where to calculate. Ask a specific question.

The question is this. Let's calculate the rating of the Best tournament according to your system, where it's not good to penalize the leaders. And then calculate how the next tournament with the same players would look. Let's say Dmitry had a major setback, Radik played a little worse than before. But VDV significantly improved his game.
That is, what are the chances of the closest rivals overtaking each other in a fair fight if they all participate in the tournaments and don't skip them?
In reply to IronAxe
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#167
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IronAxe;60499
Here's the question. Let's use a system where it's not good to offend the leaders, and you'll calculate the rating for the Best tournament. Then, you'll calculate how the next tournament with the same players would be.
Set a clear task and you'll get a clear answer...
1. I need a specific number of days for each player.
2. Indicate the place each player took.
3. How many players participated in the tournament?

We won't consider the average rating for now.
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#168
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AmberSoler;60500
I need a specific number of days for each player. Set a clear task and get a clear answer...

I already did :)
Why does the losing player with a low rating get a rating increase of as much as 30%?
Why does a player with a lot of rating, taking last place, only decrease their rating by 6%? He didn't miss the tournament.

Regarding the numbers - first, just calculate the results of the tournament.
Then, having your numbers in front of you, I'll tell you mine for further experimental calculations. Okay?
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#169
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IronAxe;60501
I've already installed it :)
Why does the losing player with a low rating get a rating increase of up to 30%?
Why does a player with a high rating, finishing in last place, only decrease their rating by 6%? He didn't miss the tournament.
This is the least serious question you've asked in this thread. I won't answer it; think about it yourself...
IronAxe;60501
Regarding the numbers - first, just calculate the results of the tournament.
Then, with your numbers in front of you, I'll tell you mine for further experimental calculations. Okay?
The results have already been calculated:

Place - points
1 - 100.0
2 - 93.9
3 - 77.6
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#170
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AmberSoler;60502
The least serious question you asked in this thread. I won't answer it; think about it yourself...
I thought – I didn't understand anything. The point is this: when a player loses, their rating should decrease, not increase, but here it's the opposite. If I knew the answer myself, I wouldn't ask.

So, where are these calculated results from the past tournament, and who calculated them?
This was in this thread, where you gave an example – there, it was already done using formulas.
In reply to IronAxe
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#171
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IronAxe;60503
I thought I didn't understand anything. The point is this: when a player loses, their rating should decrease, not increase, but here it's the opposite. If I knew the answer myself, I wouldn't be asking.

Okay, here's my answer:

Let's say that in a tournament, two players with different ratings (100 and 900) take third (last) place, completing the map in 10 days. The winner completed the map in 8 days. In total:

The 1st player (rating 100) receives 100-10+40=130 (+30) points in total because their correction of -10 is insignificant, as it depends on the current rating.
The 2nd player (rating 900) receives 900-90+40=850 (-50) points, because they have a significant correction of -90 due to their high current rating.

What's unclear about the calculations? And how could it be different? After all, they earn the same amount, but spend it differently! What else can I explain? :)
IronAxe;60503
So, where are these calculated results for the completed tournament, and who calculated them?
In the post above, the ratings of the top three players in the BB tournament are shown. I calculated them. :smile19:
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#172
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AmberSoler;60502

The one who finished long ago has already been calculated:
Place - points
1 - 100,0
2 - 93,9
3 - 77,6

1. Let's say Radik finished in 17 days
2. Dmitry in 24.
3. VDV in 24

The population was the same, so as not to introduce distortions based on this parameter.
Well, what comes out of that?

Added after 11 minutes
AmberSoler;60504

What is unclear in the calculations? How else could it be? After all, they earn equally, but spend differently! What else needs explaining? :)

It's unclear why a player with a low rating wins and thereby increases their rating. Does such a thing happen in real life? In sports, for example? I'm not aware of it either; maybe you know?
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#173
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IronAxe;60505

1. Let's assume Radik completed it in 17 days.
2. Dmitry in 24.
3. VDV in 24.

The number of players was the same, so as not to introduce bias in this parameter.
So, what are the results?

Dmitriy A S - 183.1
Radik - 193.9
VDV_forever - 160.7
IronAxe;60505
It's unclear why a player with a low rating is performing well and increasing their rating. Does this happen in real life? In sports, for example? I'm not sure either, maybe you know?
Why are you only thinking about this now? A month ago, when you published your calculation mechanism, didn't this bother you? The rating should be calculated using a completely different scheme, not the one you initially started with... Or, let's give the winner 10 points instead of 100. Then the loser will receive 4 instead of 40 and will immediately start "performing well"...

And in general, those whose current rating exceeds ten times their income are at a disadvantage, and those whose rating does not exceed it are at an advantage. This is always the case with the current calculation system.

