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Offline Alessandro
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#345
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Wicc
So, the proposed changes:
1) Remove the 25% hit bonus for monster specialists.
2) Remove classes as a concept, and transfer their functionality to individual skills.
3) Additional skill functionality.
4) Give armor and logistics specialists a 2.5% bonus per level. We won't touch offensive specialists for now, as they don't seem to be overpowered.
5) Add Yavor's scripts for the Inferno patch, new constraints, and the symmetrizer to the standard package. Enable the Inferno patch by default (remove the checkbox), and make the rest optional (with a checkbox).
6) We need to somehow improve the Tavern faction; it's very weak. I don't want to change the heroes from the Tavern for now, as the skill balance is still unclear, and heroes alone won't help much, so we need to change the building tree and prices.
7) Let's put aside any concerns about the starting army and give Ufretin, Strider, Edrick, and Korback an army like the regular heroes of their respective factions.
1) I'm all for it.
2) I'll abstain; I usually play without classes, but it's probably better to leave it as is.
3) I'll abstain.
4) I'm against it.
5) I'm against it.
6) I'm for it; I suggest making it the same as in the HeroesBay scripts and settings before WOT: have the observation tower built in the Tavern.
7) I'm for it
Discord  5884
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Offline Oelm
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#346
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Ivor, don't forget that there will be goblins instead of wolves. That's why it's suggested to create and test an experimental version. And learning is, of course, a circus. For example, I will immediately assign a hero with learning to the artifact crafters.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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Offline Wicc
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#347
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That's why I suggest creating and testing an experimental version.
I propose an experimental version: you say how to nerf Tyrus, then we play for money, best of 3 – you play as Tyrus, and I play as Inferno (Fiona with a patch) or Flax (at my discretion). Templates – all XL+U, in turn. Full VT, we change the color each rest, standard rules.

In principle, I'm also ready to play against an un-nerfed Tyrus, but since you consider him overpowered...
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Offline Lider1
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#348
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Remove 3 wolves from Tiras. And don't argue :D
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline Wicc
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#349
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Lider1
Remove 3 wolves from Tiras. And don't argue :D
Well, the option of removing 3 wolves from the top and adding 2 from the bottom is quite reasonable. For example, 5-6 wolves for Tiras and 7-8 for the others. The range will be 32-36 instead of the current 30-39. At the same time, the other heroes will also increase (24-26 instead of 20-26).
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Offline <Ivor>
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#350
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"Wicc"
The option to remove 3 wolves from the upper limit and add 2 from the lower limit is quite reasonable.

Let's say, 5-6 wolves for Tiras and 7-8 for the rest. The range will be 32-36 instead of the current 30-39. At the same time, the other heroes will also be buffed (24-26 instead of 20-26).

The same applies to Tiras, but the range is smaller. And it's still better to buff the armies of the other heroes not with wolves, but with goblins and orcs.
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Offline Wicc
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Posts: 5,092
#351
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Let's summarize the interim results:

So far, Dirty, Oelm, NumOne, Lider1, and Alessandro have expressed their opinions.

1) Reduce by 25%.

4 in favor, 1 suggested reducing it to 5-10%.

2) Move classes to skills.

3 in favor, 1 abstained, 1 didn't understand.

3) Additional functionality for skills.

Diplomacy - 3 in favor, 1 abstained, Lider1 didn't express an opinion.

Learning - 1 in favor, 3 against, 1 abstained.

4) Specialists in logistics and armor.

Logistics - 4 in favor, 1 against.
Armor - 2 in favor, 2 against, Lider1 didn't express an opinion.

5) Inferno patch.

For some reason, there were many votes against this, although, in my opinion, this point shouldn't even be discussed; it should have been included in the update from the start, and the issue should have been closed.

6) Tavern.

4 in favor, 1 proposed their own option (it's unclear whether it's in addition to or as an alternative).

7) Ufretin & Co.

