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Posts from Is an AK (assault rifle) necessary or not in principle? (poll)

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To be or not to be… AK
58 voters
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AK – it’s necessary.
86.2% 50 votes
AK – no need for it.
13.8% 8 votes
In reply to Erdem
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#61
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Erdem
Example 4.
4.1. During a lunch break, citizen X entered the office of the Administration of city N. Fortunately for him, the employees of the Administration had left the room unattended. :confused:

4.2. Citizen X printed a letter on official letterhead with the seal of the Administration of city N, and on behalf of the Administration, he sent a rude message to V.V. Putin. :smile38:

4.3. V.V. Putin receives this letter. :smile29:

Now, a simple and clear question: who is to blame, and what will happen to the Head of the city after this? :confused: Please answer without hesitation! :)

It's very simple. I understand that after Putin received the letter, and after the Head of the city was reprimanded, citizen X confessed to his "joke" - i.e., a parallel to our situation.

Answer.
1. Citizen X will be punished for forging documents or hooliganism, or, depending on the details, for another offense.
2. Depending on the damage caused, the city hall security will be held accountable, either for criminal negligence in the form of carelessness, etc., or face disciplinary action up to and including dismissal and compensation for damages.
3. As for what will happen to the Head of the city (who, even knowing that the signature on the document is definitely not his ;) and also, a certain citizen X was found who confessed to everything wholeheartedly :D), if he decides to show off in front of Mr. V.V. and send him away with a demand to explain everything clearly and unambiguously (because he is not guilty!!! that's the main thing!!!) - guess for yourself :D I think the city is close to holding new elections ;)

Added 53 minutes ago
Catch


I cited above an example of how, two years ago, in a similar situation, but in an offline tournament, it was documented with the help of a video recording that a player violated the rules by changing the game mechanics. Then everyone believed him on his word that he did not do it intentionally. They simply annulled his save, but did not ban him as a cheater. Now, the same person, in a similar situation (in my opinion, the depth of the act and the consequences are clearly less than in the previous one), does not believe another person on his word and votes for awarding him the "Champion of Cheating" title. Neo, agree that some consistency in decisions should be observed. Even if there is no precedent here. Otherwise, we believe one person on his word, but not the other. Or is it all because one is a representative of the administration, and the other is a visiting guest from another resource?

Consistency should definitely be maintained. I don't know about the previous situation, its specifics, or who exactly we are talking about, so it is difficult to assess anything.

When I started my professional career and said to a judge: "Wait! How so? You considered a similar case and made a different decision!" I was told: "Each case is individual." ;) It may seem the same from the outside, but dig deeper - each has its own nuances that are important for the case.

In general, in the first case, I understand that one of the members of the Arbitration Committee made the decision, and at that time the Arbitration Committee did not even exist. Now, the decision of the Arbitration Committee as a whole is being challenged, so investigating the motives of inconsistency of one of its members is not entirely appropriate to this topic.

P.S. Tell me: has anyone ever been satisfied with their own punishment in life? For example, a traffic cop stopped you, drew up a report for exceeding the speed limit by 5 km/h, and you (with all the passengers in the car), bowing, said: "Thank you, comrade! Excellent work!" :D
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#62
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Neoandy

Well, generally speaking, as far as the first instance is concerned, I understand that one of the Arbitration Committee members made a decision, but the Arbitration Committee didn't even exist back then. Now, the Arbitration Committee's decision is being disregarded as a whole, so investigating the motives of one of its members for this inconsistency is not entirely relevant to the topic.

One of the Arbitration Committee members acted against another member of the Arbitration Committee, but the Arbitration Committee didn't exist yet. ;)
P.S. Tell me, has anyone ever been satisfied with their own punishment in life? For example, a traffic cop stopped you, wrote a ticket for exceeding the speed limit by 5 km/h, and you bowed and said, "Thank you, comrade! Excellent work!" :D

Once, a traffic cop stopped me when I was exceeding the speed limit by 19 km/h on the highway. They were repairing the road, the speed limit was 40 km/h, and I was driving at 59 km/h. He told me I had violated the rules, and I replied, "Well, I violated them, what can I do now? I admit my guilt," and he could see it on my face. And he said, "Don't do it again," and let me go.
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#63
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Catch

Once, a traffic cop stopped me when I exceeded the speed limit by 19 km on a highway. They were repairing the road, the limit was 40 km, and I was driving at 59 km. He told me I had violated the rules, and I replied, "Well, I did, what can I do now? I admit my guilt," with a sheepish look on my face. And he just said, "Don't do it again," and let me go.

Do you see the difference with our situation?
I'm more than sure that if Alex and Cobra had immediately said something like, "Sorry for the commotion, guys, it happened. We're guilty, but I (Alex) didn't watch the game, and Cobra will explain everything in detail to ease the tension in the community."

