Sylvan vs. Necropolis — Sylvan

Ment

9/19/2010 12:43 PM UTC

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VIRU$

You know, I think your opponent just doesn't know how to play Necropolis...

Hey! Who's bashing the Elves here? :smile14:
Seriously though: I believe that two duelists, one of whom plays Haven perfectly, and the other plays Necropolis, will inevitably end the match with the first one winning.
P.S. I won't be surprised if people start providing arguments to refute this. They might even be very well-reasoned. But I'm warning you in advance: they won't affect me. :D

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In reply to Ment

KillAndAction

9/19/2010 4:37 PM UTC

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A strange and incomprehensible answer... Is it possible to provide a more reasoned response?

Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
Сервер в Discord
Стрим на twitch.tv
Стрим на GG

ЛИДЕР Клана"ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Рейтинг: Латник
Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"

Ment

9/20/2010 8:01 AM UTC

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I just know from experience that Elves are very, very strong. I believe that Terrors are their only worthy opponents. Argument: quality is better than quantity. Necropolis has a large number of units, but the quality is lacking. Let me give an example: Knights usually have a larger army than Elves, but the quality is worse (although compared to the undead, it is much better). I experienced a duel between a Knight and an Elf in the 3rd campaign when the Elves attacked Isabel. I wasn't ready for the battle at the time, but my army was exactly twice the size of the Elven army. Isabel was level 24 – she was definitely better developed than the attacking Elf. The difficulty was set to Warrior. That is, no matter how stupid I was, I was still smarter than the AI. And I lost three times. Nothing helped. I had to call in Markel for reinforcements – his army was still four times larger at that time. With him, I, of course, defeated the Elves. But this case is very telling. I'm saying that quality is better than quantity.

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In reply to Ment

KillAndAction

9/20/2010 8:20 AM UTC

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In my opinion, there isn't a faction in Heroes that is definitively better than another. Otherwise, there wouldn't be much point to the game... The only thing that matters is the player's experience, the specific situation, and so on. The example given is clearly not representative: completing campaigns is more like an adventure, a quiet walk down the street, compared to online battles... ;)

Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
Сервер в Discord
Стрим на twitch.tv
Стрим на GG

ЛИДЕР Клана"ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Рейтинг: Латник
Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"

In reply to Ment

Саня Изи

9/20/2010 3:31 PM UTC

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Ment

Knights usually have a larger army than elves, but the quality is worse (although compared to the undead, it is much better).

I can't agree with the statement that the undead army has poor quality. The issue isn't the quality of the units, but the hero's skills. Without the "Bless" spell, what could the elves even do? Or the runes of the dwarves? Or the "Logistics" skill of humans? The problem is that the racial ability of a Necromancer – necromancy – has fewer drawbacks compared to the racial abilities of other heroes. Of course, you can use mentorship to develop this skill, which will provide more benefits, but this is not always achievable. And the claim that the undead units are bad is nonsense. Take liches or wraiths, for example – some of the most expensive units. The others compensate for their "low" quality with their cost and growth rate. But overall, the units of the Necropolis are solid mid-range units.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

In reply to Саня Изи

KillAndAction

9/21/2010 10:48 AM UTC

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In my opinion, the racial ability of the Necropolis has just as many drawbacks as the racial abilities of other factions in Heroes...

Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
Сервер в Discord
Стрим на twitch.tv
Стрим на GG

ЛИДЕР Клана"ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Рейтинг: Латник
Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"

In reply to Ment

Ereb

9/21/2010 11:35 AM UTC

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Ment

I just know from experience that the Elves are very, very strong. I believe that the Knights are their only worthy rivals.
Argument: quality is better than quantity. The Necromancers have a large quantity, but the quality is lacking.
Let me give an example: the Knights usually have a larger army than the Elves, but the quality is worse (although compared to the Undead, it is much better).

:smile40:
The Elves are strong, there is no doubt about that, but to the point that even the Knights and Necromancers are left behind! (IMHO) that's an exaggeration!:smile19:
The Necromancers and Knights have excellent chances against the Elves, as both races can easily learn DARKNESS!
Necromancers:
1. Abilities like incorporeality, stunning, mournful wail, raising the dead for liches, and death cloud completely negate any mention of quality!
2. Quantity and decent defense)))
3. Experts in darkness!
(The problem is just clumsy hands!)
A little off-topic (sorry admins):
Knights:
1. Attack and defense are maxed out! Unlike the Elves, who put everything into defense and knowledge!
2. Light and dark magic combined is simply awesome against the Elves! Quality???... hahaha...
1. Militia (they bring gold, a lot of it, and can also stun)
2. Archers (damage 2-8 - doesn't that remind you of something?) direct shot!
3. Footmen (defense of allies + evasion (in the defense skill) - the Forest creatures are resting!)
4. Griffins fly, everyone runs!
5. Strong casters don't bother anyone!
6. One of the strongest attacking units (and they say they are worse than the Forest creatures!) tournament strike and that's it!
7. Resurrection or divine vengeance, whatever you like!
...You made me laugh!:smile40: :smile40:

За кланы! За кровь!

