Posts from "Might vs. Magic"

Dirty_Player (Conflux, Luna, Luna) draw Wlk777 (Dungeon, Shakti, Shakti) 2sm4d(3) 144

Saves

We started with a couple of restarts and then went. The start was good, though the Air Elementals weren't built... On the respawn there are 2 external dwellings of Air Elementals, an external dwelling of Earth Elementals and Psychic Elementals, a minimal Griffin Conservatory and a Dragon Utopia. All first week, 8 heroes work intensely in chains, there's no time to even take the Griffin Conservatory. On 117 I finally deploy the birds, everything went by the millimeter.

For blue, it's much simpler. An external dwelling of Minotaurs, a minimal Griffin Conservatory, and a small respawn. The Griffin Conservatory was taken on 111, which allowed Shakti to fly immediately on the speed boost. A swamp secondary hero was taken. The second secondary hero went underwater, like Atlantis leaving only the sea, maybe even the Laptev Sea :D 4 heroes, but the Minotaurs with the external dwelling and the portal stopped, Shakti got Earth magic.

The second week goes at a slow pace because my secondary hero is also swampy. I lose a ton of Air Elementals on Cyclopes. There are stupid maneuvers with the main hero through the swamp, chains are working, secondary heroes take Dwarf dwellings, the Griffin Conservatory, but the main hero isn't leveling up. By the end of the week I decide to go to the treasure zone.

Blue picks up the pace in the second week, takes a Pandora's Box and the arena. Shakti already has Mass Slow. By the end of the week, entering the treasure zone. 19 upgraded Minotaurs crush everything. On 127, capture of an external dwelling of Angels, which will appear in the portal on 131...

The third week is spent clearing the treasure zone, I consume Pandora's Boxes giving money, money, and experience. The secondary hero takes a Pandora giving 25 Horned Demons. 2 Hives were found, but minimal... Luna defeats the infernal sword and attacks the Fanatics without mana, not checking the quantity. There were 104 of them. :eek: They gave a good beating... next 50 Liches, but the reward was a Pandora with all level 5 magic, and the next Pandora gave 20 Pit Fiends :smile12: I never touched the Dragon Utopia (1-2), as the battle parameters didn't allow it...

Shakti visits the Library, defeats the Crown of the Dragon from the cats. Breaks through the Dragon Utopia in the middle of the third week. Gives the Statesman's Hat and the Titan's Cuirass, as if custom-made... also even schooled Resurrection from Alamar, the bastard :)

Then the action started. On 136 Shakti breaks the ГО (20-49 Arch Devils) and takes the Conflux. Luna on 137 takes the Dungeon using Dimension Door. On 141, they bought my birds, and I bought Minotaurs and Psychic Elementals from the portal. The Mana Vortex helped me. I take the Dragon Utopia using Implosion. Shakti breaks the ГО (10-19 Gold Dragons) and takes back his capital. Taking a look in the Tavern, I realize Shakti took off the Titan's Cuirass and hat to replenish mana. Taking advantage of this, I cast Dimension Door to him and attack. I have a bit more meat and have Implosion at 997. Luna has 7 Psychic Elementals, 3 birds, 2 Angels, 18 Pit Fiends and misc. Shakti has 3 Angels, 4 birds, 24 Minotaurs, and 18 Fire Elementals - only 4 stacks. I think it's a win, but no. There's Resurrection working, restoring everything killed by Implosion. Less mana, I realize this fight isn't in my favor. I wipe out the birds and Minotaurs with Implosion and surrender with 1 Angel, Pit Fiends, and Psychic Elementals, leaving Shakti with 3 Angels and Fire Elementals... There won't be a second such freebie. Luna plans to take the Dragon Utopia and recapture her own town. We decided to postpone... After the postponement, Valentin offers a draw. The draw was accepted after deliberation, because further on it would be a lottery fight with Implosions/Chains. As luck would have it, upon revealing the Dragon Utopia I was heading to, it gave the Tome of Earth, Lion's Shield, and Air Boost Artifact. After that there were real chances of victory thanks to Chain Lightning at 1000 and Town Portal with Advanced Earth, though after the Dragon Utopia only 7 Psychic Elementals, 18 Pit Fiends and the Angel would survive. If the game were elimination, I'd definitely play for the win, but in a Swiss format you can take a draw without risk. Thanks for the game. It was very interesting. A draw is a fair outcome, I think.

Added 16 hours 13 minutes later
By the way, the match confirmed the truth that it's much easier to turn a warrior into a mage, than a mage into a warrior!!!
Furthermore, I consider the decisive mistake to be refusing Pathfinding at level 3, which could have decided the fate of the match! I used Wall of Fire once in a non-decisive battle, since everything was being taken down anyway. :mad: The game left me with quite a lot of questions for myself....