5 in favor (1 expressed disagreement specifically with Edrick).

In total, out of the proposed options, only the learning suggestion received general disapproval. Moreover, I didn't quite understand why, whether it's because of the idea of replacing it or because it would be too overpowered in combination with other things. My suggestion is as follows: learning increases the experience gain by 10/20/30%, and on expert difficulty, it is replaced with any basic skill of the player's choice. It doesn't seem overpowered, and it's still useful.

Also, during the discussion, some initially forgotten points emerged:

8) Remove scrolls from the zaobjts.txt file, i.e., simply prevent them from generating on the map. Also, include an option to replace them.

2 in favor.

9) Adjust the number of starting troglodytes for the Шахтер (Shahtyer) to 20-25 (currently 15-25).

Increase the number of harpies for the others to 6-8 (currently 4-6), and give Lore scouting and tactics from the start.

10) Make the Death Dealer a dual-school mage - Water and Air.

11) Replace the Scholar with any basic skill of the player's choice on expert difficulty. Another point for strengthening the Tavern.

You can also express your opinions on points 8-11.
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Offline TERM
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#352
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In general, I agree with almost everything. But I propose:
1) Give the dungeon at least Adzhit Offense and Archery, and +1 Evil Eye at the start for each hero + 1 Evil Eye (8 instead of 7) base growth in the town.
2) Leave Learning as it is now. IMO, it's quite balanced currently.
3) The Tent is too strong, not sure what to do with it: maybe give it a ton of health, if the skill + Advanced heals the selected unit to max, and at Expert heals everyone to max, including in banks at the end of the turn.
4) Regarding Scholar, I disagree with it being on any [secondary skill]. As a suggestion, it should be on any magical one (Wisdom, Sorcery, Intelligence, any school of magic).
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Offline Lider1
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#353
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Does the tent heal everyone in each round? That's absurd. Adding 350 health, for example, would be a +1. By the way, in the Dungeon, the specialist for Monticore and Synke could also be given some kind of skill. And the same goes for Agito. I strongly disagree with the learning concept; I support Vik's formulation of 10-20-30% and the choice of skill. Points 8, 9, 10, and 11 are good. I'm in favor of adding classes. Regarding reducing armor, it doesn't seem particularly impactful, but maybe it will be better.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline Redwhait
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#354
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In principle, the innovations are understandable, and I have a positive attitude towards all of them except for points 2 and 8; I think it should still be done with a checkbox. Scrolls also cannot be completely removed; this is one of the essential components of the game....
And also, the first point is quite questionable; it needs balancing, or perhaps the monster experts could give them, for example, a 10% bonus, or add troops to them; otherwise, they will fall to the level of Shades of Darkness.
I have these questions: what about simultaneous turns and anti-cheat? Will they be finalized?
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Offline Wicc
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Posts: 5,092
#355
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The second option, marked with a checkmark, is clear. Instead of class checkmarks.
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Offline StickyFingaz
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Posts: 1,499
#356
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1) Remove the 25% health bonus for monster specialists.

+

2) Remove classes as a separate phenomenon, redistribute their functionality to individual skills.

Speedy -> Navigation +
Terraformer -> Pathfinding (prices negotiable, need to increase) +
Healer -> First Aid (plus casts spells at a skill level equal to its proficiency) - . Casts Mass Cure on Expert
Leprechaun -> Luck +
Marauder -> Leadership (numbers need to be reduced) +
Merchant -> Estates (numbers negotiable) +
Artificer -> Eagle Eye (conditions negotiable) +

The classes checkbox is removed; instead, there is a "new skills" checkbox. +

3) Additional skill functionality

Diplomacy - reduces the cost of monetary transactions with the Merchant and Terraformer, increases the maximum purchase volume from the Merchant. Numbers negotiable. Also on Advanced allows bribing neutrals, on Expert allows bribing "from the spot", like a scout's splitting. +

Diplomacy also falls under the "new skills" checkbox.

