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Posts from Clarification of the CIS rules for 2010-11.
To avoid cluttering the main thread, it wouldn't hurt to clarify. Wicc
9) Red-rushing is prohibited on 2sm4d(3) and Jebus, but allowed on all other templates.
b) on heroes or guarded mines of the blue player.
- Can unguarded mines be colored?/If so, it would be helpful to state this. Wicc
Considered as an increase: - troops that have increased in the player's cities or in cities of the opponent captured on that day.
- Can we add ...(and AI)? or can we use the increase captured from the AI on the first day? (it's not many words) Wicc
Considered as an increase: - troops from stashes that were colored earlier (even if they were not purchased last week). - troops from summoning portals that were built earlier (even if they were not purchased last week).
Wicc
Not considered as an increase: - troops from dwellings and summoning portals built on that day. - troops from stashes captured on that day.
If it's not possible to use troops from stashes and portals, then there's no point in using them regardless of the wind strength or weather conditions :smile16: /troops from stashes and portals are an increase!
Remove the two points from the "Not considered" section and rephrase the points in the "Considered" section. Wicc
11) The rule of shifted guard. It is forbidden to take artifacts, Pandora boxes, and prisons past the shifted guard. Everything else can be taken and visited.
MerlinTheMagicianWhat about dwellings and refugee camps?
Yes, it's allowed. We played with this wording of the rules in RP for many years, and there were no complaints. So, someone gets a dragon stash and gets lucky, and if they don't even have to fight, for example, the guard from a Lich's lair :smile16: - it's not fair play, the difficulty lies in the guard/add stashes to the list. Wicc
Important! In the last round, the host reserves the right to set the template and rules in order to guarantee that the game is finished before the deadline (which is the time the trains arrive).
This is outrageous :D ... ahahahaha, (even worse than Captain), it's unforgivable for you to suggest something like that. /I won't write a flood here, but if necessary, I will explain/
P.S. about the final round - it's unacceptable, if this is just my opinion, then it can be ignored (because I might not be on the list of players:D), all other points need to be clarified.
It would have been better to post in the main thread... a request to the moderators to move these posts there.
- Can unguarded mines be painted?/If so, it wouldn't hurt to write that down.
Of course. There's no penalty for it, so it doesn't give red an advantage.
- Maybe add ...(and computers)? Or can you use the initial bonus from a captured computer on the first day? (two words, not many letters)
There are no computers on the CM and Jebus maps. But on all other maps, redrash is allowed.
If you can't use them from hidden locations and portals, then there's no point in using them regardless of the wind strength or weather conditions /troops from hidden locations and portals are a bonus!/
Remove two items from the "Not counted" section, and rephrase the items in the "Counted" section.
Why is this a bonus... maybe angels built on a 121 dwelling are also a bonus?
That is, someone got a hidden location with dragons and got lucky, and if they don't even have to fight, for example, the guard from a Lich's lair, it's somehow not fair play, the whole difficulty lies in the guard/adding to the list of hidden locations/
There's no need to complicate the rule unnecessarily. It has been used in this form for a long time. And it was also used in the previous CIS Championship.
If an unguarded hidden location is given, then it's just luck. It doesn't create any total imbalance (unlike the same artifacts), it's all within the margin of error of the generator.
You really went too far here... ahahahaha, (even more than Captain), it's unforgivable for you to suggest something like that. /I won't write a flood post explaining why, but I will if needed./
P.S. about the final round - it's unacceptable, if this is just my opinion, then it can be ignored (since I may not be on the list of players), all other points need to be clarified.
Unfortunately, the conditions of the competition require taking into account such situations - trains leave around 6-7 pm.
And a champion needs to be determined on time, playing the game on the train or online is much less acceptable than what I described.
In the last tournament, there was a story with the Pit-Vitalik game, which they couldn't finish because Pit had to leave. And I was given an unassignable task - control against a mosha. Luckily, it wasn't the final game, otherwise, they would still be arguing about it.
Kobra, if you don't see the truth behind why I wrote this, better stay silent please
Vic, I'll answer you tomorrow-today))
Added after 12 hours 48 minutes ONCE AGAIN: I'm not doing this for my own benefit, not for SoD players/don't know what SoD has to do with it, but that's apparently aimed at Kobra/. Clarifications won't hurt, and will save us from questions next time — is that possible? Wicc
Of course. There is no combat in this case, so growth does not give the red player an advantage.
WiccThat is, you can't attack at all, not even scout heroes.