I'm trying to post this for the third time today... The first round ended with a score of 5:4; loi and Javdet will play later; for now, they both have 0.5 points for the standings. Thanks to everyone for your responsible approach. Standings

second round
Sword	***	Magic	***
bRitvo4kA	1	KobRa_RR	1
numOne	1	SpiriTT	1
Эрдэм	1	КостяN	1
Aldegir	1	Javdet	0,5*
Wlk777	0,5	Van	0,5
~no1_knows_me~	0,5	Dirty_Player	0,5
loi	0,5*	Mizrael	0
Kash	0	Gomunguls	0
SEM_56	0	scorp	0
Avern	0	Hermit	0

The second round will be played until October 29, inclusive. I hope you will play on time again. The standings for all rounds will be in the first post. Good luck and have a great game, everyone!

Dedicated to the memory of mages who fell in battle.
/topic/at/294465/ :smile25:

Added after 25 minutes
Kostya, I looked at your saves. I don't know if you were determined to play for a win, but the game raised many questions.

The map was certainly difficult to generate, but during the first week:
-why take Archers on level-up when, without them, they would give Intelligence, which is much more important? Even if there wasn't any Intelligence, there's still a chance for Earth Elementals and Town Portal.
-why, having a Dimension Door scroll, build Birds (I didn't understand this at all), even changing resources, when instead you could have built Psychics in the Citadel, reached Mage Guild 5, and taken Utopias on day 131, giving Resurrection and Fire Elemental summoning – what else does a mage need? Even Cyclops on respawn hinted at that.
-you could have taken the single unit on day 116 at the latest, with 4 Psychics, 8 Earth Dwellings, etc. And in principle, probably even earlier with the Magic Arrow spell.
-ideally, it would be best to start with a Stable on day 121 (although I don't know how it is financially, I haven't checked), then kill the Wood faction with Moon spells, break into Utopias with artifacts in the Swamp Castle.
-you weren't lucky with Warriors, but you could have tried to level up the only Fighter by a couple of levels, at least in the tower. They immediately gave Earth magic.

With such artifacts (+6 to all stats, +5 to all stats, shield +12, cloak, boots, wings, expert amulet), beating Shakti without logistics and with this gear isn't particularly difficult.

no comment...
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the opponent had their native secondary nearby two days away (and on slow roads at that), an external dwelling of Troglodytes, an Eye, and Medusas. Also nearby was an exit to snow, where a lot of free stuff was lying around. If you can't win with that as a Warrior, then with what? With three Griffin Conservatories at the Castle or something?

Van (Tower, Solmyr, Solmyr) def Wlk777 (Castle, Valeska, Valeska) 2sm4d(3) 117
Took all the respawns, when the chocolate came the opponent took the respawn, once Aislin, Ciele and 6 heroes came from the start, the last drop was Solmyr and Luna, the respawn is big but split by a mountain into 2 halves, blockers for secondary skills are shooting and double – narrow passages, clearing the respawn I collect everything I can, wiped the gnome dwelling on 15 with Luna on 111 without losses, the imp dwelling and the crypt, no well ((((, I replenish at the castle, on 117 I make a chain, Solmyr is supposed to break one secondary on 121, Luna the second, in the castle 12346 in the citadel, I see 2 conjurings, the opponent surrenders and auto does not take :smile13: .
Thank you for the game.

Valentine confirmed the games in ICQ:

Dirty_Player

Dirty_Player (Conflux, Luna, Luna) draw Wlk777 (Dungeon, Shakti, Shakti) 2sm4d(3) 144The opponent describes everything in a positive light, but only a miracle in the form of a 5th-level Pandora saved him. I think I would have done well with a fairly earned Resurrection and Chain Lightning, as well as Boots of Speed, even without control, in case the opponent didn't have it. On the third map, I easily broke through and my development was going well, although I didn't have any free Angels or Ducks (except for one). Not everyone at level 135 can boast about control, a 1500 explosion with 200 mana (even without a doubling spell), Resurrection; the opponent on the third map would have taken it with great difficulty, without that damned Pandora, he had no chance at all, I assure you. Thank you for the game.

VanVan (Tower, Solomyr, Solomyr) def Wlk777 (Castle, Valeska, Valeska) 2sm4d(3) 117

When there were no rests, it gave me such a bad start that I didn't want to play. A tiny, poor resource base, 22 marks, no stashes or stables, ranged units that would leave me without an army after being defeated. I somehow managed to get to the secondary Inferno on the off-road, and at 117, the horses were placed in the citadel, but these torments were ended by a rather demoralizing 14 gold of Buratins. I refused the auto-offer from the opponent with a clear conscience. Thank you for the game

the map was tough of course, generated that way, but based on the first week
-why take Archery on the level-up, without it, they would have given Intelligence, which is much more important. Even if there was no Intelligence, there's still a chance for Earth, Logistics, and Town Portal.

