Heroes 6 - Discussion — General

Нэйко

17 years ago

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Nah, that wouldn't be very good...

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HoM[M]ie

17 years ago

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I don't quite understand, fellow players, what you think is more important: adding new elements to the game or preserving traditions?
I must have some kind of deviation – the 3D graphics and, consequently, the ability to scroll the map in HoMM V didn't bother me at all; I played with 3D with the same enjoyment as I did with 2D back in the day... I guess I'm still young. :)

aka Sir Holmes aka David Jones.

Thundax

17 years ago

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The point is that if all the best elements are preserved, and something as unremarkable as the Heroes skill tree from the fifth game is added, along with a difficult-to-understand initiative system, and you constantly have to check if you've picked up everything, while the scenarios themselves become more bland, wouldn't it be easier to avoid such a version altogether? I mean, not a complete novice, but at least someone who has played the previous version. Of course, those who started with the fifth game won't understand that more exciting battles can be created with primitive graphics.
Therefore, the changes should be 1) significant, 2) very cool, and 3) not destroy the very spirit of Heroes. This can be done by a team that is not just made up of game developers, but also needs the help of the best players from all factions.

In reply to Zybr

Ty3o-ny3o

17 years ago

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ZYbr

Doesn't the fact that there are more players of the 5th installment in any case bother you?:)

If we don't take into account those "fans" who play the game for a month and then forget about it, then there are more players of the 3rd installment. The fact is that, even judging by the posts on the forum, many people learned about Heroes with the release of the 5th installment. But they learned about it and then forgot about it. Of course, there are many veterans for whom the 5th installment is their favorite in the series, but there are definitely not more of them than those who prefer the 3rd installment.:smile51:

Amko

17 years ago

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Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message

Ergon

not killing the very essence of Heroes

I often hear this phrase, but what does it mean? What changes can "kill the spirit" of Heroes? In other words, after what changes do Heroes cease to be Heroes?

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In reply to Amko

Werevolka

17 years ago

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I often hear this phrase, but what does it mean? What changes can "kill the spirit" of Heroes? In other words, after what changes do Heroes cease to be Heroes?

This reminds me of the complaints of old people – they say that in their time, the grass was greener, the sky was bluer, and Heroes were much better than they are now. For those who started playing with the fifth installment, that's what real Heroes are. But I, for example, started with the fourth, so should I just throw the fifth one away? I think we should move forward, not stand still. IMHO.
Heroes should remain a turn-based strategy game in the fantasy style. All other changes can be considered.

Zybr

17 years ago

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In what way is the 5th installment "simplified"?

At least in terms of movement on the map.
I also don't like the initial setup before the battle. In the 3rd game, you had to be lucky to get such an advantage, and in the 4th game, there's no such easy setup at all. Either you build various barricades during the battle or play without them.

Grammar Nazis, get in the car!!!!11

Writing "korovany" is already too much :) Is the test word "korova"? (which, by the way, cannot be checked itself;))

If we don't take into account those "fans" who play the game for a month and then forget about it, then there are more people who prefer the 3rd game. The fact is that, even judging by the posts on the forum, many people learned about Heroes with the release of the 5th game. But they learned about it and then forgot. Of course, there are many veterans for whom the 5th game is their favorite in the series, but there are definitely not more of them than those who prefer the 3rd game.

What difference does it make how long they play?) Let them play for even just one day; the main thing for the developers is that their product is bought.

Also, there should be an option to send resources from mines/sawmills/quarries via caravans, so that they are not transferred by telepathy.

They are transferred through the air :) There is a special type of dragon - messenger dragons.

I often hear this phrase, but what does it mean? What changes can "kill the spirit" of Heroes? In other words, after what changes does Heroes cease to be Heroes?

Stuffing it with all sorts of nonsense to please the masses.

This reminds me of the complaints of old people - they say that in their time, the grass was greener, the sky was bluer, and Heroes was much better than it is now. For those who started playing with the 5th game, it is the real Heroes. And I, for example, started with the 4th game, so should I just throw the 5th game away? I think we need to move forward, not stand still. IMHO.
Heroes should remain a turn-based strategy in the fantasy style. All other changes can be considered.

We need to move forward, no one argues with that, but firstly, the best is the enemy of the good, and secondly, it is unlikely that we will be able to make real progress.
Do you really think that the 5th game is a big step forward?:eek:
Well, it's a decent game, but it didn't provide any significant leap in development. If the same number of patches could have been released for the 3rd and 4th games, then the 5th game would be a pale shadow compared to them.
So, its only advancement is a good balance of factions, a magic system, and skills (just as the 3rd game was an improvement over the 2nd, the 5th game is an improvement over the 4th).

