- A reference guide and manual in Russian for Heroes 3. — General

5.0 (1 rating)

AmberSoler

5/22/2006 2:35 PM UTC

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Greetings to all fans of the Heroes of Might & Magic III universe!

I would like to invite you to participate in a project dedicated to creating a reference guide for HoMM III.

The topic itself is not new. There are many individual resources dedicated to describing the physics of the Heroes world, but despite all efforts, it is extremely difficult to find an information source that can be unequivocally classified as a reference guide.

This work does not claim to be original and is the result of compiling various official (Player's Manual) and unofficial (forums and websites) sources dedicated to describing the internal world of the game.

The file in Excel and PDF formats can be found at the following link:
http://vk.com/fizmig

At the moment, the work on the project is not yet fully completed, if it is even possible to complete it... :) Therefore, I would be grateful if anyone would like to participate in it and share their opinions, knowledge, and advice. An updated version of the document will be posted at the specified address for all those who wish. A link to the author will definitely be included. :)

Not all the information provided in this reference guide can be considered official, because it contains observations and assessments of players who wished to share their opinions about the features of the game. But, nevertheless, in general, it достаточно realistically reflects the physics of the Heroes world and will undoubtedly be useful to any beginner.

Given the above, any comments, clarifications, and explanations are welcome. Any suggestions regarding a more optimal form of presenting the information provided will also be valuable.

Sincerely,
AmberSoler

alikov temik

3/26/2011 10:10 AM UTC

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It would be great to have verified data. Assumptions are not what you want to see in a reference guide. There are already too many assumptions there. ))

I will definitely check and post the results when I have time.

alikov temik

3/29/2011 3:07 PM UTC

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I believe the probability is 50%...

I was wrong
Each of the 6 hero specialists with ballista can either receive it or not, and the probability of not receiving the ballista is lower.
On average, in 10 replays, the hero does not receive the ballista 2 times, so the probability is clearly more than 50% and is likely 75-85%.

zoog

4/1/2011 1:49 PM UTC

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And here’s another interesting point. If a road runs strictly horizontally or vertically, there are no problems with determining its boundaries. However, when it runs diagonally, you can move along the road itself or one cell above its line without leaving the road. In other words, it effectively doubles in width, and this isn’t mentioned anywhere. Also, I recently watched a video where an experienced player rather daringly attacked a group of demons with a scout to avoid leaving the diagonal road – it seems not everyone knows or pays attention to this.

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In reply to zoog

AmberSoler

4/1/2011 6:21 PM UTC

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Tootsie Pie

And here's another interesting point. If the road runs strictly horizontally or vertically, there are no problems with determining its boundaries. However, when it runs diagonally, you can move along the road itself or one cell above its line without leaving the road. That is, it expands by a factor of 2, and this is not noted anywhere. Moreover, I recently watched a video in which an experienced player rather riskily attacked a group of demons with a scout to avoid leaving the diagonal road – it turns out that not everyone knows or pays attention to this.

No. I think these are all graphics-related issues. The mechanics of calculating movement along the road are strict.

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zoog

4/2/2011 1:04 AM UTC

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Here's what I mean:

Another question: does anyone know anything useful about the skill trees? How many are there per hero, and is it possible to view or extract them?

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In reply to zoog

Dirty_Player

4/2/2011 2:43 AM UTC

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Yeah, there is this thing with roads. Nothing too special about it. There are 255 trees per hero. AlexSPL extracted them a long time ago. But what's the point?

In reply to zoog

AmberSoler

4/2/2011 8:13 AM UTC

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Tootsie Pie

This is what I mean:

Only above the road? Does this trick not work below?

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RiMpel2

4/2/2011 9:56 AM UTC

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Let's say it's a matrix where, to move from cell A1 to B2, you need to follow the path A1-A2-B2; that is, there's no direct movement from A1 to B2. (This is just my assumption.)

$an4es

4/2/2011 1:23 PM UTC

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The manual does not mention the Artillery skill. A hero with this skill can control towers in a city during a siege (I don't know if it increases the damage of the towers).

In reply to Dirty_Player

zoog

4/2/2011 1:27 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player

Yeah, there is this thing with roads. Nothing criminal about it.

It's not criminal. It's just that not everyone seems to know about it, despite how obvious it is, and therefore it can lead to unnecessary glitches. I think it should be mentioned in the reference guide.

Dirty_Player

There are 255 trees for each hero. AlexSPL extracted them a long time ago. But what are they for?

What are they not for? You can calculate the real (not manual) probability of land/logistics appearing. For example, I noticed that clerics get land disproportionately often - that's not right. And by analyzing the trees of the first 10 levels (there should be an order of magnitude less than 255 of them), you can create a reliable table of "hero weights" - I only have a theoretical one. Can you give me a hint - where can I get these uprooted trees?

AmberSoler

Only above the road? Does this trick not work below?

No, below, the hero's hooves don't even visually touch the road.