I believe taking Archery was necessary, because with two nests of Air Elementals you could create a striking stack of Storms. The mistake was not taking Pathfinding.... that I admit. But a mage will always be given Intelligence. Just look at the screenshot from your report, where Luna was given Literacy and Scouting. Why? Because they don't give combat skills, and not all magic skills are useful.

-why, having a Dimension Door scroll, build birds (I didn't understand that at all) and also with a resource change, when instead you could have built Psychos in the Citadel, on a second Mage Guild-5, and take Utopias on week 1 day 3 1, which would give Resurrection and Summon Fire Elementals, what more does a mage need? Even the Cyclops Hut on the respawn hinted at that.

There were two Cyclops Huts! I was thinking about building a Mage Guild in Rampart. But Conflux without birds, IMHO, looks somehow lacking. What could be better than 4 birds on week 2? Only 5 birds :)

-the one guard could have been taken on day 1 1 6 at the latest, with 4 Psychos, 8 Earth Elementals, etc. And in principle, with Magic Arrow, probably even earlier.

Could have, but I messed up somewhere and didn't keep up with the tempo... The troops just couldn't get there :( I agree that I could have played differently...

-ideally, on week 1 day 2 1 (though I don't know about the gold, I didn't check), it would have been to start with the Stable, then Luna kills the wood, break with the artifact at the Utopia into the Swamp Castle

For gold, I could have destroyed the Dwarf Cottage and the treasure chests; without birds there would have been plenty of gold, but with birds it was tight...

-unlucky with the warriors, but the single fighter could have been leveled up a couple of levels, at least in the column. Earth would have been given immediately.

I could have leveled Septienna (I'm almost sure now that's what should have been done) because Luna seems useless where everything gets destroyed anyway...

without that damned Pandora's Box, he didn't have the slightest chance, I swear.

I agree with every word written.

No, a mage doesn't need combat skills. But intelligence is necessary, and I only got it in the last slot by chance.
Building birds on such a map is a pointless waste of about 3 days. You can speed up development with dragonflies, and you could have broken through with 11 psychics, either as a fighter or with Jelar and the experience bonus. Damage of 360+ with storms and 150 with psychics, without any retaliation or shooting.

You say,

Luna looks useless where everything is already being destroyed.

. In reality, this means that you didn't play her well (or rather, not at all). I hope you won't be offended.

You're writing that... In reality, it means you didn't play her well at all (or rather, not at all). I hope you don't take offense.

I won't be offended. I'm just curious how it would have been to play Luna better. What was her use on this map? Was it worth leveling her up? Maybe it would have been better to use Ajita or Septienna? Or maybe switch to Passissa at level 121?

The Moon artifact is always useful on any random map. Although its contribution to victory can vary in significance. It seems to me that you played with it as if you were playing as a Barbarian, so naturally, it didn't give you any advantages. When I have time, I'll try playing a single-player game (I'll try to mentally simulate an unknown map, warm up before the tournament). Pasis, in my opinion, is already a last resort, but Jelar would probably be a good choice for the second hero.
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By the way, in my game with Numone, given the game situation, I would have preferred scouting and offense, and armor (intelligence would have been even better, possibly tactics) at that level.

Although her contribution to the victory may vary in significance. It seems to me that you played as if you were playing as a Warrior, so naturally, it didn't give you any advantages.

Apparently, this is the truth. Perhaps it would have been worth playing with a fast Grand Master strategy, without leaving the grass. Although, I consider playing through Septienna to be the optimal strategy. Skeletons definitely wouldn't be superfluous...

Hermit(red, rampart, Coronius, Kyrre) def Avern(blue, dangeon, Shakhti, Shakhti) 2sm4d(3) 132

