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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.Auto-translated
Couldn't find a more suitable topic, so I'm posting here:
redwhait
It's completely unclear how the opponent found me in the corner of the spawn:smile32:,
Okay, since there are doubts about my honesty, and they have been expressed publicly, I INSIST on an investigation by the Arbitration Committee (AK) in this situation. I have already given my explanations to the opponent in a private message – in the middle of the day, the items found in that hidden spot were boots of speed and artifacts +4 to attack and Combat Shot (which had been scouted out a long time ago). I took them and at the end of the week, and I was planning to attack the capital at the beginning of the week. While I had some free time, I attacked the thieves guarding resource piles, and that's where the stables appeared. I don't like these public accusations – let the AK either give me a ban (if they consider my gameplay dishonest) or issue a warning to my opponent about the unacceptability of such statements and require him to apologize. The opponent has the save files, I don't.
I deleted the latest posts; the controversial issue turned into a squabble that had nothing to do with the matter. The Arbitration Committee (AC) made a decision and will not reconsider it. Calm down, everyone. I'm closing the thread for a week.
To be honest, you deleted some of the contentious posts, but under the guise of that, you also suppressed and discredited the first and, so far, only decision of the AC, which was just as obviously wrongly made as the facts against Vitalik now seem obvious to the AC. I can't say anything about Vitalik; I haven't seen the replays, and I haven't played full games with him, but as a neutral forum member, I'll say that you are engaging in SELECTIVE VIGILANTE JUSTICE. You didn't want to consider the first controversial situation, which has been repeatedly discussed on and off the forum... why? (lack of interest). You failed miserably in the second controversial situation, and when the absurd decision was subjected to legitimate doubts, everything was deleted and swept under the rug because you couldn't provide a worthy answer to the questions raised. Now I see that you are appealing to Vitalik in the same way, saying that he doesn't answer questions, and again, there is pressure. Posts are being deleted, there is blackmail with imaginary power, and I'm not even talking about the fact that there is dirty PR going on through other means of communication, behind the backs of the participants in this thread, although, of course, there are altruists who say that "no one asked them to express their opinion." Vitalik has played on many resources, and it's understandable that with the number of his victories, he has many enemies and envious people. By the way, there are also very suspicious characters among those who are commenting, but apparently, they are not bothering anyone yet, or they are simply part of the "inner circle." It's just a pity that some of you, who have gained authority, most likely through honest means, have embarked on this dirty path... but even worse, there are those among you who don't see it yet and blindly follow you into the SWAMP. P.S. In the end, you will create your own sandbox, where everything may be calm for a while, but it will be much smaller than it is now or could be... and how long will it last? ... knowing your methods, etc. ...
I already left that match to the luck of my opponent.
He confirmed the game. What's the problem? The fact that the person, in the heat of the moment, blurted out something about luck, well, that's not a big deal; it happens to everyone. The word "cheater" or "maphacker" wasn't used anywhere. Where is all this nervousness coming from, Valya? Nerve cells don't regenerate. ;)
He confirmed the game. What's the problem? The fact that the person, in the heat of the moment, blurted out something about luck, well, that's not a big deal, it happens to everyone. The words "cheater" or "maphacker" weren't used anywhere. Where is all this nervousness coming from, Valya? Nerve cells don't regenerate. ;)
The problem is that the same person doesn't see anything strange about the main hero jumping into the darkness across half the map to get the necessary artifacts (I think everyone understands who and what I'm talking about), but when I move 2 squares, suddenly there are unexplained doubts and strange hints. Indeed, Konstantin, such unfounded suspicions irritate me, especially after I supposedly explained everything in ICQ.
The problem is that the same person doesn't see anything strange in the main hero jumping into the darkness across half the map to get the necessary artifacts (I think everyone understands who and what I'm talking about), but when I move 2 squares, suddenly there are unexplained doubts and strange hints. Indeed, Konstantin, such unfounded suspicions annoy me, especially after I supposedly explained everything in ICQ.
