Posts from Турниры HeroesWorld Cup & World Cup - 2012

Surprisingly, Pete might not win this tournament, but he has already won a victory over his own conscience... I watched two matches with Rebelious over the microphone, and of course, there were no violations (I won't talk about the games with Blackknight, but I'm sure everything was fair there too).
Dear friends, what's coming up soon? A wart?! No... What's coming up soon is the FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP, and you're all spamming... I wish everyone a pleasant viewing experience, and may Ukraine vs. Russia play in the final.)):cool:

I restored the deleted posts at the author's request. I don't see anything objectionable. If they offended anyone specifically, please write to me in a private message, and then we will delete them.

How I want to know the details!

OK, in detail.
First, there was the match black_knight vs rebellious.
Sir rebellious's report can be read here http://heroesportal.net/tavern/?id=365783&pagenum=1, quite amusing, the tournament rules were being learned as the games went on. Too bad I don't know where to watch the full saves. black_knight had complaints about these games. But Sticky decided to see what would happen next.
Then there were games with the Pole yarzapp, where apparently nobody saw any saves at all.
rebellious, please post the full saves, maybe someone would be interested but is too shy to ask.

Then we played. I already wrote that I have no complaints about my own games, the results of the two games were predetermined by the generator, and on Jebus I lost myself; for the first week and a half of the game I was busy with another urgent matter and couldn't concentrate on the game, resulting in me making many mistakes. So it's foolish on my part to blame Rebellius for Pandoras that had no impact on the result.
Whether there was cheating in other games – I don't know, I need to watch all the saves fully, preferably from many games with different opponents. Fortunately, in this case, Sticky didn't involve me in the judging.

After the cheating disputes, I no longer wanted to play in the tournament. Especially not to enter the upper bracket instead of Rebellius when I lost fair and square.

Withdrawing as the main contender is wrong and unacceptable, I believe. It could ruin the tournament and shows disrespect to the organizer and the viewers.

I think they perfectly understand that their actions are putting an end to future tournaments of this format. What is being proven here and what the fight is for – I don't understand. If there are no such tournaments, who will benefit from that?

That is precisely why I didn't withdraw before the round, and started playing with Neo. Sticky put tremendous effort into establishing connections with other resources and organizing the tournament. I simply couldn't screw him over like that.

Well, as for Neo... He also plays amusingly...
This is already the third withdrawal on his tournament path :D
The first to refuse to play with him was a Chinese player. http://heroesportal.net/tavern/?id=365783&pagenum=2
Then Neo actively participated in Rebellius's withdrawal. Whether Neo genuinely believes there was maphack, or acted based on some other considerations, I don't know.

We already finished playing yesterday.
Pit achieved a "brilliant" victory...

You forgot there were two victories)
First, Neoandy lost on Jebus; many watched the start of the trans. The game was interesting, with some funny moments. I had to fire a hero with a teapot so the opponent wouldn't get him) Maybe I'll write a report about it later.
Then Neoandy didn't find chocolate on sm-ka and demanded a full restart on 115 due to a block :confused: , already having 3 towns and 8 heroes. How is that a block?
Perhaps, in a different mood, I would have given him that restart, but I don't feel like playing right now, what can I do?

His decision to withdraw from the tournament was emotional due to our private conversation that concerns no one else.

The conversation was quite lengthy and concerned the restart, the tournament, and Rebellius.
As a result of the conversation, I was faced with an alternative – either give the restart and continue playing with Neo, or withdraw so Neo could calmly and without interference play against Maretti.
I didn't particularly have any emotions. The desire to play in the tournament just disappeared completely.
I understand I'm letting Sticky down and disappointing the viewers' expectations. But after the insults from Neoandy, I won't play.

I didn't have the conscience to overlook such a player elimination and proceed to the semifinals.

It's good that there's still a conscience left. So the matter isn't hopeless)
I don't care whether he stays in the upper bracket, plays in the lower bracket, or withdraws entirely... I'll write the reports as needed. I can write that I lost two games on 111.

To Wicc. So, contrary to your expectations, no one else has caught anyone cheating.