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Marmot

4/2/2011 1:51 PM UTC

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Tootsie Pie, I agree, information about the skill trees is useful, but this system is quite "obscure" in the sense that it largely depends on chance, and it is not obvious what the game will "give" you when you level up.
There is a special utility called AboutHeroes3, which indicates the probability of skills appearing for each hero (as in section 1.4 of PhysMiGa).
At the end of this page http://heroes.ag.ru/h3/ there is a brief description and a link to download http://heroes.ag.ru/h3/utils/AboutHeroes3.rar
There is also a small brochure in English called "Leveling-Up in Heroes of Might and Magic III", which describes the game's algorithm for choosing a skill when leveling up.

In general, in my opinion, these trees are the first thing that should be "uprooted" from the game! How many times has my hero not received the urgently needed earth magic or wisdom! It is not for nothing that they added the Time Market in WoG, which allows you to get rid of unnecessary skills for money, which the game "forced" on you.

Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було…
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)

In reply to Marmot

AmberSoler

4/2/2011 3:21 PM UTC

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Tootsie Pie

How is that even possible? You can calculate the actual (not manual) probability of getting Earth Magic/Logistics.

Marmot

Tootsie Pie, I agree, information about the skill trees is useful, but this system is quite "obscure" in the sense that it largely depends on chance, and it's not obvious what the game will "give" you when you level up.

How many times has my hero not received the desperately needed Earth Magic or Wisdom!

The skill tree is fixed for each hero when the starting save is created and does not change during the game (exceptions are noted below). It's not very difficult to determine the optimal skill build for a specific hero by trial and error before starting the game. This applies to offline play. In online play, no one relies on leveling up a specific secondary skill for their hero. I don't understand how information about the probability of getting one skill or another will help you in the game. It either exists, or it doesn't - and it's quite possible to check.

The skill tree is only "broken" in the case of obtaining a secondary skill for the Witch, the Scholar, at the University, or when a quest set by the map author is triggered.

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Marmot

4/2/2011 4:22 PM UTC

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AmberSoler, all of this is true, but if in online play, individual skills are not as important, then in offline play, especially on custom maps of sizes L and XL, they often become decisive, i.e., to complete the map, a certain skill is necessary. And trying to "find the optimal skill build for a specific hero through trial and error" is not a very flattering term. I was simply expressing my opinion about the system created by the game developers.

In reply to Marmot

AmberSoler

4/2/2011 10:18 PM UTC

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Marmot

AmberSoler, all of this is true, but if in online play, individual skills aren't that important, then in offline play, especially on custom maps of sizes L and XL, they often become decisive, i.e., to complete the game, you need a specific skill. And the phrase "finding the optimal skill build for a hero through trial and error" is not a very nice way to put it – it's called "grinding." I'm just expressing my opinion about the system created by the game developers.

Don't get me wrong, but if the developers had made a mistake by allowing the player to control the recruitment of the desired hero and the construction of secondary skills, then even now, Solmyr and Tanty would still rule the world. It was the need to delve into and optimize the game scheme, which was initially written "poorly," that allowed our hero community to emerge. I disagree – because if you were given the choice of having a deterministic set of skills or a probabilistic one, I believe you would leave chance as the only acceptable option. The guarantee of obtaining the desired skill at a certain level would kill all the interest in the game "for fun." If the goal is to win, then whether you like it or not, you will have to use all the skills of "grinding." I called offline play a game against a real opponent – a game focused on results, where optimization is necessary. We consider playing against AI as a game for fun; preliminary preparation is, of course, not relevant there. There, a random outcome is much more interesting, which at least slightly increases the chances of the poor AI..

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zoog

4/3/2011 1:56 AM UTC

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In online games, no one focuses on leveling up a specific secondary skill for their hero. I don't understand how information about the probability of a particular skill appearing will help you in the game. It either exists or it doesn't, and it's quite possible to check.

Why, then, do people try to develop Barbarians/Beasts/Lords/Wanderers? Because they have a higher chance of getting good skills. With this information, you could actually find out, for example, that this class has a 10% chance of getting Logistics, while _this hero of the same class_ only has a 2% chance (the range could be very large). That is, at the start, I can say that Tunar's "weight" is 80 units, and Marius's "weight" is 95, so it's clear which one is more profitable to develop.

In general, I think these skill trees are the first thing that should be "uprooted" from the game! How many times has my hero not received the urgently needed Earth Magic or Wisdom! It's not for nothing that WoG added the Market of Time, which allows you to get rid of unwanted skills for money, "forced" on you by the game.

It is precisely the need to delve into and optimize the game scheme, which was initially written "poorly," that allowed our hero community to emerge...

[off]I am also very upset by the flawed skill development, but to butcher the game's balance because something is inconvenient for you, to cancel morality for neutrals, is unethical in my opinion.[/off]

Added 1 hour 57 minutes ago

Dirty_Player

Kreg Hack and Tazar, both level 20, with the same parameters, expert attack, and defense, deal the same damage to each other!

Let Kreg and Tazar be at the same level, with the same parameters and units. Damage from an attacker to an armorer: (1+0.3*(1+lvl/20))*(1-0.15(1+lvl/20))
return damage: 1 (i.e., equal to the base)
let's calculate: the same damage at lvl = -20 and 46,(6), then Kreg falls behind, and at level 113, Tazar would become invulnerable)
But, in my opinion, defense is so effective because of incorrect rounding at some stage of damage calculation.

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