Don't confuse hints and suspicions. If the opponent really wants something, let him write in the AK (Administration Panel). As I understand from his posts, he doesn't need to. And if he doesn't need to, then the matter is closed! That's it :)
To be honest, you deleted some of the contentious posts, but under the guise of that, you also suppressed and discredited the first, and so far only, decision of the Arbitration Committee (AK), which was clearly made incorrectly, just as the facts against Vitalik are now obvious to the AK. I can't say anything against Vitalik; I haven't seen the replays, and I haven't played full games with him, but as a neutral forum member, I'll say that you are engaging in SELECTIVE VIGILANTE JUSTICE. You didn't want to consider the first controversial situation, which has been repeatedly discussed on and off the forum... why? (lack of interest). You failed miserably in the second controversial situation, and when the absurd decision was subjected to legitimate doubts, everything was deleted and swept under the rug because you couldn't provide a worthy answer to the questions raised. Now I see that you are appealing to Vitalik, saying that he doesn't answer questions, and again, there is pressure. Posts are being deleted, there's blackmail with the pretense of authority, and I'm not even mentioning the dirty and underhanded PR that's happening through other means of communication, behind the backs of the participants in this topic, although, of course, there are altruists who say that "no one asked them to speak up." Vitalik has played on many platforms, and it's understandable that with the number of his victories, he has many enemies and envious people. By the way, there are also very suspicious characters among those who are commenting, but apparently, they are not bothering anyone yet, or they are simply part of the "inner circle." It's just a pity that some of you, who have gained authority, most likely through honest means, have embarked on this dirty path... but even worse, there are those among you who don't see it yet and blindly follow you into the SWAMP. P.S. In the end, you will create your own little sandbox, where everything may be calm for a while, but it will be much smaller than it is now or could be... and how long will it last? ... knowing your methods, etc. ...
And who is saying this, may I ask? It's that very inadequate guy who promised to beat me up in vulgar terms and, when he was put in his place, immediately ran to complain like a complete <вырезано>. That's the first thing. Second, there is the AK, all of whose members are respected people (and Alex didn't pass the selection, although, out of ignorance, I and some others voted for him, and now we regret it). There is a rule about not contesting AK decisions, so why does Alex constantly and so rudely violate it? Guys, AK, wake up, stand up for yourselves, people will support you, I'm sure (which has already been done). Maybe we can start overcoming favoritism and judging fairly? And maybe then Loy will return? I hope for all of this.
Zhenya, why ban just one? Let's ban both of them again, why are they starting a kindergarten here? Revolutionaries, damn it. I think you did the wrong thing here.
And why two? I, for example, didn't insult him, and generally speaking, my posts haven't been about him for a long time... I said everything earlier and my opinion hasn't changed. A revolutionary? ...call me what you want - but Pit deleted my completely harmless bridge post... so it turns out he kept one of his most successful posts, asked me a bunch of questions personally, and deleted the answers without any justification... there was no profanity there, no insults either... there was the real TRUTH about Pit and the AC... which, unfortunately for him, cuts deeper than profanity... I'll restore the post now...
Pit for LMYes, here are the logs: Alex_R ?(01/07/2009 23:51): Good evening... today we connected and played both of his restarts and one of mine... we decided to postpone until tomorrow since it's late... if anything, we might play it fully tomorrow or at worst finish it the day after tomorrow. We communicated, yes. But where is the info that you couldn't come to an agreement? Here it says that everything is fine between you. There were also no requests from Vitalik about an agreement. Where is the lie?
The lie is that I kept you informed when there was something to say, and when we couldn't play, yes I didn't write to you, but I never promised to do that. But you forgot these logs, they change the picture a bit (I've already shown them): Pit (23:31:43 2/07/2009) hello! postponed? Alex (23:32:04 2/07/2009) well yes, he can only until 12 - and we already sat until half past midnight Alex (23:32:19 2/07/2009) one or two more sessions when it gets going
From these it follows that you are aware that the game is going tough and dragging on, and that we'll finish in a couple of sessions "when it gets going", to which you yourself replied Pit (23:33:23 2/07/2009) there's still time What was the point of me writing in the following days if we didn't sit down due to Vitalik's fault... I waited for him until the deadline and on Monday morning at work around 9:00 AM we discussed it all, when I described the situation to you. This should have been a warning bell for you, and a responsible organizer would have asked the opponent (Vitalik) before setting the final result, "is it true that it's your fault you didn't finish in time?"... if needed, would have demanded and compared the logs... or even passed this question to the AC with info from both of us... or at the very least, being lazy, would have just told me "sorry, I'm busy, submit a request to the AC and attach all the info." But no, you and Dirty decided to give us zeros definitively? But I didn't believe the result and didn't accept it, yet I didn't personally submit to the AC either. I played the last round that same day because the draw was announced, and on the 7th and 8th I continued pestering Vitalik to play. I WANTED TO PLAY... I gave a promise that I would play the tour, give me time, and I APPROACHED IT CONSCIENTIOUSLY, but you write that I'm a liar.