But let's not talk about that now. Let's at least finish one question...
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#174
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AmberSoler;60507

Dmitriy A S - 183.1
Radik - 193.9
VDV_forever - 160.7
Everything seems to be working fine here.
AmberSoler;60507

Why are you only thinking about this now? A month ago, when you published your calculation mechanism, didn't this bother you? The rating should have been calculated using a completely different scheme back then, not the one you initially started with... Or, let's give the winner 10 points instead of 100. Then the loser will get 4 instead of 40 and will immediately "give up"...
At least I had some kind of mechanism, but I didn't understand at all how VDV calculated it, so I suggested this scheme - it couldn't be simpler. Then, with me, the increase wasn't as noticeable due to the strong aging effect. But now it's very obvious.
AmberSoler;60507

And in general, anyone whose current rating exceeds ten times their income is in the negative, and anyone whose rating is less than that is in the positive. Always.
Okay, let's leave it like this.
AmberSoler;60507

But let's not talk about that now. Let's at least finish one question...
Which one? It seems like everything has already been decided. Let them enjoy it while their income doesn't exceed the threshold
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#175
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IronAxe;60508
Which one? It seems like everything is already decided. Let them enjoy it while the revenue doesn't exceed the threshold :)
Well, we haven't seen any comments yet... So, let's wait until Monday, :) and then we'll see...
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#176
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AmberSoler;60509
Well, we haven't seen any comments yet... So, let's wait until Monday, :) and then we'll see...
What's there to look at? Go to VDV and suggest the revised version, and have the rating for "best" calculated using these formulas, otherwise he'll publish my calculations, and then we'll have to change them!

I'm going to sleep, it's already morning :)
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#177
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IronAxe;60508
Then it didn't increase as noticeably due to the strong aging effect. But now it's really obvious.
We'll see... let's see if everything doesn't end up at zero... Where did you get the idea that all players will participate in all tournaments? :) The rating will drop faster than the income, you'll see. And you'll give up on aging eventually... :)
IronAxe;60510
What are you waiting for, go to VDV and suggest the improved version, and let the rating for "best" be calculated using these formulas, otherwise he'll publish my calculations, and then we'll have to change them!
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#178
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AmberSoler;60511
Well, well... let's see if everyone ends up with zero points... What makes you think that all players will participate in all Tournaments? :) The rating will drop faster than the income, you'll see. And you'll also have to give up on aging... :)
We'll see.
AmberSoler;60511

You run! :D I've already helped you as much as I could...
I don't fully understand the method with oscillators and the dependence on the location. That's why I won't tell him anything specific. Let's just say I'll do the calculations. Give me the instructions and the necessary tables in Excel. The instructions should be clear even to me. Then I'll go to VDV and try to get him to replace the announcement about the rating with this improved instruction. So, who will prove that the Tournaments need to be held at the same level, or should we just throw them into the rating? Just write it in the instructions, or I'll add it myself, and you provide the sequence of what and how to calculate. I only agreed to divide one thing by another - no more :) And now, a whole bunch of complicated stuff has been added, but it seems to have worked out well. Okay, we'll start running when we're rested :)
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#179
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Oops! Huge thanks to the esteemed IronAxe and AmberSoler, as well as Sage for participating in the discussion. Only now I don't understand anything at all. :( You write so much every day that I lose my train of thought by the time I reach the middle. I'll try to summarize something; if I'm wrong, please correct me.
1 - Rating is calculated for each version separately (it is consolidated into a general table only for those who played at least 3/5 Tournaments).
2 - The calculation takes into account RATING separately, which has the characteristic of aging by 10% after each tournament, and GRAILS separately, which simply accumulate and are spent on the doll.
3 - The calculation formula for both may be the same.
4 - An oscillator is intended to smooth out overly sharp rises and falls.
5 - When calculating rating/grails, three points are significant: a) the number of tournament participants; b) the Walkthrough time compared to the leader; c) the tournament rating, which becomes an additional coefficient.
I think that's all. Any comments?
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#180
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IronAxe;60492
Here. It's closer now. Let's consider someone who completed it in 10 days. They got 40 points, is that good or bad? If a player is new to tournaments and has a low rating, say 100, they'll get approximately 100 - 10 + 40 = 130. So, they still improved. Right?
But if they're a super player with a rating of 900, then 900 - 90 + 40 = 850. Those points don't matter to them. The decrease is insignificant; they might say they just played casually for a day to get it.

And with a reduction of 1/3:
First case: 2 * 100 / 3 + 40 = 67 + 40 = 107. They're still in the plus :(
Second case: 2 * 900 / 3 + 40 = 600 + 40 = 640. Now that's worth it :) They played well for free :)
I'd like to correct you a bit. With a reduction of 1/3, the maximum rating will be only 300 points (300 / 3 = 100 + 100 (for the win) = 300). I think you missed this point.
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