What advantage can there be over a scout hero? Regardless of the new growth, it dies in the first round anyway. /situations vary, maybe you'll need to haste on an enemy mine etc and so on — we could also clarify about unguarded mines/ Wicc
On SM and Jebus Cross there are no computers. But on other templates, redraw is allowed.
(and computers) — agreed, too much unnecessary information:) Wicc
Since when is that growth... maybe an angel dwelling built on day 121 is also growth?
An analogy to your rules :): a bathhouse — a person who came to steam cannot use it if the bathhouse was preheated, BUT if the visitor brought his own firewood/coal and lit the bathhouse himself — steam to your health? another couple... :D
There are situations where it would be disadvantageous to flag certain external dwellings(a couple of harpies and minotaurs while having a dragon dwelling), but if the moment arises — shackles and a couple of unnecessary external dwellings, why not use them if the rules don't forbid it, and the battle will be the final one — after all, I didn't get that portal of summoning without dragons.
In the "Counted" and "Not Counted" sections — the same buildings! , meaning when the wind blows from the east, the army from that building IS considered growth(according to your rules), but when the wind blows from the north, the same army from the same building is NOT considered growth(also according to your words) --->Wicc
Since when is that growth...
---> so what is it, growth or not(no need to answer with a question here, just say: is it or isn't it)? REGARDLESS OF NATURAL CATACLYSMS Wicc
No need to complicate the rule unnecessarily. In this formulation it has been used for a long time. And it was the same in the previous CIS Championship.
Just because it's been used for a long time doesn't mean it's flawless for all time; SoD has also been around for a long time — but for some reason you DON'T play it.
And as for making it too complicated — one added word, understandable to everyone, a serious burden on the brain:smile40: Wicc
But the champion is needed on time; the option of finishing the game on the train or over the internet is much less acceptable than the one I described.
I can't believe it's you writing this, "captain" — don't hack Vic's account:D
what possible advantage could there be over a scout hero? regardless of the new growth, it dies in the first round anyway. /there are different situations, maybe you'll have to speed up at an enemy mine, etc., and so on - you could also clarify about unguarded mines/
This issue was discussed even before the last CIS Championship. We decided that rather than complicating the rule by somehow introducing the concept of "gives an advantage," it's better to just ban it outright. That's simpler for both players and judges, and it helps avoid unnecessary doubts, in-game questions, and all sorts of squabbles.
In the "Counted" and "Not Counted" items - these are the same buildings! So with an east wind, the army from this building IS considered growth (according to your rules), and with a north wind, the same army from the same building is NOT considered growth (also from your words) --->
Once again - everything that Red has built or captured on this turn is his first-turn bonus. Blue has his own bonuses.
Imagine a completely symmetrical setup - Red on day 117 captures his external dragon dwelling, builds a portal, and attacks, taking advantage of the fact that Blue hasn't taken his external dwelling yet. This is Red's advantage - a day of tempo. What makes day 121 worse than other days?
Or a more illustrative scenario - Red on day 121 takes 2 fat Griffin Conservatories and attacks. This could give Red a decisive advantage, yet this is not prohibited in any rules.
Only growth is prohibited, i.e., dwellings/external dwellings/portals where troops were present the previous week and grew on the first day. That fact is reflected in the rules. But what Red builds or captures from neutrals on that day is his own asset.
Just because something is old doesn't mean it's flawless for all time; SoD is also old - but for some reason you don't play it. And as for complicating things too much, one added word - clear to everyone - is a serious mental burden.
Changing the wording requires solid justification. There's no balance on random anyway, so where to draw the line between balance/imbalance is a matter of personal taste.
That's why when writing these rules, I opened the 2010 Championship rules, minimally adjusted them considering the specifics of Warriors of the North and a different list of templates, and also elaborated on a few points a bit more (to avoid confusion, since we have several newcomers here).
Yes, you can look for all sorts of imbalances in guards and contents. One player might have a crowd of Liches guarding an external dragon dwelling, while another has a crowd of Lich Lords - so what, now you can't take it? Or at the Michurinsk qualifier - I wanted to take a Dragon Utopia in the 2nd week, but the guard stopped me, which turned out to be nastier than the Utopia itself. So what now, ban taking Utopias if the guard is moved?
The rule about moved guards generates a lot of hassle over the fact that the guard of something is crappy, but running to clear it and then coming back for the loot (especially if it's on bad terrain) seems absurd in many situations. Therefore, they try to minimize the number of restrictions on this point. One extra word in the rule here will give a dozen episodes per tournament.
