Posts from Should we ban the Griffin Conservatory and the Hive of Serpents?

The problem is relevant because angels and vivs from cans and hives are the primary strike stack in half of the games. There is also the issue of receiving useless sea artifacts in Dragon Utopias (random maps are played without water). I would like to hear some options for solving this...

P.S. It would be a good idea to adopt this point from the Poles: If the starting hero is a war machine specialist, and no machines were obtained at the start — then restart (hello Pyrrhus).

Maybe, but I haven't seen any serious arguments to change my opinion yet; they are all superficial and VERY questionable and debatable.

You should apologize, but you've somehow taken the position that WE need to convince you... :eek: Why not the other way around? :confused: You're introducing some kind of innovation, so YOU should be the one trying to convince us that this change is for the better! There are no arguments, other than that it's overpowered. At least provide some statistics, saying that you've played 100 (better yet, 1000) online games on 2sm4d(3) and in X% of the games, you had 10 angels on week 2, while Y% of the opponents had 20 wyverns, etc., and based on some statistics, you can draw conclusions. But you got killed a couple of times on the second week, and you're already proposing bans. As an alternative, generate 1000 SM maps and count the hives/caches on the spawns.

You should apologize, but you've somehow taken a position where WE have to convince you... :eek: Why not the other way around? :confused: You're introducing some kind of innovation, so YOU should be the one arguing and convincing us that this change is for the better! There are no arguments, except that it's overpowered. At least provide some statistics, saying that you played 100 (or better, 1000) online games on 2sm4d(3) and in X% of the games, you had 10 angels on week 2, while Y% of the opponent had 20 wyverns, etc., and based on some statistics, draw conclusions. But instead, you got killed a couple of times on the second week, and you're already proposing bans. As an alternative, generate 1000 sm maps and count the number of hives/caches on the respawn points.

I presented arguments, but I didn't see any reasonable counter-arguments. The argument that "I got killed on week 2, and that's why I got upset" is superficial and incorrect; the fierce opponents of canceling the subject even brought up the second week. I've also had games where, seeing the number of caches and hives I was given at the start, I knew that I would most likely win, and such victories don't interest me much. What can I do? I like intense battles, not just mindless stomping with free units.

I lost a lot of games because: my opponent got a consultant, and I didn't; they got a utopia, and I didn't; they got control, and I didn't. And in general, I lost because of the generator. Ban the generator!

Ban the generator!

Whether to ban or not, it wouldn't hurt to limit it a bit. Regarding the topic, I haven't really changed my opinion (I haven't seen any convincing arguments), but if not banning it outright, at least severely limit it. For example, I still believe that having a few "greed-earned" pixies is much less problematic than having a bunch of free angels/ducks in the 2nd or 3rd week. In the future, I will only respond to serious counterarguments (if any).

In my opinion, prohibiting, banning, or otherwise restricting elements of the game is a degradation of skill level. Let me explain. In this case, there is something that is currently a key factor in the developed strategy of modern gameplay in Heroes 3. Consequently, removing Conservatories and Hives from the game makes the skill of acquiring these structures obsolete. By prohibiting "cheese" Hives with the current rules, newcomers will no longer learn to do this, and it will become unnecessary for them. I, for one, took a long time to master this, but eventually achieved certain successes. What else...? In the topic starter's opinion, angels and wyverns obtained "for free" are an insurmountable obstacle that can only lead to frustration. But, as you all know, this is not the case. By raising the difficulty level, we must also raise the level of our skill, trying to respond adequately, unexpectedly, unconventionally, but powerfully and effectively. From the above, we can conclude that by prohibiting "free" angels and wyverns, no one will ever come up with a brilliant idea on how to counter them. We are not the dumbest people here, and I would most like to see topics in which it is said that due to some new feature, a certain rule becomes unnecessary, and therefore it can be omitted. As is currently happening in the discussion about unbanning specialists in specific map types. In my opinion, absolute mastery is the absence of the desire to impose a restriction. Therefore, my dear WIK777, there is no need to take the path of least resistance; it is much more difficult to come up with a way to circumvent something than to think about banning it.

In my opinion, banning... should be banned.

The thing is, the rules are full of restrictions on much less significant things, like pixel grade, but getting a can of food or clues is no longer a problem for many; the problem is that they don't get distributed, and in this regard, there are often obvious imbalances...

Yesterday, I played with Markon in the qualifying league on Heroesportal. I played as Humans, and my opponent played as Elves. In the third week, I went for the Treasure, got the Air Book, and an artifact with +3 to Morale and Luck. Then, my opponent caught up and attacked. He had 7 Angels, and I didn't have any conscripts, and I had only built one in the town!!! It turned into a "stupid brawl with cheap troops"...

Even now, it's still very frustrating when you have to work like a steam engine to get troops, capture outposts, build in your castle, and stretch out supply lines to earn money for their recruitment, while your opponent gets all of this for free and in much larger quantities (and that's how it's distributed). It's pointless, nonsense, idiocy, a degradation of the game... :mad: :smile18:

It's pointless, nonsense, utter garbage, a degradation of the game...

Stop whining, play with the fixes then.

Valya, who did you lose to, that this topic is brought up again? :D

Even so, it's still very frustrating when you have to work hard like a locomotive to get troops, capture resource points, build in your castle, and extend supply lines to earn money for their recruitment, while your opponent gets all of this for free and in much larger quantities...

On the other hand, there are many things one can talk about... resource points, for example – some people get them for free... gnomes, nagas... – ideally, the ability to defend resources in a chain, as well as the ability to break enemy supply lines, shouldn't be the defining indicator of skill.
IMHO - Skill mainly determines the ability to prioritize – here and now – in the face of continuously incoming new and emerging information, while the overall picture of the world usually remains undefined.

Yesterday, I played in an expensive poker rebuy tournament. I played from 00:00 to 4:34. The prize places start at 200, and there are 203 people left. I have a good number of chips and am in a great position on the cutoff. I get a pair of kings, and I'm ready to play all-in, no matter what. I raise, my opponent raises too, and we both go all-in pre-flop. He reveals a pair of aces, and I'm out in 201st place. My first thought was that a pair of aces should be banned immediately.

Valya, who did you lose to that this topic resurfaced? :D

This is based on far more than just one game, but the last one really infuriated me. The opponent, having free troops in their capital's courtyard, didn't even bother building barbarians in the secondary town to produce runners despite having their external dwelling on the road. On the same day, I played another game where the free troops were exactly evenly distributed (roughly 30 free ducks and 1 angel for me, about 40 ducks for the opponent) — the fight was interesting and tense, although I think it would have been even more interesting if we removed the free troops from both sides (at the same time, Dragon Utopias would become much harder to take, and maybe some of the imbalance in what they give out would disappear; simply put, they would be taken much less often).

Added after 2 minutes

On the other hand, you could say that about many things... the same external dwellings — that's also something you get for free... dwarf huts, naga... — in theory, the ability to chain resources, as well as the ability to break Griffin Conservatories, is not a defining indicator of skill.

Imagine how many external dwellings and gold you would need to get troops equivalent to, say, 20 ducks and 5 angels?

Try playing other map templates besides SMK; for example, Panic has very few trees and resources.