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Posts from Built-in autosave feature (for the TE version).Auto-translated
Yeah, add TE-lite and hold separate tournaments for each version... :)
It's a bad idea, in my opinion. A more realistic scenario:
1) Shades of Darkness (with TE-lite as a supporting mod) 2) TE (with features from asm and improved gameplay)
Besides, SoD balance sounds ridiculous :). TE balance isn't great either, but it's acceptable. I don't know what asm balance will be like; I think it will be something in between.
New players come in small batches and quickly fall under the influence of organized groups. It is these groups that should be influenced. Right now, you are opposing them, questioning the success of the entire event.
Here, you can create a new, powerful group that doesn't need to be influenced, one that can be managed. New players need a convenient, comfortable place where they can play. Wic
I agree with that, but solving these problems doesn't require creating unnecessary complexity.
I think I'm actually trying to move away from the principle of "creating unnecessary complexity." Wic
I'm afraid they won't switch. Or rather, they will switch, but will ask someone to return these bonuses to the game beforehand (I, for example, will definitely ask).
Well, returning the bonuses to the game is certainly a drawback..., because it contradicts the principle of uniform game rules, but I think when the time comes, it can be implemented.
TuSamurai: Samurai
if simultaneous turn mode is released, it will be very, very raw, with a bunch of new bugs, new difficulties, new rules, etc. Or it might not be released at all.
Unfortunately, this is true, and it will definitely be impossible to avoid bugs. Whether it will be released, I would answer more positively, as we have already tested it!!!! I really liked it... but there are still problems with bugs.... for example, simultaneous turns didn't work at all in SAGA ((( I'm working on it. Samurai
In my opinion, the best option would be to release SoD with simultaneous turn mode and TE with it + ideally, an asm version. ... Although I understand that this is a huge amount of work, and most likely an impossible one.
and Dirty
1. SoD-balance 2. TE-balance 3. asm-balance
Yes, that's right. In the future, I would like to implement this as well. My idea for a program - a hero management center: "A program that launches before the game and greatly simplifies the player's life in terms of settings, finding players, keeping track of games, etc." "Managing settings Full game configuration. TE.ini, WOG-options should be removed and all settings should be transferred to a user-friendly format." "The ability to have pre-installed settings, such as: "full TE", "TE without experience", "Retro SoD". Maybe the ability to save your own settings profile." http://www.heroes-iii.com/tree.php But again, according to my concept, we need to strive for minimalism in settings. Samurai
pushing your own idea of balance, using the already successful simultaneous turn mode
I just really liked this phrase )))
And in conclusion: to create a good mod, you don't need to be a top player, you just need to be a good player, be able to think and analyze.
In the previous posts, everything was described accurately.
Yeah, add TE-lite and hold separate tournaments for each version...
It's a bad idea, in my opinion. A more realistic scenario:
1) Shades of Darkness (with TE-lite as a supporting element) 2) The Succession Wars (with features from ASM and improved gameplay)
Besides, "SoD-balance" sounds ridiculous. TE-balance isn't great either, but it's acceptable. ASM-balance, I don't know what it will be, but I think it will be something in between. Yesterday 21:36 Dirty_Player: Why not make everything optional, so there's a menu with three options:
1. SoD-balance 2. TE-balance 3. ASM-balance
Secondly, I don't understand why they did that. Why are multiple settings a bad thing? ASM and Mee decided to do this because of some overly complicated idea in their own minds. Who is it bothering, and how is it bothering them? I think it's nonsense. ASM's quote about TE settings: "We have to spend an hour negotiating." Who is negotiating for an hour, and where? I can't figure it out.
Damn it, leave Asm alone, it's disgusting to read, I swear! The guy does so much useful work, and for free!!! I haven't seen practically a single post supporting Asm in this thread, it's just unbelievable. No one thought about the fact that what Asm is doing is even possible (even Horn initially said that something like this was impossible – meaning simultaneous turns). And after all this, all I see are insults directed at Asm: he didn't do this right, he didn't please that one, that third one (who is not only far from programming but also doesn't really know how to play Heroes). You're annoying, seriously! Let the man do what he wants! All other nuances will be edited later! Asm, respect to you, do whatever you think is necessary, and don't pay attention to anyone. Vic, you're a smart guy, you should understand that the main thing is the foundation, and the minor details (which you mainly criticize) will be refined and settled later with the help of the players themselves. Don't interfere with Asm's work, or he'll lose his inspiration.
Secondly, I don't understand why killing me is a problem. Why is having many settings a bad thing? Asm and Mee decided this because of some incredibly complex setting in their own minds. Who does this bother, and how does it bother them? I think it's nonsense. Asm's quote: "Regarding the settings, you have to negotiate for an hour." Who negotiated for an hour, and where? I can't wrap my head around it.
asm
- create unified game rules: 1) The fewer rules/options, the better. 2) The simpler the rules, the better.