I can't believe you wrote this, "Captain," don't hack Vic's account
This issue was discussed even before the last CIS Championship. It was decided that rather than complicating the rule by introducing the concept of "gives an advantage" in some way, it’s better to simply forbid it and be done with it. It’s simpler for both players and judges, and it avoids unnecessary doubts, in-game questions, and all sorts of squabbling.
Are you just arguing with me without even reading what I’m writing? )) scorp
- Can unguarded mines be colored? /if they can, then it would be good to specify that as well/
-->Wicc
a) at Blue’s Castle (even if the Castle is unguarded). b) at Blue’s heroes or guarded mines
That is, attacking is not allowed at all, not even at lohs.
Wicc
a) at Blue’s Castle (even if the Castle is unguarded). b) at Blue’s heroes or guarded mines
That is, attacking is not allowed at all, not even at lohs.
Capturing unguarded mines is allowed.
Wicc
Once again - everything that Red built or captured on this turn is his first turn bonus. Blue has his own bonuses.
What does the advantage or disadvantage of a color have to do with it. Good quality from the respondents, not knowing how to correctly answer the question asked, they veer off into another topic, bringing up facts from a different subject. scorp
---> so, is this growth or not (no need to answer a question with a question here, just: is it or isn’t it)? REGARDLESS OF NATURAL CATACLYSMS
Wicc
Imagine a completely symmetrical setup - Red on 117...
I imagined it, answer: on playable templates, there are NONE. Wicc
Or a more telling scenario - Red on 121 takes 2 fat Griffin Conservatories and attacks. This could give Red a decisive advantage, yet this is not forbidden in any rules.
No one is arguing with that, why this information? :confused: More obfuscation again. :) Wicc
What makes 121 worse than other days?
The fact that you can’t attack with new growth, so we’re trying to figure out what constitutes growth and what doesn’t - the same army can’t be split across two fronts - it’s not logical.
- Commander, so are we going to war on 121? --- what’s the weather outside? - Rain. --- Get the troops ready from the external dwellings! Move it... - Sir... the rain has stopped, it’s clear weather. --- Ugh... those forecasters again... shoot ’em "censored" :D Wicc
To change the wording, you need solid reasons. There’s no balance in random anyway, so where to draw the line between balance/imbalance is a matter of personal taste.
Still haven’t figured out your taste, but that’s not so important - MORE IMPORTANT are the solid arguments!
There’s no need to make it a lottery of lucky/unlucky with guards - if it’s already dealt a good stack. The guards of these external dwellings aren’t 15 Gremlins, but quite serious - there’s NO need to use bugs - be so kind as to kill them too. Wicc
Yes, you can look for all sorts of imbalances in guards and contents. One player will have an external dwelling of dragons guarded by a horde of Liches, and another by a horde of Dendroids - so should he not take it then? Or at the Michurinsk qualifier - I wanted to take a Dragon Utopia in the 2nd week, but the guard, which turned out to be nastier than the Dragon Utopia itself, stopped me. So should we forbid taking Dragon Utopias past a displaced guard?
Right, you should pray before the game: that the guard moves away. Maybe we can add a button - "guard went to..., yes that’s right, a bit to the left". Wicc
The displaced guard rule creates a lot of hassle about the fact that the guard of something is crappy, but running to break through it and then coming back for the goodie (especially if it’s in bad territory) looks ridiculous in many situations. Therefore, they try to minimize the number of restrictions on this matter. One extra word in the rule here will give a dozen incidents per tournament.
On SM/Jebus Cross everything is fine with guards, everyone understands where the snack is and where the drinks are, what hassle are you talking about.
That’s the whole problem - the guard of the external dwelling is NOT crappy - you’re misinforming/obfuscating facts/tailoring it to your taste... you yourself wrote that the guard is more serious than the guarded object - so level up your skill, and don’t use bugs, don’t rely on luck/that is, don’t be lazy, you have good skill ))/ Wicc
Damn ... where did I get caught out like that? :D
:D :D :D yeah when you were writing about the throne
Yes, I tend to skim through your posts because their structure is too disjointed. Jokes and anecdotes are not appropriate in legal matters; a dry and precise presentation is needed.
You, too, don't seem to be trying to read my posts carefully. I clearly explained the difference between an increase and no increase. These are not the same troops. For example, a hidden stash of angels captured on day 117 and a hidden stash of angels captured on day 121 grant the right to exactly one angel in a battle against an opponent. Similarly, an angel dwelling built on day 117 and an angel dwelling built on day 121 grant the right to exactly one angel in a battle against an opponent. This is the meaning of the restriction on redraws.
Yes, I'm reading your posts a bit carelessly; their structure is too chaotic. Jokes and quips are not very appropriate in legal matters; a dry and strict presentation is needed.