And I don't understand what you're trying to achieve.
Explain, please, what you want. If you don't know what you want yourself, then why should I want to sort it out?
Well damn....:smile35: 1) so that, following the example of how we just sorted this situation out, all similar situations would be sorted out (conscientiously and fairly), it's foolish to hope there won't be more of them. naturally, this is done in a special closed section and without extra eyes, because we see what happens. 2) an adequate, fair.... in short, a normal decision was made. 3) I didn't get an apology from you because of pride or something, but at least admit that with the "zeros" and the subsequent post accusing me of deception, you unjustly slandered me, approached the decision dishonestly, indirectly forced me to piece everything together myself, and also made me look like a fool, who, through your own fault, is being "scolded" by people not involved in the matter. Moreover, they're not writing anything substantial, only phrases like "Alex is rambling" "gibberish" "blackmail with night games" "everyone who wanted to - played" By the way, it's very telling that Zhenya, without reading the entire thread, moderated according to the forum rules, because lately moderators and others with positions delve so deeply into protecting their personal interests and motives that they forget the simple forum rules... and as a result, they don't delete posts they like that violate forum rules, and conversely, they delete completely harmless posts that simply contradict their opinions.
I can't say anything against Vitalik; I haven't seen the saves, and I haven't played full games with him.
Alex, please do me a favor and take a look at the saves. There are far more questions there than in the thread "What could it be?" I don't know if the methods of dealing with this on the portal are correct, but there are too many questions from the participants. As far as I know, Vitalik himself wanted to bring the topic up for public discussion. Alex_R
The first controversial situation, which has been repeatedly discussed on the forum and outside the forum, you still didn't want to consider... why? (no interest).
Because there are other situations that require immediate solutions! Or do you think no one is contacting the Arbitration Committee? We will review your saves with Yakudza and issue a ban if there was cheating, just wait a bit. Please upload ALL the saves from that game. Regarding the clone. I am not aware of the method for catching clones. If the site administration officially states that Yakudza is a clone of another player, then he will also be banned. I have already written a letter to the Creator. Alex_R
P.S. In the end, you will create your own little sandbox, where it may be calm for a while, but it will be much smaller than it is now or could be... and how long will it last? ... knowing your methods, etc. ...
Let's do this: let's have a poll: "Are you satisfied with the actions of the Arbitration Committee?" Let's see the results; if there are many against, we will close this shop without regret!! Alex_R
By the way, it is very telling that Zhenya, without reading the entire thread, moderated according to the forum rules.
If the word <вырезано> was a swear word, then Zhenya acted according to the rules and did what he had to do.
In general, I suggest Alex organize a tournament and see how difficult it is to be an organizer. Don't you want to try?
2 Wlk777: and all the consequences that follow. I'm tired of it.
I called things by their names (by the way, I wrote as the last..., and in that situation, he acted exactly that way, and this is an assessment not of the person, but of a specific action) and I will continue to do so in the future, if I deserve punishment for it, well, what can I do. P.S. The deleted word was quite acceptable.
Alex, please do me a favor, take a look at the saves. There are many more questions there...
I read that thread and even wanted to try to answer all the questions, as I immediately noticed that, for example, questions 135 and 147 contain nothing criminal, and the harassment from Neo simply shows that he considers himself to be in a position where "objections are not accepted" and "the explanation is absurd." Neo is definitely overdoing it. But the subsequent questions turned out to be more serious; if everything is described there as it really is, then there is no need to look at the saves... logically, the "luck" is too consistent, although, as I understand it, this is more like examining the saves between games than during the game itself. It is practically impossible to prove that he might be using map hacks, but the number of questions really raises doubts about Vitalik's honesty, but I cannot 100% assert anything without playing with him personally.Dirty_Player
Let's do this. Let's have a poll: "Are you satisfied with the actions of the AK?" Let's look at the results; if there are many against, then we will close this shop without regret!!