Sometimes, even settings are worse than rules. Precisely because they need to be discussed in advance, and you can't agree on them as the game progresses. BESHA
invisible ...
Thank you for your support. In reality, many respected Heroes players didn't believe in the possibility of implementing simultaneous turns. I had to break down the ideas and algorithms step by step, but even after that, they still said, "No, it's impossible!" This included Horn, Sir Four, and even Slava Salnikov (ZVS). I don't know how it is now... whether they believe it or not, but we still have to admit that the success of the implementation makes me very happy.
And I think discussion and criticism are only beneficial, as they increase interest, etc. I think even the most ardent opponents will still give it a try. ))))\br Inspiration won't disappear either; the most difficult part is over, and now there's just routine work left. The most difficult stage was when I didn't understand how to program it at all. WogTeam/CoreWog and Slava refused to provide the source code (with them, learning would have been an order of magnitude faster), but nevertheless, some people helped. Thank you to Berserk for his support; without him, I probably wouldn't have succeeded. Thank you to Slava Salnikov for his expert advice and to sergroj for his help with programming.
I decided to try playing in TE to experience all the advantages of this advanced new version (fast troop movement, splitting, etc.). We disabled all the TE settings, bringing everything as close as possible to SoD. After a few games, I managed to do quite well as Necropolis, and by the end of the second week, I had about half a legion of skeletons. But I was surprised and disappointed to learn about this... tax on troops. Every day, I started with 0 gold, and I couldn't only produce new troops, but also build anything. This turned me off from the TE version seriously and to this day. Is it possible to add a checkbox to disable the tax as well?
I decided to try playing in TE to experience all the advantages of this new version (fast troop transfer, splitting, etc.). All TE-specific settings were disabled, meaning everything was made as close as possible to SoD. After a while, I managed to get a good start as Necropolis and had about half a legion of skeletons by the end of the second week. But I was very surprised and disappointed when I found out about this... tax on troops. Every day, I started with 0 gold, and I couldn't only produce new troops, but also build anything. This turned me off from the TE version seriously and to this day. Is it possible to add a checkbox to disable the tax as well?
This is a bit off-topic, but the tax (as well as troop experience) can be disabled in Data/TE.ini. A checkbox could be added, in principle.
The tax is specifically designed to balance the game. That is, if one player receives a lot of power (e.g., many dwellings, consulates, hives, or skeletons for Necropolis), they will have difficulty with their economy. Therefore, in the mid-to-late game, it is necessary to build up the economy to compensate for the tax.
Another idea is to introduce a tax on dwellings and double-builds, something like 10% per day of the value of all bonus structures (dwellings and repeated castles/towns) – to make it more difficult to achieve an advantage in power.
Try calculating the cost of all your troops, then take 10% of that, then subtract this amount from your daily income and determine if you'll have enough money on the next turn to build, say, behemoths... Brains for sale. SoD forever!!!
Try calculating the cost of all your troops, then take 10% of that, then subtract this amount from your daily income and determine if you have enough money for the next turn to build, say, behemoths... Use your brain. SoD forever!!!
Hmm... RTFM :). Income after taxes is displayed when you right-click on the amount of money.
Yesterday, I decided to read the HW forum and was surprised to see that the topic about the autosave feature received so many responses. There are some good ideas from both WIC and ASM. The big problem is that there are still fundamental disagreements – for example, I don't see a way to convince WIC to give up on the idea of re-orderable units, and ASM – to abandon the idea of completely removing classes and experience. Considering that there are already more than 50 ideas for the next version of TE, many of which are quite controversial, and given the stubbornness of all parties, I think that another split among players is inevitable. ASM has a powerful advantage (simultaneous turn), but if they attach controversial gameplay changes to it, then even with simultaneous turns, they can forget about the "sodovites" (presumably a reference to a specific player group), and TE players (as progressive and risk-taking) will partially play the familiar TE, and partially – ASM's version.
If the developers agree among themselves, then the division is unlikely to occur. Especially if they strictly adhere to the point I mentioned from the very beginning - not to release unfinished versions to the public, but to release the final version immediately, without the possibility of changing the main settings (variable timers and other things that depend on the type of game).
In fact, that's how TE was originally developed - they would come up with something, agree, implement it => release. Without back and forth. I would like to continue this tradition.
And without nonsense like "choose a game option (SoD, Light, 1.03q, who knows what else)". There should be only one option.
I'm pushing my line not because I'm full of myself or want to please someone. I just see that I understand the philosophy of the game and the mood of the players a little better than Asm, simply because I've been immersed in this for a long time.
This immersion hasn't given me much knowledge on the topic of "how it should be done," so I'm open to discussion, but it has given me a lot of knowledge on the topic of "how it shouldn't be done." Therefore, it will be difficult to convince me, simply because I really believe that I am right, and there are enough objective reasons to believe that I am not mistaken in this assessment.