So don't expect the 6th game :) If it turns out to be unsuccessful, there will be less disappointment, and if it's good, then the delight will be even greater :) Well, the particularly self-critical ones can kick themselves - they'll say, "I didn't believe in it."

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!

Thundax

17 years ago

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Let's not take phrases out of context and try to interpret them in our own way. The point was that the transition from 2 to 3, which didn't significantly change the core gameplay, was well-received by fans. The transition from 3 to 5 didn't appeal to many, so a similar transition from 5 to 6 is unlikely to be well-received. Therefore, a breakthrough is needed, an interesting breakthrough, but no more than, say, the transition from 3 to 4. Otherwise, you can come up with anything, up to and including grenade launchers and tanks; the title can handle anything. Or you can present the game so poorly that only the name remains. Just read the previous post. It's said perfectly; you might as well delete your own post.

In reply to Thundax

Wistrit

17 years ago

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as in the fifth installment, the Heroes skill tree is completely forgettable.

If you can't remember it, does that mean it's bad now?

a difficult-to-grasp initiative.

Hmm? One of the most understandable parameters.

yes, you constantly have to look around to see if you've picked up everything.

Is that not the case with the others?

Of course, those who started with the fifth installment don't understand that you can create more exciting battles with primitive graphics.

More exciting:rolleyes:
What are these accusations against the fifth installment for?

At least with the movement on the map.
I also don't like the initial setup before the battle. In the third installment, you had to be lucky to get such an advantage, and in the fourth installment, there's no such easy setup at all. Either build various barricades during the battle or play without them.

So, buying a bunch of demons like in the fourth installment and gathering everything you can without any particular cost or risk is "complicated"?
Of course, setting up before the battle is easy:cool:
How about angels arriving at the very beginning of the battle and crushing and blocking the archers? And how about picking off the enemy hero's guard and using the priority of your turn for a successful setup?
Now everyone has the opportunity to build an army, which is, of course, much easier and simpler.

Do you really think the fifth installment is a big step forward?

Of course ;)

If the same number of patches could have been released for the third and fourth installments, the fifth installment would be a pale shadow compared to them.

a bunch of patches, Warlords, Tales of Terror, HotA, and other stuff.

Whirlwinds, storms, equilibriums - OMG, what else!!!11

By the way, the second, third, and fourth installments were also aimed at a mass audience at the time; I remember that no club could afford not to have the "universally beloved" but at the same time "how despised" fourth installment.

Tomorrow holds no promises
Except the ones we've made

Ty3o-ny3o

17 years ago

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"The spirit of heroes" has vanished along with this guy:

In reply to Ty3o-ny3o

Zybr

17 years ago

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So, buying a bunch of demons like in HoMM 4 and gathering everything you can without any particular effort or risk is considered "complicated"?
Of course, positioning your troops before a battle is easy.
But how about having angels arrive at the very beginning of the battle and decimate and block the enemy archers? And how about picking off the hero's guards and using your turn priority for a successful deployment?
Now everyone has the opportunity to build an army, which is, of course, easy and simple.

Sometimes it's hard to tell when you're being serious and when you're not. :)
Okay, let me give you an example:
In HoMM 3 (if you don't use tactics) or in HoMM 4, you can't immediately block your archers completely, so you still need time to reposition. It's also harder to attack neutral units through archers (well, in a certain sense). But in HoMM 5, you can hide behind a tree, close yourself off with thick infantry for good measure, and then good luck trying to break through.
In any case, I specifically wrote about positioning in a separate paragraph. And regarding the "simplicity," I gave you the movement example. So, you've highlighted the wrong thing.

Now everyone has the opportunity to build an army, which is, of course, easy and simple.

Okay, so let's also remove primary magic characteristics? What's the difference? It's the same either way.

a bunch of patches, WoG, TE, and other crap.

Whirlwinds, storms, equilibriums - OMG, what else!!!11

That's uncalled for.
Let's count...
HoMM 5: 1.0; 1.1; 1.2; 1.3; 1.4; 1.5; 1.6
2.0, 2.1
3.0, 3.1
Plus TE and another map generator.
That's 8 patches (!) + 2 expansions, totaling 10! + TE (I don't know how many versions you have), so let's say 10 + TE.
Now HoMM 4:
2 expansions + Equilibrium (I think there were two).

As for HoMM 3, I don't know very well, but it seems like there was 1 patch for the base game and Armageddon's Blade, and 2 patches for SoD, totaling 4.