This is a pointless exercise. The AK is held together solely by the authority of its representatives; the organization itself and the decisions made are mediocre, but the goal is not to shut down the AK, but to make it function properly. P.S. I cannot run Tournaments; I know it's not easy, and I'm not putting pressure on the deadline for resolving the problems I submitted... solve other issues, I will wait as long as necessary, but not using methods like deleting only my posts.
Added 4 minutes ago Kash
There was no reason to ban here. Either it should have been stopped somehow earlier.
Points were awarded according to the rules (no one was banned). I just don't understand what "should have been done earlier" means. That is, if you let it go, then it is no longer relevant to fix the violations?
That is, the two of you need to be supervised like little children, lest you clash, heaven forbid. And if punishments for your mutual sniping had been handed out from the start — perhaps it would have been calmer. Hell, let’s just play Heroes instead, shall we?
"both of you" — if referring to girls, my profile clearly says "male" :) On the substance — I’m not just not against it, I’m in favor of strict moderation. I’m confident in what I write, and I’ll say that I never allowed myself to provoke him out of nowhere; it was only due to the moderators’ leniency that I usually responded to his posts in the same tone he set... if anyone found it unpleasant to read — my apologies — now I simply ignore such antics or respond within the rules. As a result, he alone got a well-deserved 7-day ban. P.S. And in general... if you say something — stick by it:Kash
That’s it, I’m not writing here anymore and I’m not engaging in polemics. Others will write without me tomorrow, there are plenty of enthusiasts
...but instead, everyone gives their own opinions and even asks questions — and then I have to explain to each one why this or that... so it turns out my posts get under people’s skin... by the way, I have ICQ 466-212-416... it’s better to write there for many things.
I received a fair comment regarding the work of the AK: there is no information on the forum about what we are doing and whether we are actually doing anything... Therefore, I prepared a report on the activities of the AK over the past 2.5 months since its election. And in the future, for each issue that has been resolved, we will post a brief summary in this thread.
The work of the AK is an absolutely new endeavor for everyone. No one provided us with any legacy or accumulated experience. Therefore, we had to spend a lot of time on organizational work.
1st issue. We reviewed a controversial situation in the Team Tournament. At that moment, the AK was still being formed. /topic/5886/Nagan-4
... I ask players Pit for LM, Scorp, LeBron, Mizrael (members of the council) and Dirty_Player (the person helping with organizing tournaments) to help me in case of emergency. In the event of a controversial situation in private matches, you will inform me of your decision, as there are 5 votes, so I will make a decision based on the majority vote. ... The deadline for the final is two weeks, until June 7 inclusive.
The deadline for the final was missed. By the end of the tournament, only one out of three matches had been played. On the morning of June 8, one of the finalists contacted me (the tournament organizer was not online on the forum or ICQ for several days) and suggested entering technical results for the unplayed matches. I contacted Scorp, LeBron, and Dirty_Player via ICQ (Mizrael was unavailable), discussed the situation, and unanimously made a decision, which was supported by the organizer later that day. Analyzing this simple situation took half of my working day because I had to contact the other participants in the discussion twice and conduct a vote. Therefore, it was logical ->
2nd issue. Organizing interaction between AK members. My vague and utopian dreams of an easy life were realized by LeBron. He fully provided us with the technical means to communicate without having to track each other down on ICQ. Currently, AK members communicate on the forum of a resource independent of ХВ. For each issue, a separate thread is organized where everyone can express their opinion (at a time convenient for them) and vote.
3rd issue. Formulating a rule for resolving disputes regarding suspicions of unfair play. I proposed a draft version of the Rule, which was amended and supplemented by all AK members. The result is in this thread.
4th issue. A controversial situation in the Best Tournament involving setting technical results. Information was provided to the AK by the tournament organizers. 6 members of the AK participated in the discussion. The decision of the tournament organizers was supported.
5th issue. "Training" review of an accepted save file from a suspicious match according to the new rule. It was conducted at the suggestion of one of the AK members. The verdict is not guilty. The case is closed; the players have been informed, and no information about it will be provided to anyone.
Currently, the AK is reviewing save files from several suspicious matches. There is a lot of work to do, and analyzing and reporting on the matches requires time and attention. Many of our forum users are aware of where the open discussion of some of these save files takes place. Any member of the AK can provide a link to those who wish. A decision on these issues will be made, and a brief summary will be posted in this thread.
Wlk777