You, however, also don't seem to be trying to read my posts carefully. I clearly explained the difference between an increase and no increase. These are not the same troops. For example, a hidden stash of angels captured on day 117 and a hidden stash of angels captured on day 121 give the right to exactly one angel in a battle with an opponent. Similarly, an angel dwelling built on day 117 and an angel dwelling built on day 121 give the right to exactly one angel in a battle with an opponent. This is the meaning of the restriction on redraws.
Well, I didn't ask about the difference between an increase; the question was yes or no, not the difference!
Such jokes arise because of the lack of a DIRECT answer to the questions asked and a shift to some irrelevant topics.
THERE IS NO NEED to invent questions for which you know the answer!!!
I don't often write under the nickname Vika ;) Vika, you don't need to change the password to this site - it will only help for 12-15 hours anyway, until my computer figures it out :)
But seriously, Red took a hideout on 121, and so what? Can't he attack Blue with troops from that hideout? Then Red shouldn't attack Blue with troops at all, if they were obtained on the same day :) Like, on 112, I'll build lizards in the swamp and accidentally attack Blue with lizards :)
Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.
2 Vic. Yes, Yur, since finalists are playing for prizes — what about hints? I've witnessed how tournament games sometimes turned into a joint engaging walkthrough of the map, with people even moving the mouse for the player.
Option 1. Let them give hints. Option 2. No hints at all, first a warning, then kick them out of the hall. Option 3. Let them give hints, but for the final-battle a judge is present, no hints.
I'm writing this because in 2003 in Krasnodar, Mystic and Dilvish played for a spot in the semifinals. I listened a bit later in real life as they discussed that game and concluded that Dilvish was actually winning. But back then Dilvish lost. He was assaulting Tower in the final-battle after a long game and got stuck on the idea that he couldn't go on the mines, even though the Cloak of Anti-Magic was equipped. Everyone in the club saw it, but he was stuck on it. This happens often in chess, when everyone sees the winning move except the player themselves.
6)Well, and now our common funniest mistake (the guys standing behind us periodically had great bewilderment because of this). We both forgot that the mines lying by the walls of Tower are third-level magic, meaning they won't trigger when crossed and certainly won't stop the movement of any creature. You should have seen with your own eyes how a pile of undead on Dilvish's side stood in front of the destroyed walls and waited for the gate to be broken down Very Happy. It went on for at least about 5 turns.
So, one hint back then would have changed the result of the game.
How are we going to handle it now? Because a person who loses due to hints and misses out on money could cause a ruckus.
The main thing is that the players giving hints shouldn't see the layout from the opposite side – they should be punished for that with a candelabra.
Otherwise, let them give hints; it's part of the communication (especially if it's done in a teasing way), and it can also improve skills – the opponent can also learn something interesting for themselves based on the nature of the hints.
Of course, we will deal with particularly annoying hint-givers, but it's impossible to keep track of every little hint, so I don't see any point in banning them altogether.
The main thing is that the people giving hints don't see the situation from the other side – they should be hit with a candelabra for that.
Of course, we will punish particularly malicious hint-givers, but it's impossible to keep track of every little hint, so I don't see the point in banning them altogether.
We're relying on the players and guests to be decent. Because it's really impossible to fight this.
Otherwise, let them give hints; it's part of the communication (especially if it's in the form of teasing), and it can also improve skills – the opponent can also learn something interesting from the nature of the hints.
The players will be sitting quite far apart, so the opponent won't hear anything. But if, say, a couple of top players are standing around one, chatting, while the other doesn't have any of these top players... then it will be tough for him. Okay, let's see how it goes. Don't count on me too much; I haven't played VT much. I'm in charge of organizational matters, meeting guests, and arranging their accommodation and leisure activities.
I don't know how well the club's layout will allow for players to be seated directly opposite each other, but that would be the most optimal arrangement. This adds realism to the game, allows for communication during the game, and helps to resolve disputes more quickly, etc. Also, the opponent has the opportunity to observe the hints being used.
I don't know how well the club's layout will allow for players to be seated opposite each other, which would be ideal. This adds realism to the game, allows for communication during the game, and helps to resolve disputes more quickly, etc. Plus, the opponent has the opportunity to observe the hints.
Unfortunately, pairs of players will be in practically different rooms, with a wall between them. It would be great if the players were seated opposite each other, as it was in "Legion," as you saw. But we need to accommodate many players; only half of them would fit in "Legion." An internet center with 34 computers and a few more connections for laptops would be more suitable.
scorp