After all, both Asm and you are somewhat on the sidelines of the main trends and moods, which is why idealistic fantasies regularly pop up, which are not very compatible with the harsh reality. Apparently, because you play little (or not with the players for whom you are making the version).
Late Horn had the same symptoms, which caused a lot of friction between him, me, and Old Man. For example, it was very difficult to get through the obvious idea that TE should be adapted to randomness instead of fixes. Look at your posts in a couple of years, and you will be just as delighted.
Because now Asm has a fixed idea about some kind of unification of players, a single version of Heroes, etc. This is a utopia, the ultimate goal, and the army will be two weeks at most, and not all of it will be bought.
I am proposing a more or less realistic option - preserving the division of SoD-TE (with mutual migration) while maintaining the unity and continued development of the latter. And development is necessary, simply because all the straws of TE (of which there are many) are examined under a microscope, while the logs of SoD are ignored because "it's a classic."
It's not even about new content (I can concede if I am understood on the other points), but about the fact that balance is not improved by such methods (removing classes and experience), but rather the opposite. And it is necessary to adjust the skills, adjust the strength of the castles, adjust the starting factions, adjust the layouts, etc. You need to look here, not at the continuity with SoD.
Every single straw of Team East (and there are plenty) is examined under a microscope, while the logs of Team South are ignored because "it's a classic."
Screenshot #1: "Classic of the Soviet Union..." Screenshot #2: "Team East's logs and what needs to be done with them :)"
... The issue isn't about new items (I might even agree if I understood your other points), but rather that these methods (removing classes and experience) don't improve the balance at all, and may even worsen it. Instead, we need to adjust skills, balance the Castles in terms of strength, balance the starting units, and adjust the map layouts, etc. We should focus on this, not on maintaining consistency with SoD.
Wicc, do you think we don't understand that by removing experience, taxes, and classes, we are diminishing the strategic depth of the game (in this case, TE)? We understand this perfectly!
However, despite all this, the first version will be as we originally intended, perhaps with some minor cosmetic changes influenced by this discussion, and then in subsequent versions, the game will be further developed. It will depend on how things go, how people play and test it.
Now, let's go through the points:
1) Your consumables/hives - this is an interesting solution, but it has obvious drawbacks: the hives/consumables become unnecessary and cease to matter. And the option of ordering them for money would introduce new elements into the game, which, as you yourself said, "we don't need to overcomplicate things." And again, a quote from Horn: "It's easy to come up with something complex, but it's difficult to come up with something simple."
2) Removing Classes - classes are definitely a new element in the game compared to SoD, and they were initially designed based on fixed maps. In random maps, the use of classes is very limited. It wasn't even clear why a new element like classes was introduced when it would have been possible to simply enhance many of the unused skills, such as Eagle Eye, Literacy, etc., or those that are rarely used, such as Artillery, Ballista, Property - most of the class bonuses for random maps can simply be distributed among these skills, which would also enhance them and add more strategic variety to the game, with minimal effort.
3) Removing Experience - experience is a very, very powerful thing. It is through experience that the player's skill level is most clearly demonstrated. It can also be used to overcome "difficult" situations. Experience very strongly levels the playing field, boosts lower-level creatures, perhaps even too much, so that in many cities, building level 7 creatures is simply unnecessary. However, experience is a very new element compared to SoD, and it has a significant impact on the game. However, its functionality can be replaced with a more "gentle" method (see the SAGA forum), but this will be done later in any case.
4) Removing Taxes - taxes are actually a very good thing, serving purely to balance the game. And they have a very weak impact on the gameplay itself. Perhaps there will be an option to enable/disable them. It's up to the player.
5) Balancing Skills - see point 2, but this is still only in the distant future.
6) Balancing Castles - the balance of castles is already quite good in TE, but it's still not perfect. Therefore, after studying the manual and making many changes from TE back to SoD, we believe that we will achieve a slightly improved balance compared to TE and SoD (for example, in TE (and in SoD), the Swamp is very strong, and the growth rates for Gnolls are 15, for Vassals 5... we can revert this back to SoD to 12 and 4 respectively, and so on. There are many examples).
7) Balancing Starting Units - cosmetic adjustments already exist in TE, but there are still flaws that can be easily fixed (for example, in SoD, Logisticians receive 5% per level, in TE +5% to the skill... we can revert this to SoD and reduce it to 3% per level, for example), and at the same time, we can greatly diversify the starting units by enhancing weak skills (see point 2).
8) Balancing Map Layouts - this is currently impossible; it's a matter for the map generator. However, TE already has some developments, such as removing Cartographers and Forts from the map... but there is still a lot to strive for. Also, your (Wicc) idea about symmetrical templates is very interesting, as it could open up many interesting possibilities.
Wicc