Learning - reduce the experience bonus (numbers negotiable), but on Expert, instead of forgetting the skill, replace it with any basic skill of the player's choice. - leave as is

Ballistics - increases the range of direct arrow shot by 2/4/unlim (currently 1/2/4), on Expert ignores walls (similar to Griffin Conservatory) +

4) Give Armorer and Logographer specialists a 2.5% bonus per level. Offensers are left untouched for now; they don't seem too imbalanced. +- Leave Armorer specialists as is

5) Add Ivor's scripts for the Inferno patch, new Griffin Conservatories, and the symmetrizer to the standard supply. Enable the Inferno patch by default (remove the checkbox), leave the rest optional (via checkbox). +

6) Need to somehow buff Tower, a very weak town. Don't want to touch Tower heroes yet; the skill balance is still unclear, and heroes alone won't fix the issue, so the building tree and prices need changing. +. Give heroes normal skills.
.

7) Drop the hang-ups regarding starting armies and give Ufretin, Stracker, Edric, and Korbac armies like those of normal heroes from their respective towns. ++++

8) Remove scrolls at the zaobjts.txt level, i.e., simply so they don't generate on the map. Remove the corresponding checkbox for replacing them accordingly. -

9) Even out the Miner's starting number of Troglodytes to 20-25 (currently 15-25).
Increase the number of Harpies for other Dungeon heroes to 6-8 (currently 4-6). Give Lore Scout and Tactics from the start.

- Nerf Shakti, give Lore 35-40 Harpies and Leadership + Offense, give Ajit 20 Beholders and Leadership + Archery

10) Make Dimension Door a dual-school spell - Water and Air.

Maybe push Anti-Magic entirely into Air?

11) Replace Scholar on Expert with any basic skill of the player's choice. Simply allow the option to forget it
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Offline Дубровин Павел
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Posts: 1,832
#357
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Wicc


So, the proposed changes are:

1) Remove the 25% hit bonus for monster specialists.

2) Remove classes as a concept, and transfer their functionality to individual skills.

3) Additional skill functionality.

4) Give armor and logistics specialists a 2.5% bonus per level. We won't touch offensive specialists for now, as they don't seem to be overpowered.

5) Add Yavor's scripts for the Inferno patch, new cons, and the symmetrizer to the standard package. Enable the Inferno patch by default (remove the checkbox), and make the rest optional (with a checkbox).

6) We need to somehow improve the Tavern; it's a very weak Castle. We don't want to touch the heroes from the Tavern yet, as the skill balance is still unclear, and even the best heroes won't help much, so we need to change the building tree and prices.

7) Forget about complexes regarding the starting army and give Ufretin, Stricker, Edrick, and Korbak an army like the regular heroes of their respective Castles.

8) Remove scrolls from the zaobjts.txt file, so they simply don't generate on the map. Also, remove the checkbox for replacing them.

9) Adjust the number of starting troglodytes for the Miner to 20-25 (currently 15-25).

10) Make the Death Dragon a dual-school mage – Water and Air.

11) Replace the Scholar with any basic skill of the player's choice on the expert difficulty. Another way to strengthen the Tavern. Also, add a checkbox for "new skills".


Everyone is in favor, except:

7) Add Lore there;

10) The Death Dragon should remain in one school of magic, not two;

11) Leave the "Learning" skill as is.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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Offline FireToSky
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#359
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I'll add my contribution too :) 1) +1, this won't affect the Magogs much))) 2) yep 3) I like everything except the option to choose any basic skill when forgetting a learned skill. 4) I don't know about the Armorsmiths, only Tazar is suitable for them, but the percentages should be at least 4, 2.5 is too little, in my opinion. I agree with the Logisticians. 5) a symmetrizer?! 6) we need to somehow improve the Tavern. 7) it wouldn't hurt. 8) and what will be in their place?! emptiness... 9) +100500 10) ok 11) I love Nella
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