Thank you for the detailed response, Peter. It's all quite sad.

let's also hear what Neo has to say. If that's the case, Pete should be in the upper bracket, and 3 castles don't block anything, so a speech isn't possible. Pete, don't get defensive, you're right about everything, just be more assertive; this is a championship, and you need to show some character.

We agreed to play around 2 PM, but Tinker suggested starting now... let's start now. 844 867 837
If anyone can do a replay or stream, I would be grateful.

As a result of the conversation, I was faced with a choice: either take a break and play with Neo further, or step aside so that Neo could play with Maretti calmly and without interference.

Wasn't there an option of "no way, no gum rest"?

But after the insults from Neoandy, I won't play.

Well, this is a sport, so you can be subjected to psychological pressure...

That was Wicc. So, contrary to your expectations, no one caught anyone cheating.

That was obviously a joke about a current topic...

let's also hear what Neo has to say

It's funny how Pit twisted everything around, especially the attempt to shift the situation with Reb from a sick head to a healthy one. Good job, Petya! – you'll go far.

I initially didn't want to air all the dirty laundry, writing only what was relevant to the further tournament situation. Now I have to defend myself.

I'll just say that I was very disappointed in Pit as a person first and foremost, and as a Heroes player second. What many people wrote here about the motives of the judging and Pit regarding the situation with Reb, I somehow didn't want to believe at first. But in light of what happened, I think people were right.

BK played against Reb – filed a complaint with Sticky. They tell him – let's wait, see what happens next, and you go to the lower bracket. Well, one could have agreed, if the goal was to gather more solid evidence to later justify the judges' decision (which includes Pit).

And what do we see next?

Reb plays against Yarazap, wins. And did anyone check the saves? – No!!
Pit only now asks Reb to upload them – what if there's something interesting there? – very appropriate, maybe you'll evaluate them yourself?

And then comes Reb's next game against Pit. Pit lost, as he said, due to the generator (just like I did to him). Allegedly filed no complaints (although when I watched those saves and wrote to him in ICQ – Pyotr somehow didn't mention the lack of complaints).

But then the judges decide, enough of Reb "cheating"! Now Pit is the injured party!
Or are the saves with pandoras and the absence of any complaint from Pit exactly what the judges decided to wait for, refusing to investigate BK's case and not even analyzing the saves of Reb's game against Yarazap?

No, well, I'm curious, who is this super-Hunter, who first analyzed Reb's saves against Pit, without the latter's request? Reb, maybe you did it yourself? – because otherwise it all looks kind of strange.

The subjectivity of applying referee authority is obvious. Since no more substantial arguments were added, they should have waited further and allowed Reb to play against me, but why they didn't do this – everyone already understands – to push Pit further in the upper bracket.

Pit kept quiet to appear innocent and fluffy, as was written here on the forum, shifting all objections of the dissatisfied onto the vague collective decision of the judges, which was made by a vote of Sticky and another bourgeois judge, and the Chinese judge didn't even participate in it, because he wasn't online at that moment!
But there was no time – a decision had to be made urgently!

And they also neatly dragged me into the situation. And now Pit has completely twisted even my motives regarding Reb. Thank you, Pyotr – you are falling lower and lower in my eyes, and your goal, to achieve victory at any cost, and most importantly through the hands of others – becomes clearer and clearer. But you can't deceive people for long.

After all, if you claim that Reb might have had maphack all along, then it didn't affect the outcome of his games against you, so why did you accept Sticky's decision about your advancement in the upper bracket? (this is equivalent to me, after your post about withdrawing, going to play with Maretti, since it happened that you suddenly lost the desire to play in the tournament). After all, if you accept a technical win in a match you lost without any complaint, then the motives for banning Reb specifically in that round become more than obvious!
And only when I told you this – did your conscience wake up (or did the truth dawn on you?) and you realized that even if you reached the final, you couldn't achieve a clean victory in the tournament, so you started your shamanic dances in the form of withdrawal?

Further, everything is clear to me. Petya pretends to be a little boy who needs to be led by the hand, but in reality, manipulating the leader, he is now offended by everyone and everything and will return to the tournament only for the sake of the spectators, thus once again whitewashing his thirst for victory. Well, well.

