Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.

Let's see what the Arbitration Committee will say. I would also like to share my opinion, but for that, I would like to know if bijho saw a message that the opponent left the game before the battle with Kirr, and how quickly the opponent's units made their moves, whether they used the artifact "Chains of War" during the battle, and how many rounds the battle lasted? It's unlikely that the opponent would attack with only angels; he was probably using them to gain momentum. And even if he did attack, to kill some of the troops with magic and then retreat, he probably would have retreated. And here's another interesting point: if the hydras were a "Guard of Order" unit that Kirr was attacking, how long did that battle last? Most likely, the opponent experienced a disconnect, and if he disconnected, bijho should have loaded the auto-save. If it was just an internet connection issue, then Andrey should have finished his turn or, if he had contact with the opponent before that point, saved the game and then loaded the save and continued. But these are just our thoughts; the Arbitration Committee will make the final decision.

In practice, I can say that even when there is no message indicating a disconnection and the player has left the game, the following may occur. I had a situation like this (at least twice) where I didn't receive any message that the player had left the game, and neither did the player. Everything seemed normal. I attacked the opponent's army, defeated it, and then the opponent told me that I had attacked him, but didn't kill him, and instead allowed him to buy his way out. The disconnection occurred after the battle, although neither I nor the opponent received any message about a disconnection before or during the battle. I had no reason to doubt my opponent, as he claimed that he saw one thing, and I saw something else. But this is just an aside, and the AK will review the situation regarding this "suspicious" game and make a decision.

Here it is. Here’s a classic example of why Hermit is wrong 100 times over!!! If every such situation is dragged into the Arbitration Committee (AK), it would drive anyone crazy... In such a tournament, the organizer, and no one else, should address these nuances! When a person plays their first (or one of the first) tournament online game and immediately has a bunch of suspicions about the opponent cheating, then this is not for the AK, but for a therapist! Vitya did a great job, he explained everything very clearly – RESPECT! That’s all from me.

P.S.: I haven’t read the logs and won’t, as a matter of principle!

The defendant's statement (sorry for the length):

Castiel - Chester - Andrey - 363418981 - this is all me.
I played under the blue flag, Rampart with Kyrre, opponent - Stronghold with Crag Hack. On the second week I picked up a secondary Castle, soon an external dwelling of angels, then another one :rolleyes: Here's more detail to understand the situation:
I run past a Dragon Utopia, not deciding yet (had no meat and low-tier units), camp at the angels and see the opponent taking a Hive right from under my nose. I attack, the opponent surrenders without much thought (5 angels, 29 Wyverns and 4 unicorns vs 1 angel, a dozen birds, fresh 8 Wyverns, 3 behemoths and orcs). I destroy his scout heroes, take a secondary Swamp camp, camp (146). I go back to the Dragon Utopia, take an external dwelling of cavalry, a bank, a Pandora's box, a library, see a prison behind hydras, don't decide yet, ride a bit further. Meanwhile, a scout hero to the south reveals the red Stronghold (213). I decide to fight the hydras, Bron is in the prison, I intend to transfer the basilisk units and take the Dragon Utopia, but suddenly the computer freezes.

Lyrical digression:
My machine (called a "tazik" in ICQ) is old (soon its anniversary - 10 years), the video card (64 mb) handles some large-scale graphical actions very painfully (minimizing-maximizing heroes, for example), and since the opponent moved for quite a long time (by my standards), I had to go into ICQ or browser out of boredom. After a dozen such minimizations and maximizations, it usually either freezes, or the picture disappears and we stare at a black monitor.

That evening I rebooted 4 times, the last one - when I released Bron on turn 214, Kyrre only killed the prison guards and essentially hadn't moved yet, and the computer does this. I turn it on, see a phrase in ICQ like "I attacked Kyrre, is that okay?" I allow it, because I feel guilty about having to reload and the wasted time. Kyrre got defeated, Crag Hack rejoices, loads the autosave. Naturally I'm not going to repeat the bot's moves and I head for the Dragon Utopia, as intended. While I'm beating the guards, I see displeasure in ICQ. At first I don't understand what they want from me, then I see: he seriously thought that he defeated me, and wants a replay (maybe he didn't see the message "Chester has left the game" because he was in another window, I don't know).

