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#2150
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Wlk777
Yeah, 3% to the Troglodyte's life will be a significant boost :D :D :D. Maybe it should be the other way around? ;)
Did you read Vik's post above? It makes sense to increase the variety of starting heroes, or even heroes that aren't starting ones, so there are more options to switch to. I agree with him – these Miners are already getting on my nerves in the reports. So, instead of a boost, we need a "reduction." There are a lot of great heroes like Dasa, Alkin, Clancy, and many others, and we'd like to be able to use them, like with Val, who is taken because of her bows, but then people often switch to more promising heroes. Maybe my solution to the problem isn't great, but it could be a direction to consider. The only problem is Brok, who ruins the whole picture. Maybe we should just remove 25% from him as an exception? Then he would be a normal, good hero, but not overpowered.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
In reply to Javdet
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#2151
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Javdet
Did you read the post above from Vik?
I haven't been reading Vikk's posts for a long time.
Javdet
Did you read the post above from Vik? There is a point in increasing the range of starting heroes, or even not just starting ones, but so there would be someone to switch to. Here I agree with him - I'm already sick of these Miners in reports.. That's why we need not an increase but a "decrease". After all, there are plenty of great heroes like Das, Alkin, Clancy and others.., and we'd like to use them, kind of like with Vale, who is taken because of the archers, but then they often jump to more promising ones.
The Miner will still be the starting hero. And jumping to Das or Crag will still happen as opportunities arise; the Troglodyte HP bonus has little effect on that. But adding 3% to them is a joke. From 0 to 16% the result will be zero =)
Javdet
Maybe my solution itself isn't great, but as a direction for thought it might work.. it's just that Brogh ruins the whole picture)) Maybe for that bastard, we should just remove the 25% entirely as an exception? Then he'd be a regular good hero but not imbalanced.
Oh no, if we give the level 6 monster specialists a 10% boost, then it will be just fine. IMHO=[U]

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numOne
That specialists need to be nerfed is 100% certain.
I suggest the following system: instead of 25% for everyone, we set 1 health for level 1, 2 for level 2, and so on. So Mary will have a bonus of 4 health, and Brogh - 6. This would logically nerf the two main specialists while not shortchanging the others.

Regarding Rashka, Sinka, Clancy and Fafner - I completely agree with Dvavdet - they need to be buffed. The heroes are promising, but such trash skills that it's painful to even look at.

I would give Logistics specialists a permanent bonus of 10% instead of 5.
+1
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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#2152
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Wlk777
I haven't read Vic's posts for a long time.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I wouldn't read them either if I were you :D
Wlk777
The Behemoth will still be the starting creature. And people will still switch to Das or Crag as soon as possible; the Troglodyte's HP bonus has little effect on this. But adding 3% to them is a joke. From 0 to 16% the result will be zero =)
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I wrote just above that the idea is raw, especially when it comes to the numbers.. I agree that 3% is nothing, but you can sit down, calculate, and figure out the right number. And calculate %% not for a single Troglodyte, but for the entire stack.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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#2153
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Javdet
Did you read Vika’s post above? It makes sense to increase the range of starting heroes, or even not starting ones, so there would be someone to switch to. I agree with him – these Miners are already getting on my nerves in the reports. Therefore, what is needed is not an increase, but a “decrease.” After all, there are many excellent heroes like Das, Alkin, Clancy, and many others, and I would like to use them, like with Vale, who is taken because of her bows, but then they often switch to more promising heroes.
Well, the absence of a health bonus (and preferably an increase) will give the opportunity to focus more on the skills that appear, rather than on special abilities.

The current special abilities for monsters simply tie the player to the starting hero – they don’t want to lose the health bonus and increase, so they have to level up, even if the skills are not that good.

Das and the others don’t lose much from this, rather they gain – the chances of becoming a “father” increase if you catch a Logu, a Scout, etc. The health bonus for the Mentors is not enough here – there are too few of them if they don’t have a hiding place.
In reply to numOne
#2154
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numOne


Regarding Russia, China, Clancy, and Fafnir – I completely agree with Javdet – we need to improve them. The heroes are promising, but the skills are so poor that it's painful to even look at.

What's particularly striking is that hero 3 has intelligence... what could that be for... maybe to take it away from the demons? By the way, it's strange that the warrior heroes – Russia and Octashka – have intelligence, and Russia also has wisdom, and these are warrior demons, which is very illogical, and intelligence doesn't really suit China either... he's a warrior too.