A strange game it turned out to be... We took all the restarts and it gave us two secondary heroes and a GO horde of Efreeti on slow roads. Kyrre is sitting in the tavern... I'm leveling her up. The leveling speed is insane — by day 114 she's already level 5, she herself is also somehow insane even on slow roads. I even hit some shooter guards and slowly sacrifice centaurs on them, and on day 117, when there were few centaurs left but there were 13 (what an unlucky number that is) elves, I attacked a stack of snakes with a gr stack, but they got morale and approached the elves. In the end I lost the battle, but Kyrre managed to retreat. But if not for the morale in the first round, the battle would have been almost without losses. And still the unicorns are in the Citadel and I have money for upgrades and recruitment. I bought five unicorns, didn't even take the elves, and used them to hit the second set of shooter guards with all my heroes. I captured the second secondary town and suddenly Shakhti emerged from the monolith. In his army he has 13 Minotaurs and an Eye, apparently from an external dwelling. I moved Kyrre with the unicorns so that I could reach him, but he captured my secondary town Necropolis and stood next to them. I transferred troops from the castle, attacked him — he had no mana, and I killed 8 of his Minotaurs. He fled. I took the Dwarf dwelling (20), moved to the capital to take the Hive, and he comes at me again with Minotaurs, single Eyes and a Harpy. I left the Hive alone, moved back to the secondary town and attacked him again. I transferred the growth, but forgot to buy Kyrre a spell book, even though I wanted to build her GM2, and she was already an Expert in Wisdom. My opponent hit my army with Chain Lightning, but my Pegasi didn't let him do it again. In two rounds I killed all the Minotaurs and the Harpy, and only one Eye remained, but Shakhti for some reason didn't retreat (IMHO a mistake) and was killed.     Thanks for the game.

Hermit(red, Rampart, Koronius, Kirr) def Avern(blue, Dungeon, Shacti, Shacti) 2sm4d(3) 132

Confirmed.
On day 112, I consumed a large stack of Maxigons. On day 113, I consumed 40 Ogres with a group stack and Pandora for 5000 experience. On day 114, I consumed a Mino's lair and, by the end of the first week, I had a level 10 Shacti with Logistics and Earth Expertise, and a secondary Necropolis. I built levels 1-5 in the Stronghold with a portal, and I could confidently look forward to the second week.
But again, I don't know what I was doing in the second week; I didn't do anything, I just wasted time and lost my army. I did find a scroll with a teapot and built a Guild of Mages level 4. In general, I have trouble with this middlegame; it would be helpful if someone could assist me.
Thank you for the game.

Mizrael (red, Tower, Solmir, Solmir) def Loi (Castle, Valeska, Galthran) 2sm4d(3) 134

We restarted for a long time, used everything we could :) Started, got a good spawn, an external dwelling of gremlins, shooters given in a hut, two money heroes. I messed up with the shooters, made a couple of moves away from the hut and didn't feel like going back, besides, I can always pick them up later, right now I'd rather find the air magic...
112 - finally grabbed air magic, revealed the Griffin Conservatory and the external genie dwelling.
113 - the guard of the external dwelling is manticores.. forget them, found another gremlin dwelling.
114 - refilled mana at the well, sent the gremlins from the external dwelling home via the chain, went myself towards the supposed secondary town: one road goes to the subway, the other two split to the top and center, it's more likely the secondary is at the top, so I went there.
115 - broke through the guard of the barbarian secondary town, there's a stable.
116 - external behemoth dwelling! The guard is just powerful - lots of pit fiends and clearly not small, there's also a helmet +3 there... but I want it so badly! I take the secondary with the weak hero, papa levels up, learned Intelligence and there's a mana spring nearby.
117 - filled the mana tanks to the brim, brought a bunch of goblins from the secondary (no backup after the breakthrough, just 90 naked gremlins) and taxed the pit fiends fully :). Used 3-4 lightning bolts on them, and used another one in the dwelling on the behemoths.
121 - refilled papa's mana through the roof again and rushed to the stables. On 122 I ran through the stat boosters, they were clustered, and on 123 I broke through home.
124 - killed the Griffin Conservatory for 2 angels with the loss of a small number of gremlins due to the morale of a gnawed stack of griffins. From the secondary, scouting reveals a passage to the blue player, might be a terrain bug, I decide to check.
125 - no bug, the passage is purely from the secondary, well that's even better - there are 2 more conservatories there. Broke through with papa into the barbarian town, there are birds for speed.
126 - another 2 angels, again minimal losses - the ground was no longer friendly and the gremlins suffered more.
127 - and another 2 angels, here I stupidly lost 1 naga - I struck with chain lightning from the far stack, but forgot the air magic is already advanced and the 5th jump hit them. Immediately broke through into the barbarian town, where I used the last bird to speed up papa.
131 - Solmir rushes to the stable, the weak heroes build the chain.
132 - filled the mana tanks to the brim again, Clavius with 5 angels and behemoths broke into the medusa dwelling - maxed out for buying, ready for the march.
133 - popped out onto the castle's respawn right near the castle, all the power in hand.
134 - I see Gosha holed up in the castle, by the parameters not particularly much, not much power either. Checked with the weak hero for Tactics, speed bonus, and mana amount: 90 mana, no bonus stats, and I attacked. The good old trick - blocked the gate with angels and got ready to slice everything up with chain lightning, but there's a Lightning Rod! Never mind, Ice Bolt works too, hit for 260 each. Considering Gosha only has 2 angels and a stack of wyverns as flyers, and Solmir has 400+ mana, the mage won this fight. Thanks for the game.