Now logical thoughts:
- Why would I go with just angels to the enemy's Castle, which has at least a weekly growth + a purchased army? On the left tile there's a scout hero with a stack, and more angels from dwellings are on the way, while Kyrre's angels are only there to speed things up.
- There's Town Portal (in the capital there are dendroids and pegasi that haven't been recruited since the start of the game + in the secondary there are 5 angels, and weekly growth of 1-6).
- There's a Dragon Utopia straight ahead, only a bot would skip it.
- Earlier in ICQ I wrote without any ulterior motives that I would attack on turn 222, I keep my word and I liked the number, according to the plan I'll jump with portal between towns, collect the growth and head south from the Swamp, I won't reach in one day, hence 2.

In the end what would have resulted (taking the skills I have, and growth on turn 221):
Kyrre 15 26 7 11
18 angels, 25 cavaliers, 44 crusaders, 16 unicorns, 60 pegasi, 41 treants, 29 Wyverns.
Crag Hack 11 7 7 4
1 angel, 4 behemoths, 28 birds, 26 ogres, 50 orcs, 60 wolves, 100 goblins, 20 Wyverns.
What defeat are we talking about..?

Well, I can only draw one conclusion: the opponent, looking at his poor situation, takes the opportunity (I got disconnected) and claims a technical victory, while also accusing me of seven deadly sins. I would understand if he was just tired of reloading (that's entirely my fault and I was even ready to compensate him financially - see ICQ) and didn't want to continue the game. In that case, I agree, a technical loss.
But that didn't happen and we kindly reloaded. And all this slander about "he realized he was caught" (caught by whom? there was nowhere to lose), "when I'm winning, they crash" (lolwhat, with one angel?), "deceived me in a nasty way", "playing dumb", "cheater" - coming from the opponent sounds insulting to me.

I'm attaching the saves:
Turn 213 in the middle of the move before attacking the Pandora's box-library, and the autosave after it.
I didn't manage to save on 214, since I barely moved, and accordingly there's no autosave.
And a screenshot of the autosave for the lazy.

p.s. Regarding my last message in ICQ (that my last full move was on 123) of course I made a typo (state of mild shock and unjustified attack), I meant 213, what does the second week of the first month have to do with it at all...

p.p.s. I was ready to make concessions and load his autosave from turn 215 (I played under the blue flag and the turn would not have started yet), even if on 214 the computer had moved for me.

Thank you for your attention :)

What's there to analyze? There was a disconnect, and that's it. Who hasn't experienced that? Just reload the autosave and move on!

Here he is. Here's a classic example of why Hermit is wrong 100 times!!! If every such situation is discussed in the Arbitration Committee, it would drive you crazy... In such a tournament, the organizer should address these nuances, and no one else! When a person plays their first (or one of the first) tournament online game and immediately has a lot of suspicions about the opponent cheating, this is not a matter for the Arbitration Committee, but for a therapist! Vitya did a great job, he explained everything very clearly – RESPECT! That's all from me!

P.S.: I haven't read the logs and won't, on principle!

Dirty Player, I think this wasn't even from a novice tournament, but a ranked game. Who is the organizer, and who should sort it out? And even if it were from a novice tournament or some other tournament, bijho did the right thing by contacting the Arbitration Committee. I don't analyze controversial situations, but I don't think there's much to analyze here. Everything is clear anyway, the opponents are ready to provide information and are not going to drag it out... Even I, based on a small part of the logs that is relevant, was able to immediately understand what happened, let alone the Arbitration Committee.

bijho, I'm contacting you.

Please send your save files to this email address; you don't have to send all of them, just the ones starting from 213:
poll_80@mail.ru

If needed, my ICQ number is: 482071082

Thank you!