And do you think that after that, anyone would start fantasizing or launching a witch hunt? You know perfectly well that they wouldn't. I'm even sure there wouldn't have been any technical issues.
It's not for nothing that in criminal law, cooperation in solving a crime is the number one mitigating circumstance, and admitting guilt and repenting for the deed is the number two mitigating circumstance. And in the opposite case, it becomes an aggravating circumstance. So, everything turned out to be very close to a real court proceeding.
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#64
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Neo, I'll quote Alex's post:
AliaSmehova

Thanks to my opponent, he reacted normally to the situation that occurred, including due to my fault. He didn't start throwing baseless accusations and even suggested finishing the game!
The person thought the incident was resolved back then. How should he behave when the topic resurfaces after two months? I don't know how I would react if that traffic cop stopped me after two months and said, "Remember when I let you go? I've decided it was a mistake, so pay the fine!"
By the way, I met that traffic cop by chance about a month and a half later. There was an accident on the highway, and the participants asked me to find the cop so he could come to the scene. I found him, and it turned out he was the one, but he didn't ask me for any money.
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Wicc
Numerous examples from various sports are cited to support this, and each time the conclusion is the same: the penalty should only affect the team in which the disciplinary violation occurred. Why should it be different in this case?
Disqualification for doping, diagnosed in one match, ranges from one season to a lifetime ban.
Disqualification for a red card received in a specific game ranges from 1 to 5 games.
Besides, everyone already knows that the fact of cheating occurred.
AK made a balanced and wise decision. That's why she enjoys well-deserved respect among most users of OUR website.

Орден Фениксахаризматический :) лидер
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#66
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Qwerty
Disqualification for doping, diagnosed in one match, ranges from one season to a lifetime ban.
If they had found doping, there would be no questions. But no doping was found, which is confirmed by the protocols.
Besides, everyone already knows that cheating took place.
We are well aware of the inadequacy of your judgments, dating back to the time of Vitalik's case. Back then, you also claimed that there was no cheating, even though a poll of player opinions showed the exact opposite.

Here, the situation is different, but now you are somehow absolutely certain not only that cheating occurred, but also that everyone agrees with this. You shouldn't make such statements...
The AC made a balanced and wise decision. It is no wonder that it enjoys well-deserved respect among most users of OUR site.
Blah-blah-blah...
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#67
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It's not good to encourage trolls, of course, but I just saw a recording by Mikogo. I saw Archangels. And I looked at saves before that. And the Archangels appeared in the hero's army as a result of using cheat codes, which means cheating.

Орден Фениксахаризматический :) лидер
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#68
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Catch

The person probably thought the incident was resolved back then. But when the topic resurfaces two months later, how should he react?

So, when we were discussing Vitalik's cheating, I also confirmed the report in my party, and other players who had played with him before also confirmed it. Does that mean Vitalik was right to tell us to go away, just because we confirmed the reports? :rolleyes:

The idea of a confirmed report as a fact that completely resolves the incident has been brought up many times in discussions about Alex. I thought that reasonable people like you would understand that this is not an argument, but rather a consequence of the procedure. After all, I hope everyone understands that at the time the report was confirmed, Player #2 did not have access to the evidence that was "published" by the AC two months later, and he did not have the authority to conduct an in-depth investigation. He acted appropriately – he confirmed the report, and those who were supposed to investigate the matter did so.

I'll also answer you about the traffic cop. Imagine that your violation was recorded by automated systems like "Vizir" and others. As in Europe, you will receive your report and photos from the scene by mail after some time, and usually with the deadline for appeal already passed :D. And what? ;)

Ps: I'm starting to doubt your objectivity. So, you understand and even justify Alex's dissatisfaction, but dissatisfaction with the AC for not wanting to explain things promptly and clearly is a crime?

Zy: Imagine a situation where you (God forbid, in real life) are a defendant in a case involving the recovery of material and moral damages in some civil lawsuit. You are summoned to court, and you say – Ha-ha, go away... I owe nothing to anyone. Those who know me will never believe the fabricated claims of the plaintiff, etc. And you answer all the judge's questions in the same spirit – it's up to you to figure it out, I have nothing to do with it. What do you think, whose favor will the decision be in? :)

Zy-Zy-Zy: I forgot a killer argument for those who rely on analogies with football penalties (stadium disqualification, not team disqualification, etc.). I think everyone has seen at least once how a player (even one who is not directly involved in the violation for which the whistle was blown) is sent off the field for "talking" / disrespecting the referee? :smile29: Isn't that an outrage? :smile01:
In reply to Neoandy
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#69
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Neoandy

Let me address your point about the traffic cop. Imagine your violation was recorded by automated systems like "Vizir" and similar ones. Just like in Europe, you would receive a report and photos from the scene by mail after some time, and usually with missed deadlines for appealing :D. So what? ;)

Don't you understand? I was ALREADY let go for that violation. If everything had happened as you described, I would have simply paid the fine, just as I was ready to do then.
Ps: I'm starting to doubt your objectivity. So, you understand and even justify Alex's dissatisfaction, but dissatisfaction with the AK regarding their unwillingness to explain things promptly and clearly is a crime?