As for me, I told you and Sticky right away: it would have been more beneficial for me to play against Reb in that round than against you.
But I gave an objective assessment of the saves, as the judges asked me, and believed the whole thing was for the sake of fairness, but after reading the topic with the inhabitants' statements later (I haven't read the HeroesWorld forum for about 2 years), I began to understand that the goal was different.

Regarding the extra restart. I was streaming my game, and the viewers were shocked by the generations in the 2nd game and especially the last one, where right at the castle exit there was a stack of genies, but fortunately you could bypass it with a hook. And then arrows after arrows, 20 archers from the start and no money to build horses when I opened the accessible territory. I went for a rush against you, where I also had to fight a stack of magogs and elves, but the secondary hero wasn't captured. A generator victory, pure and simple. I asked for a mutual restart on turn 111, and also, explaining the situation, wanting only one thing – to play a playable layout in a normal game – I asked for an extra restart. You are certainly not obliged to give it, and I have no right to demand it (and I didn't demand it) – that's for sure, and after what you started writing to me about it in ICQ – I wouldn't have taken it as a gift anyway, because I understood your values in this tournament. Maybe my opinion is subjective, as I expected what I myself do in all tournaments, but this is an ethical question and does not concern the tournament rules or the result of our round.

As for Wulma, who couldn't finish the decisive game due to real-life time issues (that's what Sticky told me) and for the same reason he didn't play BK in the lower bracket – what kind of spin are you trying to put on that? – if you have a strong desire to say something nasty about me, you don't need to pick your nose with your eyes closed, especially in someone else's place. The fact that you brought all this to the forum – oh, it doesn't do you any favors.

And don't you dare, Pyotr, be happy about my conscience. You take care of your own.

P.S.: I feel sick from all this and from what's written above, but the truth isn't always pleasant.

Neo, you are completely wrong about everything here. 1. Rebbe was removed, and it was decided that you would play with Pete. And you did play. Therefore, no one even needs to read your arguments in the first 15 paragraphs. 2. Pete is not some innocent angel; he remained silent, and since his saves were used and he was also a judge, he acted like a well-mannered person. 3. Your additional rest – you used up your rests, it’s your own fault. The victory goes to the generator and Pete. In my opinion, Pete, you can move forward with a clear conscience to the finals.

I strongly demand answers from the organizer Stickee to my questions posted on 06.06.2012, 20:41

Questions for the organizer.
1. If there was a judge vote on my issue, what was the breakdown and the final formulations (why is this information closed)?
2. Did interested parties — black_knight and Pit for LM — participate in making the decision on the ban?
3. If the opinion of "not just anyone in the community" was used in making the ban decision, then again — who expressed what, and with what conclusions?
4. If the saves were published on HeroesWorld, was there supposed to be a link between the discussion and the ban decision?
5. Although after the fact, how (by what criteria, characteristics) were the judges selected? (I'm afraid to even ask) Who is Spell5632?

-- --
Furthermore, what motives guided the judges/Stickee in making the ban decision, based on the information about the saves they received from Neoandi, including his comments in his interpretation (my direct competitor, the most interested party), and moreover accepting it as official?
Saves

I strongly demand answers from the organizer, Stiky, regarding my questions published on 06.06.2012, 20:41

-- --
Furthermore, what motives guided the judges/Stiky in making the decision to ban, based on information about the save files obtained from Neoandi, including his comments and interpretations (a direct competitor, the most interested party), and then accepting it as official?
Save files

Maybe I'm wrong, but demanding anything is now pointless.
You won on all counts :)
Because "Whoever has the truth is the strongest" (c)
They made an ill-considered decision, without weighing it properly, and now they are reaping the consequences. That very infamous backlash has returned.

You won on all counts :)
Because "He who has the truth is the strongest" (quote).
They made an ill-considered decision, without weighing it properly, and now they are reaping the consequences. That very notorious backlash has returned.

I fully support this! 100%!

1. If there was a judge vote on my question, what was the outcome and the final wording (why is this information withheld)?

2-1 not in your favor

Did the interested parties - black_knight and Pit for LM - participate in the ban decision?

no, it was written above

If the opinion of "not the least prominent people in the community" was used in the ban decision, then again - who said what, and with what conclusions?