In general, by level 6, only Turis and maybe Tamika have decent skills (Brogh with a monster is not counted :lol: because they are overpowered).
I had a game here, playing as Yog, and a hidden orc lair combined with a well-developed ballista worked very well. The orcs were like shooting with a golden bow, it was easy to take cities, by the end of week 3, I had about 50 orcs, and I was destroying everything...
Инфа о разных моих проектах, по большей части геройских, тут http://phomm.narod.ru
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#2155
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Who said Inferno is a mid-tier faction in WT? :confused:
In WT, Inferno was clearly reworked; it competes on par with Fortress, even ATG said so!
Standard scenario for MM6: about 50 goats on the first week, 100+ on the second, and any Dragon Utopia is ours, along with all Griffin Conservatories/Dragon Fly Hives along the way—who else can do that in WT???
Inferno's patch, the significant unit cost reductions, as well as the absence of the H2 building for Pit upgrades and the imbalanced Marusya, do the job, and honestly, if this town were played properly, we'd be thinking about fixing it sooner than Fortress and Brogha.
Personally, I like the IDEA of WT, but I don't like that a strategic game was turned into a linear version... finally—I agree with the posts by Lider1, Dirty_Player, Javdet, NomOne, and Satira.
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#2156
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readme
Standard scenario for MM6: on the first something like 50 goats, on the second something like 100+ and any Dragon Utopia is ours, along the way all Griffin Conservatories/Dragon Fly Hives, who else can do that on BT???
You probably know something about Inferno that I don't :). Teach me plz how to get 50 demons on the 1st and 100 on the 2nd (at least 1 game out of 10). 'Cause I can't do it.

If anything - I'm ready in future games to provide Inferno and color to anyone who wants, while I take something more sensible. Since there's such a group of Marusya fans gathered here :).
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#2157
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Yeah, it seems a bit too harsh. On Jebus, maybe it was possible to get around 50, on a regular map, starting with Fortress, I managed to get around 45. But 100 on the second week seems a bit much. Under normal circumstances, it should be around 70-80 on the second week (not Jebus).
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#2158
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On the first week, it makes no sense to kill demons at all. On the second week, yes, that's the main activity; on average layouts, you get around 50-60 (8mm6). If 70 or more, then the layout is clearly above average. Plus, there are also below-average cases when you don't get to Demonology.

As a result, the pace of taking Dragon Utopias is roughly the same as for other towns – on average, end of week 2 or beginning of week 3.

I don't see any imba here at all. Yes, there are layouts where everything goes like clockwork – lots of chests, plenty of money, creature cutting goes smoothly, and by week 1 day 2/3 you're already dropping Utopias in batches. But that's very rare. On average, it's much more modest.

The statistics of games for Inferno in tournaments like RP confirm that. As does the fact that many players prefer to start with Fiona and handle creature cutting on an optional basis.
In reply to readme
#2159
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readme
Who said Inferno is mediocre on WT? :confused:
On WT Inferno has clearly been reworked, it competes on par with Swamp, even ATG said so!
Standard scenario for mm6: about 50 goats on the first, about 100+ on the second and any Dragon Utopia is ours, plus all Griffin Conservatories/Dragon Fly Hives along the way, who else can do that on WT???
Inferno's patch, unit cost reductions, significant ones at that, as well as the lack of a GM2 building for Pit upgrades and the imbalanced Marusya do their job, and really, if this town were played decently, we'd be thinking about fixing it sooner than Swamp and Brogha.
Personally, I like the IDEA of WT, but I don't like that a strategy game has been turned into a linear version... finally, I agree with the posts by Lider1, Dirty_Player, Javdet, NomOne, and Satira.
1) ATG has the right to say that, because of skill. I don't know who else could say that and I would agree with him.
2) Readme (censored) is wrong about 50 goats on the first week on mm6, any experienced player knows that. Besides the fact that culling goats on the first week is a very debatable, in my opinion most often negative move, although different situations do occur.
3) Don't forget that Inferno's piercing power in the first week is quite mediocre. Except maybe Fiona stands strong: Marius only needs 3-4 shooter blocks and things get very bad.
IMHO a normal Inferno town, not imbalanced, perhaps one of the most interesting ones today on any template.
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#2160
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Hmm, I often use an 8/6/6 build and it works well against demons. With this build, you can also break through ranged units, and demons start gaining experience faster.
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#2161
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Samurai
1) ATG is right to say that, because it's a skill. I don't know who else could say that and I would agree with them.
2) Readme (censored) is wrong about 50 goats on the first week in MM6; any experienced player knows this. Besides the fact that cutting goats on the first week is quite debatable, in my opinion it's often a losing move, although there are different situations.
3) Don't forget that Inferno's offensive power on the first week is quite average. Unless Fiona is standing firm: Marius only needs 3-4 ranged units and things get very bad.
In my opinion, Inferno is a normal Castle, not overpowered, and perhaps one of the most interesting ones today on any map.


