Orcs – discussion about the race. — Stronghold

Registered: 8/18/2009

Posts: 83

#377 9/16/2009 8:25 AM UTC

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Sorry guys, if I offended anyone (Avenger, etc.), it’s just hard to understand here; some people only know how to chat aimlessly, while others criticize the topic!

Added 2 minutes later
But it seems to me that Fury has been significantly reduced, and it disappears very quickly, and of course, all the additional bonuses are immediately lost. Maybe it would have been better to find a middle ground! I agree that in 3.0, things were different (2 Fury could absorb more than a thousand orcs)!

In reply to Мститель

Registered: 9/3/2008

Posts: 498

#378 9/16/2009 8:26 AM UTC

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Well, now it's clear why the Orcs suddenly became so weak. Version 3.1 significantly weakened them. In version 3.0, Fury was indeed too strong; now, it seems, it's too weak.

In reply to Мститель

Registered: 9/11/2009

Posts: 27

#379 9/16/2009 8:29 AM UTC

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And what about the super abundance of creatures under the Dreadlord? I mentioned it above!

In reply to KITOBOI

Registered: 8/18/2009

Posts: 83

#380 9/16/2009 8:35 AM UTC

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KITOBOI

We're playing version 3.1!
I apologize if this is a bit off-topic! I was just thinking about what to do with Necromancers if they take a Dread Lord hero, level up their super ability, and then... it's game over for the Orc! -8 to morale and -2 to luck, -10% initiative, plus some monsters that lower morale. What should I do? And Necromancers have super abilities, dark magic, and summoning magic! Will the Orc not be able to move at all? (((

Actually, the Orc doesn't care about that (it's not like incorporeal runes), the Orc always has leadership + it's not hard to gather Lionheart + there's a war cry to increase morale (and it adds a good amount), and undead are weak on their own!!! The only problem is darkness! Well, you can level up anti-magic and find a dwarven shield against berserk!

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Avenger

Well, that explains why Orcs suddenly became so weak. Version 3.1 seriously weakened them. In version 3.0, rage was really too strong, now it seems too weak.

But I created a topic below about how rage points are lost! Because it's all about them (that they start to be lost quickly), but no one in the replies helped, and no one knows the exact calculation of how they started to be lost. I've almost figured it out myself with pure examples and calculations; there's a small trick, and if you fully understand it, then rage lasts for a very long time!!!

In reply to TerMinator

Registered: 9/11/2009

Posts: 27

#381 9/16/2009 8:35 AM UTC

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TerMinator

An Orc doesn't care about that (it's not like they're using incorporeality runes), Orcs always have leadership + it's easy to gather Lion's Courage + they have a war cry to boost morale (and it adds a decent amount), and Necromancy is weak on its own!!! The only exception is Darkness, but you can boost Anti-Magic, and find a Dwarven shield against Berserkers!!

Okay! But then the point of Retribution and Battle Frenzy is lost; at best, it will be 0 or +1, and also, bad luck and low initiative.
Now that's a challenge!

In reply to Мститель

Registered: 8/18/2009

Posts: 83

#382 9/16/2009 8:37 AM UTC

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Avenger

Well, now it's clear why the Orcs suddenly became so weak. Version 3.1 significantly weakened them. In version 3.0, rage was indeed too strong; now, it seems, it's too weak.

But I created a topic below about how rage points are lost! Because it's all about them (that they start to decrease quickly), but no one in the replies helped, and no one knows the exact calculation of how they started to decrease. I have almost figured it out myself with simple examples and calculations; there is a small trick, and if you fully understand it, then rage lasts for a very long time, and then the Orcs rule again!!!

Registered: 9/11/2009

Posts: 27

#383 9/16/2009 8:44 AM UTC

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And what about dealing with the undead? ^^

In reply to KITOBOI

Registered: 8/18/2009

Posts: 83

#384 9/16/2009 8:45 AM UTC

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KITOBOI

Good point! But then the meaning of retribution and the enjoyment of battle is lost; it will be 0 or +1 at best, and also luck will be negative, and initiative as well.
What a challenge!

It won't go into the negative with Lion's Courage, and it might even balance out to zero, but that's not so important because the Orc has high attack and defense, while the Necropolis only levels up magic and knowledge, but also has some defense, so the damage won't be that great; the Orcs will deal much more damage with just one counterattack!