I won't say; unlike some, I understand that what is written in private messages is first and foremost personal correspondence

If saves were published on HeroesWorld, was there an intention to link the discussion with the ban decision?

yes, but as we recall, no discussion actually took place

Even though it's post factum, still, how (by what criteria, characteristics) were the judges selected? (I'm afraid to even ask) Who is Spell5632?

one person per community. Spell is a Chinese player; I cannot speak for his skill, but on his portal he participated in organizational activities. In any case, he is the one the Chinese portal nominated as a judge for the World Championship. Now I realize the mistake of selecting many judges from among active players, so instead of 5 possible judges, only 3 made the decision regarding Rebel.

Anyway, as I see it, almost no one believes that Rebel was banned on suspicion of cheating rather than for any other reasons (personal animosity, favoritism toward Pit, etc.). I am closing the tournament due to the obvious complete loss of trust in the organizer.

Practically no one believes that Rebel was banned for suspected cheating, but rather for some other reason (personal dislike, favoritism, etc.). I am closing the tournament due to the obvious complete loss of trust in the organizer.

I'm trying to find the "missing" players on the list of participants; besides Rebel, I don't see anyone else particularly noteworthy...

Local and non-local forum trolls who weren't involved in either the tournament or its selection process are stirring up trouble. It's not right to give in to them – they'll sense weakness and troll all your future endeavors. Do you really need that? Wouldn't it be easier to shut them down now?

And yes, in any case, the tournament shouldn't be closed. If you can't handle it yourself, pass the reins to someone else. Sag... Lizard... who else is active in foreign communities and has organizational experience?

P.S. By the way, I didn't quite understand – did you seriously think that such a tournament could go without disputes, without a bunch of dissatisfied people, etc.?

Added 32 minutes ago

Maybe I'm wrong, but demanding anything now is pointless.
You won on all counts :)
Because "He who has the truth is stronger" (c)
They made an ill-considered decision, didn't weigh it properly, and now they are reaping the consequences. That very backlash has returned.

Artemiy, I respect you as a person and as a player, but, as my calculus professor used to say: "You're zero in mathematical analysis," meaning you're not good at organizational matters.

I don't remember you ever taking a constructive position in any dispute regarding unfair play. Whether it was with Eddie or others. You mainly engage in emotional outbursts, which aren't particularly appropriate here, and even harmful – because there are already many nervous wrecks in the Heroes community, and they easily fall for the general hype.

Sticky explained his position quite clearly. The other accusers did too. Even I, although I haven't looked at the saves, calmly explained what my point of view is based on. Without whining, bluffing, or pretending to be an innocent victim.

If you want to constructively challenge something, take the saves and get started. An example of how this should look can be found, for example, here:
/topic/at/400500/
All arguments of the accusation are refuted, and many additional arguments are provided in defense. And all without dramatization, exaggeration, just pure logic mixed with light sarcasm towards the prosecutor. If Rebel had responded like that from the beginning, there wouldn't have been all this fuss.

But now everyone has gotten their fill of crap. Since they enjoy it so much, why pretend? They're all one of us anyway :)

I've always had a simple stance, even though I'm clueless about organizational matters. Since you're judging, treat everyone equally. And regarding the last phrase – you're right. I don't play Mafia and can't determine anything virtually; I'm all for real-life interaction. But I know one thing: in the Rebe situation, those who were to some extent responsible should have been the ones to suffer. And lo and behold! Neo argued with Pete, and Sticky is closing the tournament... Just as the Rebe situation was initially a farce, that's how it should have ended. As for a constructive position and whining – that's exactly what the parties involved in this "affair" are doing. It's all based on emotions. And as an outside observer, I only feel sorry for one thing: that STICKY didn't take everything into his own hands but is instead swayed by emotions or something else. The tournament should be completed in any case, and this "mess" should serve as a manual for all future organizers. I just don't understand one thing, Yura. Do you think it was necessary to simply watch the events unfold, remain silent, and pretend that the disqualification was justified? What do you consider constructive – analyzing saves and expressing a subjective opinion? That's what the judges should do. BUT, if they do it without much argumentation and further consistency in their decisions? Because, as I understand it, what happened between Neo and Pete doesn't concern Rebe's disqualification; it's just emotions and hysteria and has nothing to do with the matter.