If you don't know how to play Inferno, then don't start arguing about who is right and who is wrong, okay?
I've tried cutting goats on the first week many times, and there are always around 50 of them by day 117, on a standard map or in MM6. Learn to play this Castle, that's the whole point.
By the way, ATG himself said that cutting on the first week is necessary in a standard map.

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Wicc
You probably know something about Inferno that I don't :). Please teach me how to get 50 demons on the 1st week and 100 on the 2nd (at least in 1 out of 10 games). Because I don't know how.

If anything, I'm ready to provide Inferno and any other faction to anyone who wants in future games, and I'll take something more sensible for myself. Since there's such a group of Marius fans here :).

No problem! You just need to "grab" as many gray villages and secondary resources as possible, and also take hidden resources, that is, direct the game towards this, thus putting other moves at a disadvantage, but in return you will have demons and there will be no argument that it is impossible...
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#2162
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If, in the 1st week, it were possible to summon 50 demons for Inferno in at least 20% of games, it would be bought for a fortune, ignoring all sorts of weaklings like Brogh, Gosha, etc. There are not enough hiding places and weak secondary units for this. You can simply count based on damage – 50 demons is 1750 damage. The starting army has approximately 900 damage. An average, usable secondary unit has another 150-200 damage (if not upgraded). If upgraded, it's a bit more. Plus, there's a correction for errors in summoning and losses on neutral territories (almost inevitable with such a small army as Inferno's). Roughly estimating, this error is 20-50%, depending on the situation. Therefore, summoning 50 demons in the 1st week is possible, but only in some incredibly favorable circumstances, or through Pandora's Box with demons.
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#2163
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Wicc
If on week 1 for Inferno you could grind out 50 demons in at least 20% of games, people would buy it for crazy cash, ignoring all sorts of schmucks like Brogh, Gosha, etc.

External dwellings and empty secondary heroes are radically insufficient for this. You can just calculate by hit points — 50 demons is 1750 HP. The starting army is about 900 HP. An average edible secondary hero is another 150-200 HP (if not built up). If you build them up, then a bit more.

Plus an adjustment for the variance in grinding and losses on neutrals (almost inevitable with such a puny army as Inferno's). I'd roughly estimate this variance at 20-50% depending on the spawn. So all in all, gathering 50 demons by week 1 may be possible, but only in some megabonanza, or through a Pandora's box with demons.


Almost guessed it, that's the essence of the strategy, and it shifts from what we're used to towards grinding itself. If you're playing on SM-c, say, spawned at the top, you usually get many external dwellings from the random spawn on W2, plus you can clear both secondary heroes on week one, virtually without losses, and there are also secondary hero external dwellings (often), plus you need to build secondaries up to level 3-4, and at home 1-5 in the Citadel/Castle. So do the math, where I was grinding that fifty :)
Of course, you won't always get fifty, but more often you'll have at least about 40 by day 1-1-7, and you can even muster fifty if you get a bit lucky with the layout and set the strategy correctly...
And since few people know about this and few know how to do it, they don't believe in it and underestimate this town on random, and don't sell it for "crazy cash" :)
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#2164
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I haven't tested it on the small map, but based on general considerations, I assume that even with reduced requirements of 40 units, they will still only be satisfied in scenarios that are noticeably above average. I can even offer a bet - you start on the small map as the red Marius (without the Inferno patch), say, 6 times, streaming everything that happens on MyKO. You need to collect 40 demons by day 117 in half of the cases (3 times). The stakes are negotiable. Maybe someone else will want to join on the same terms.