In reply to KillAndAction

Саня Изи

9/21/2010 4:25 PM UTC

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KillAndAction

In my opinion, the racial ability of Necropolis has just as many drawbacks as the racial abilities of other factions in Heroes...

The racial ability of Necromancers could be quite good, and perhaps even overpowered, if it weren't for the meager amount of dark energy it generates for long games. While other racial abilities only become stronger in long games, the influence of Necromancy on the game actually weakens. In other words, Necromancy is only effective at the beginning of the game, where you can raise hordes of skeletons, for example, and win because of it. Later, in the late game, 3-4 specters raised per week no longer make a difference, while an elf can easily strengthen his sworn enemy to the point that no amount of Necromancy is enough to raise enough creatures to counter him, given his racial ability.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

Ganseng

9/21/2010 6:11 PM UTC

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Perhaps a racial ability for Necromancers would be a good addition, or even an overpowered one.

It was indeed overpowered before patch 2.1.

Mish-gan

9/21/2010 6:46 PM UTC

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My opinion on the matchup between Stronghold and Necromancer:
EARLY GAME - 10% advantage for Necropolis (Kaspar, tent, raising undead)
MID GAME - 50/50, slight advantage for a friendly game (depends a lot on neutral creatures and artifacts)
LATE GAME (with a mentor) - 40/60 advantage for Necropolis (the Cry skill is very effective with Deidre)
LATE GAME (without a mentor) - 30/70 advantage for Necropolis (it's clear here - they have more meat, and Stronghold has little chance to develop properly).

Саня Изи

9/23/2010 11:01 AM UTC

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Well, I don't know, I really don't. With several castles, the Necropolis definitely has a better chance, but with just one castle, I have serious doubts. Especially if they're up against Wing.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

Ereb

9/23/2010 1:55 PM UTC

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The Necromancer should have at least two castles, otherwise it's a guaranteed loss!!!! (I tested it myself. Racial bonuses won't save you when the hero is level 34 and it's the 5th month of the game!). Then the chances are 50/50... because the Elf's racial bonus increases (especially if it's the Archmage). The same goes for Anwen; she's no joke! I agree with :smile16: 50% - 50% :smile24: no more, no less! Against Deidre, probably 40%-60% in favor of the Necromancer; I'm just not sure if the Shout can counter the Elf's Archmage, but still! Against Wing, 60%-40% in favor of the Elf) Or not?

За кланы! За кровь!

In reply to Ereb

Саня Изи

9/23/2010 2:16 PM UTC

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Ereb

I checked it myself. Racial bonuses won't save you when the hero is level 34 and it's month 5.

Well... You don't know Necromancers very well. It all depends on the map and the number of neutral creatures. A level 34 Necromancer with 5 months of development is a paradise for Necromancer fans. Especially if there are a couple of Dracoliches and a Mentor.

Added after 8 minutes

Ereb

Even Anven is quite strong! I agree: :smile16: 50% - 50%:smile24: no more, no less!

Regarding Wing, I would still be hesitant, but Anven, despite having a decent ability, isn't a hero I would bet on in a battle against a Necromancer. Initiative and speed decide everything here. In particular, Wingeal's first-strike tactic can easily determine the outcome of the battle, while Avnwen, with reduced initiative and defense, will painfully try to attack the cursed ones. I played as Necromancers with two Castles against Wing, and in the end, the Necromancer had an army almost three times larger than the Elven one. I made many rough tactical mistakes, but I still won. God forbid that Orcs become a secondary base for the Necromancer. This means a huge number of Skeletons and Liches. Moreover, if you focus on raising them, this is the main force against archers and druids.

Added after 1 minute

Ereb

With Daedra, probably 40%-60% in favor of the Necromancer. I'm just not sure if Scream can counter the Elf's СА, but still!

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately for the Elves), Daedra's ability does not affect the Elves' СА.

Added after 2 minutes

Ereb

With Wing - 60% - 40% in favor of the Elf) Or not?

Well, if you want to check, play against a good Necromancer, say on Earth lands. He will have 2 Castles, and you will have one. Then you can test it out.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

Ereb

9/24/2010 2:14 PM UTC

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I disagree, because in essence, Haven will have more units than the Elves. With spell-casting enemies, the damage will be insane! 50%-50% (IMO!).

За кланы! За кровь!

In reply to Ereb

Саня Изи

9/24/2010 5:51 PM UTC

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Ereb

I disagree, especially since Haven will essentially have more units than the Elves! The damage from spells against enemies will be insane! 50%-50% (IMO!)

Do you think Haven will have more initiative in the final battle than Wing? I doubt it. It's very easy to reduce initiative. Just use a Cloak of Death, Staff of the Underworld + Banshee's Cry + mass slow. I agree that the damage dealt by Elves to sworn enemies will be significant, but you still have to get to the sworn enemies, and with 50%-70% reduced initiative, -11 defense, and berserk, it will be difficult to do. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but Wing, in my opinion, is a stronger hero than Haven, and with 2 castles and a good setup, Wing can be defeated by Necromancers without any problems.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

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