In reply to KITOBOI

Registered: 9/11/2009

Posts: 27

#385 9/16/2009 9:02 AM UTC

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It's hard to find a hero with such courage, even though it's not always guaranteed to be successful!
I even read somewhere on a forum that this hero (Deydra) is considered overpowered in official tournaments, probably because of that!
Maybe someone knows! Does Barbarian Luck work properly in version 3.1?

In reply to KITOBOI

Registered: 10/23/2008

Posts: 571

#386 9/16/2009 11:48 AM UTC

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...If I offended anyone regarding the Orcs, I apologize, guys... I don't have version 3.1, so I have to adapt to the situation. ;) I just found out that Fury was reduced in 3.1, but does anyone know by how much? Lion's Courage is not uncommon on large maps; you can find the necklace and cloak in the shop, but the Lion's Crown is a relic and difficult to find! You definitely need the Ring of Initiative against the Dread Lord (+10% or 20%), but if the Dread Lord finds the Necromantic Staff (-20% initiative) and uses it on the Orc... that's a problem. Sorry for the off-topic... And here's another thing: Anti-Magic doesn't do much for an Orc. Berserk and Subjugation with Dispel will still work, just for a shorter time, but Orcs have high Defense, so it's better to take another skill, right?? Or am I wrong?? :smile16:

За кланы! За кровь!

Registered: 8/18/2009

Posts: 83

#387 9/16/2009 8:50 PM UTC

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Since for Orcs, everything revolves around the Fury skill, and everything else only serves to enhance it (main skill, racial skill, warcries), it turns out they've nerfed everything at once! It's like in the example: they took away the runes from the Dwarves, leaving only a couple, and those are not very effective. They removed the super skill and deprived them of their signature magic! We're waiting for 3.2, hoping they'll finish it properly! Because they look so intimidating on the outside, but at the same time, they're completely useless!

Registered: 7/7/2006

Posts: 283

#388 9/17/2009 5:46 PM UTC

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Here is the formula for losing Rage points: Rage_Points_Lost = 1200 * Damage_Absorbed / Stack_Max_HP In simpler terms: Number of Rage points lost = 1200 * Damage Absorbed / Unit Health of the stack. Example: With the base ability, 50% of damage is absorbed. An orc stack is hit for 1000 damage, and the total health of all creatures in the stack is 1000. We get 1200 * 500 (50% of 1000) / 1000 = 600 Rage points lost. In version 3.0 of the game, the formula was slightly different: Rage points lost = 1100 * Damage Absorbed / Unit Health of the stack. The percentage of damage absorption was also changed: 3.1 - 3.0 50 - 50 55 - 60 60 - 70 65 - 80. Honestly, I don't see any changes here that would significantly affect the loss of Rage points.

Белый и Пушистый! Иногда.....

In reply to Snowball

Registered: 8/18/2009

Posts: 83

#389 9/17/2009 8:47 PM UTC

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Snowball

Here is the formula for Rage point loss:
Rage_Points_Lost = 1200 * Damage_Absorbed / Stack_Max_HP
In our case:
Number of Rage points lost = 1200 * Damage Absorbed / Unit Health of the stack.
Example:
With the basic ability, 50% of damage is absorbed. An orc stack is hit for 1000 damage, and the total health of all creatures in the stack is 1000. We get 1200 * 500 (50% of 1000) / 1000 = 600 Rage points lost.

In version 3.0 of the game, the formula was slightly different:
Rage points lost = 1100 * Damage Absorbed / Unit Health of the stack.
They also changed the percentage of damage absorbed.
3.1 - 3.0

50 - 50
55 - 60
60 - 70
65 - 80.
Honestly, I don't see any changes here that would significantly affect the Rage point drain.

You are mistaken, and in reality, the difference is significant. Absorbing 65 damage or 80, and the multiplier has also changed; this hundred is a considerable value, and all together, it creates an imbalance!

Registered: 7/7/2006

Posts: 283

#390 9/17/2009 9:36 PM UTC

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Let's calculate this with numbers. Let's assume we don't have the amulet, and the damage absorption is 70% and 60% (in 3.0 and 3.1 respectively). Example 1: Damage 500, unit health 1000. 1100*350/1000=385 1200*300/1000=360 (- about 7%) Example 2: Damage 750, unit health 1000. 1100*525/1000= 577.5 1200*450/1000= 540 (- about 7%) Example 3: Damage 1000, unit health 1000. 1100*700/1000=770 1200*600/1000=720 (- the same 7%) Results: Damage absorption decreased by 17% (16.7 to be more precise). Fury is lost 7% slower. Conclusion: Fury is not lost faster in 3.1, but slower than in 3.0.

Белый и Пушистый! Иногда.....