Neo, you're a lawyer. Point me to the clause that regulates the player's obligation to provide explanations? There is only this:
In cases of defending against accusations of unfair play, the defending party provides, if possible, any evidence of their fair play. At the same time, information is requested from the accusing party.
The AK Rules do not state that the defending player is OBLIGED to provide evidence of their innocence. And even more so, there is nothing written there about the obligation to give testimony to a hundred members of the AK. The example with the court is in the same category. In any country, I believe, there is responsibility for disrespecting the court. Nothing similar is written about the AK.
And in general. Before this incident, all disputes were resolved based on common sense. Here, the AK simply rejected this common sense. You will see what this will lead to. I'm just afraid that it will be too late. And many of those who are now, guided by herd instinct, vehemently defending the AK, will curse the moment when they supported this AK decision and the AK itself.
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#70
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Catch
... And many of those who now, guided by herd instinct, vehemently defend AK, will curse the moment when they supported this AK decision and AK itself.

As for the foam at the mouth – I haven't seen anyone with more foam than you. And I would still understand if you were an actively involved participant in the conflicts. But as it is, it seems like you just flew by, saw a pile of crap, and decided to dive in headfirst, to wallow and spin around in it. Truth or not, who cares, the process is what matters! It seems like you enjoy it, and the outcome is not important. And your foam is really just for show and for the process, rather than for the sake of the matter, because in some places it already contradicts common sense. "Let me find some other trick, why has everyone gone quiet, let's keep rubbing and discussing:smile08:, I'll throw in some nonsense to stir things up!"

P.S. I'm looking at your avatar, and with each post, it increasingly reflects your real image:rolleyes:
Хаос - это порядок, которым сложнее управлять.

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#71
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Piterius
it seems like you just flew by, saw a pile of crap, and decided to dive in headfirst, wallow around, and have a good time.
:D :D :D :D :D good allegory for everything that's happening.
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Catch
Back then, everyone believed him when he said he didn't do it on purpose. They simply invalidated his save, but they didn't ban him as a cheater. Now, this same person, in a similar situation (in my opinion, the act and its consequences are clearly less severe than the previous one), doesn't believe another person and votes in favor of awarding him the "Champion of Moral Courage" award.
No, I don't think so. This person didn't vote for the "Champion of Moral Courage" award; there's no need to make things up.
Wicc
But how else can we describe a decision that led to such consequences? There are now many people who are justifiably dissatisfied, people are leaving the forum, and an opposition to the Arbitration Committee is emerging, etc. None of this existed before.
The problem isn't with the Arbitration Committee's decision, but with some kind of conspiracy, someone who was offended by something. This behavior is despicable! If someone wants to leave, let them leave, and stop messing with everyone's heads.
Piterius
P.S. I'm looking at your avatar, and with each post, it increasingly reflects your real image:rolleyes:
Hands off the saint!!! :smile10:
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#73
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Dirty_Player
No, let me correct you. This person didn't vote against "Might and Magic: Heroes", so let's not spread misinformation.
Oh, yes, my apologies... My memory failed me. For some reason, it seemed that besides the two who voted against it both times, only you voted against "Might and Magic: Heroes".

2 Piterius
Well done, that's exactly how it is :D. But who made that mess? ;)

And seriously, I'm just very amused, I haven't laughed this much in a long time, watching people get into a muddy puddle but trying to convince everyone that they are still clean and fluffy, and the more they struggle, the more awkward it looks :)

By the way, Neo, Piterius, did you discuss this topic in Dnipro?
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In reply to Catch
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#74
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Catch
I am sure that V.V. Putin is a very reasonable person, and he will immediately understand that the head of the city will not send such letters to him. He will get a reprimand for negligence, but no one will send him to Kolyma, and he will not be removed from his position, unless he had any previous offenses.

Did he get a reprimand for negligence? Was he not sent to Kolyma (read: was not punished)?

So, what exactly is the problem (dissatisfaction)? :smile32:

Please explain in more detail what is the inadequacy of the AK's decision, and what, in your opinion, does "He will get a reprimand for negligence" mean. But please, do not stray from the topic, I hope we can avoid lengthy discussions about traffic police officers for 3 pages. Believe me, it is very difficult to find the truth and meaning in your messages, especially when they are spread over 7-8 pages or more... Thank you in advance for your answers! ;)

P.S. Judging by the poll, everything is already clear, more than 85% are in favor of AK, so we can probably close the topic? :)
Человек человеку - друг!
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#75
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Erdem

Please explain in more detail what is inappropriate about the AK's decision, and what do you think "He will be punished for negligence" means. But please, don't stray from the topic, I hope we can avoid lengthy discussions about traffic police spanning 3 pages)). Believe me, it is very difficult to find the truth and meaning in your messages, especially when they are spread over 7-8 pages or more... Thank you in advance for your answers! ;)

That's why I have to spread it over 7-8 pages, because when I write briefly, people don't understand ;)
If CMCH = Kolyma, then "tehpor" = punished for negligence, removal from the tournament = removal from the position. Is that clear? ;)
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