But comparing HoMM 5 to HoMM 4, version 1.0 of HoMM 5 was almost as buggy as version 1.0 of HoMM 4 (and one of the main arguments against HoMM 4 is its unfinished state).

And WoG for HoMM 3 is something completely separate, not closely related to HoMM 3. Well, except that TE seems to have grown out of its ideas, if I read correctly.

Okay, Vistrit, this is still a pointless argument. :) Why don't you write something about HoMM 6? Are you even looking forward to it?

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!

In reply to Zybr

Visiteur

17 years ago

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Who will be making the sixth installment, then? :confused:

Пришёл,увидел,нафлудил.

Arandor

17 years ago

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I don't know about you, but for me, the spirit of the game lies in the old world, the old heroes, the old races (even though they changed a bit in each installment), the history, certain elements in the visuals (the design of units, buildings, the similarities in the game's graphical style), and so on. But in Heroes 5, all of this has changed. Well, the races seem to be the same: elves, humans, mages, demons, etc. But so what? In Disciples, Age of Wonders, and other games, there are also humans, elves, demons, and undead, but those are still different games. The same goes for Heroes 5; it's just that the gameplay is similar to the Heroes series, and the combat system is the same. P.S. As a standalone game, it's decent, but as a continuation of the series, it falls short (in this sense, it's the worst).

Be strong. Believe

In reply to Arandor

Wistrit

17 years ago

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In the 3rd game (if there's no tactics) or in the 4th, you can't immediately completely block your archers, and therefore you need to have time to reposition. It's harder to attack neutral creatures through archers (in a certain sense). And in the 5th game, you hide behind a stump, close yourself off with thick infantry for good measure, and then try to get through.
In any case, I specifically wrote about the arrangement in a separate paragraph. And regarding the "simplicity," I gave you an example of movement. So, you didn't highlight the right thing.

You fly with angels or phoenixes towards the archers – that's top-notch tactics :smile04:
That is, if you don't get the skill, you get a penalty.

closed yourself off with thick infantry for good measure

And then you get hit with magic :smile04:
In the 3rd game, can't you block with a stump if you use tactics?
Regarding movement...

buying a bunch of imps like in the 4th game and gathering everything you can without any particular cost or risk, is that "complicated"?

Is it complicated that the number of moves depends on the troops... there are 5 heroes and a couple of higher-tier creatures, no imagination?

Well, let's also remove primary magic characteristics? What's the difference? What's the difference either way?

Hmm? 7
That is, when a skill that gives an advantage only to the one who gets it is made available to everyone, then this is, of course, against balance and a general degradation? Ask the favorite, he knows a thing or two about 200%+ damage to Chaos :smile54:

5th game: 1.0; 1.1; 1.2; 1.3; 1.4; 1.5; 1.6
2.0, 2.1
3.0, 3.1

Okay, so what? So many patches? Like, the more, the worse?
And how many times has Equilibrium changed? A hundred plus, at least.
And it's just interesting what will be in the patches that will suddenly "outshine" the 5th game?)

1.0 of the 5th game was almost the most buggy version compared to 1.0

Great, I played it.

this is despite the fact that one of the main arguments for the 4th game not being popular is precisely its unfinished state

Oh yeah, of course, everyone says that the 4th game is the true "Heroes," it's just unfinished :smile04:

Better write something about the 6th game. Are you waiting for it?

Honestly? I'm curious what it will be like) but it's not a fact that I will play it.

PS as a separate game - it's good, but as a continuation - no (in this sense, it's worse than all the others)

For some, the spirit of heroes is the game "Heroes of Might and Magic," and for others, it's "wow, what cool castles! I'll pick a color to match..."
If you think about it, each part from 1 to 5 has changed beyond recognition. But then it changed for the 4th time, and suddenly, the spirit of heroes died. :smile41:

Tomorrow holds no promises
Except the ones we've made

Arandor

17 years ago

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Vis, there’s no need to bring up the colors). I just wanted to have some fun, and you guys were all so serious, so…)). And it doesn’t really have anything to do with the topic.

Yeah, that’s exactly what happened). Because from 1 to 4, the castles didn’t change much (some units moved from castle to castle), and there were veteran heroes, but in 5, all of that was erased… It’s like taking the history of the world and rewriting it from scratch, while still keeping the same nations and peoples. You’ll get the same result.
Also, you can take the appearance of units, buildings, and objects as an example… and it’s not about the 3D graphics (because you could have made it similar and good), but about a complete redesign.
imo

Be strong. Believe

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