That evening, I had to restart the game 4 times, the last time being after I released Bron on turn 214. Kirei only killed the dungeon guards and essentially hadn't moved yet, and that's what caused the crash. I log back in and see a message in chat like, "I attacked Kirei, is that okay?" I give him permission because I feel guilty that I'll have to restart and waste time. Kirei loses, Kragg is happy, and the game auto-loads. Naturally, I'm not going to repeat the same moves and head to the utopia, as I intended.

And a question for Castiel. You wrote "auto-loads."
Please tell me, when the game auto-loaded, what turn was it?

I'm writing here because I couldn't get in touch through the ICQ messages.

It was comrade bijho's turn, but he immediately passed it to me, and I started 214 from the beginning (Kirya is alive, heading towards the Dungeon-Dragon Utopia, and the opponent wants me to ride down to him with only angels, just as the AI did for me on 214).

I request a judgment for the game with chester (Andrey asya363418981).

The decision for this game (bijho-Castiel) is as follows.
Castiel did not violate any rules of the game.

Justification.

On turn 146, Castiel attacks bijho, and bijho retreats. During the attack, Castiel could have assessed bijho's army and the presence of Tactics, which Castiel himself did not have.

Further, on turn 215, Castiel (according to bijho's save) attacks bijho with 7 Angels (although bijho had the rest of his army and a considerable force), while bijho has 1 Angel. After Castiel forces bijho with 1 Angel to retreat using Tactics, Castiel has enough mana left to teleport anywhere. However, Castiel, for some reason, visits the Obelisk instead and becomes within reach of bijho. On turn 216, Kirr (Castiel) is killed by Krag (bijho), although Castiel could have paid to avoid the fight or retreated.

Therefore, the conclusion is: it is obvious that turns 214 and 215 were not made by a human (Castiel), but by the AI.

As the judge of the Seasonal Rating, I believe it is not advisable to consider this situation for an appeal.
If anyone wants to view the saves, please contact me: 482-071-082

And also.
I am addressing Castiel.
If you wish, this match will be recorded as your win by awarding you the victory (Army, Parameters, Teleport, etc.).
Please respond here regarding this.

I am addressing bijho.
In the future, please refrain from making rash decisions.

Thank you for the prompt decision and the attention you gave to the matter. I have no complaints about my opponent, and there is absolutely no need to force a win (something about a cow was mentioned, I think). I apologize again for the time spent and the numerous autosaves.

Today, I played a match against Logistic as part of the selection for FB 7. Around turn 117, my opponent said that a message appeared stating that his hero had already been released and he didn't receive the hero. He then left the game. I request that the admins investigate. I am ready to provide the save files.
P.S. We were playing in SOD (Shades of Darkness).

Today, I played a match in the qualifiers for FB 7, round 7, against Logistic. Around turn 117, my opponent said that a message appeared stating that the hero had already been released and he didn't receive the hero. He then left the game. I request that the admins investigate. I am ready to provide the save files.
P.S. We were playing in SOD.

There's nothing to investigate here – either Logistic loses, or the game is finished if Alessandro agrees, and no one has tampered with the save files. An empty dungeon means that there was a level 1 hero there, chosen by one of the players (if it was higher than level 1, I think they would have noticed by turn 117).

Today, I played a match in the FB 7 tournament qualifier against Logistic. Around turn 117, my opponent said that a message appeared stating that the hero had already been released and he didn't receive the hero. He then left the game. I request that the admins investigate. I am ready to provide the save files.
P.S. We were playing in SOD.

If the map wasn't viewed - I would suggest continuing the game/at least not involving the admins anymore))/

This is a bug with an empty dungeon, where the planned hero is already on the map/or in the tavern/

P.S. I wrote the message when there wasn't a post from VLK, and the difference is 17 minutes - that's a coincidence/it wasn't 17 minutes after I wrote the message))/

Today, I played a match in the qualifiers for FB 7, against Logistic. Around turn 117, my opponent said that a message appeared stating that his hero had already been released and he didn't receive the hero. He then left the game. I request that the admins investigate. I am ready to provide the save files.
P.S. We were playing in SOD.

Logistic acted incorrectly; it seems he hadn't encountered this before....
And leaving the game is not a solution...