DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.” — Online Tournaments

Qwerty

3/31/2009 11:29 AM UTC

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Enchanted fairies are dangerous primarily because battles involving them can drag on for a long time, giving your opponent a chance to fall asleep. Furthermore, their applications are more diverse, especially if you have the Spirit of Despair.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Qwerty

Wlk777

3/31/2009 11:33 AM UTC

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Qwerty

Enchanted fairies are dangerous primarily because battles with them can drag on for so long that your opponent falls asleep.

And what about griffins? (The battle with them will be even longer because there are fewer of them, but the damage is almost the same; however, few people build them in the first week.) And what about archers with a cart against golems or zombies? (You can kill an infinite number of them, the question is how long it will take.) In general, the argument is not convincing, IMHO.

In reply to Wlk777

Qwerty

3/31/2009 11:39 AM UTC

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Wlk777

What about upgraded harpies? (fighting them would take much longer since there are far fewer of them, but the damage is almost the same, except hardly anyone builds them on the first week). And what about shooters with an ammo cart against some golems and zombies? (You can kill an infinite number of them, the question is how long it takes). In general, the argument is unconvincing IMHO.

First day. Heroes are bought, fairies are upgraded. Naturally, all scrubs are equipped with them.
A scrub with 1-2 upgraded fairies goes out and sees many skeletons. And breaks through.
Never seen a scrub with a shooter and an ammo cart. Or with upgraded harpies on the first day (more often they'd upgrade Troglodytes on the first day, after all).

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Yakudza

Lider1

3/31/2009 11:40 AM UTC

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2Alex_R
Well, what's so bad about some units and heroes returning to the game?
Take Alamar and Jedite, for example; they still need to upgrade their land so that the units remain after the battle when they are restored.

Of course, it would be much more convenient and enjoyable to use a voting system with buttons, checkboxes, and similar things, but:

1. I don't know if anyone else would be interested in this.

2. I don't know how to do it.

I apologize, but I don't understand if your post contains irony or not. Judging by "
"with 141, one shovel per day," it's most likely yes.

But tell me, what's the point of being able to dig it up after 221? It's no secret to you that the average game ends much earlier. It's about the fourth week. And the Grail, in my opinion, is also an important game element, and it would be more interesting to play with it, in my opinion. It would make the game more diverse.

Well, the fact that it's more applicable to the 2CM4D3 template is because it's the most popular.

ps: regarding the upgraded fairies, you know that there is a formula for breaking down neutrals into stacks. And attacking 7 stacks of monsters with one fairy is not a good idea. And regarding the long turn, it can take 30-35 minutes even without them. It all depends on who you're playing with and what the situation is.

Thank you all for your opinions. I'm waiting for criticism

In reply to Qwerty

Wlk777

3/31/2009 11:43 AM UTC

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Qwerty

First day. Heroes are bought, fairies are upgraded. Naturally, all scout heroes are equipped with them.
A scout hero with an upgraded Level 1-2 fairy goes and sees many skeletons.

How many heroes can you have at most? And how many harpies in the attic? ;) In principle, you could give each scout hero a harpy or an upgraded fairy (or a dog, for example), and spend several hours each turn moving around :D, but even if the player themselves have enough patience for this, would anyone want to play with them a second time? ;)

In reply to Qwerty

Samurai

3/31/2009 11:56 AM UTC

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Qwerty

Enchanted fairies are dangerous primarily because battles with their help can drag on in real time, giving the opponent time to get bored. Their applications are also more diverse, not to mention the case when there is a spirit of despair.

I often play on the Test server without a time limit (if the opponent needs to constantly step away for work). I've never encountered such absurd situations. The opponent I play with most often, who also plays without a time limit, is in the top 10 on the Battle.net ladder (so you don't think he doesn't know how to use these things). The issue isn't just about dragging out the game, which is also possible with harpies, but their upgraded version isn't banned. In these kinds of battles, you primarily spend your free time. But if someone is really principled and meticulous, word will spread quickly, and they will learn to play more fairly. So, in my opinion, it's time to allow upgrades.

In reply to Lider1

Alex_R

3/31/2009 12:16 PM UTC

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Lider1

2Alex_R
Well, what's actually wrong with some units and heroes returning to the game?
The same Alamar with Jeddite, they also need to level up Earth Magic so that units remain after battle when resurrecting.

This is one of the priorities to balance the heroes in terms of strength!
I wrote about Alamar and Jeddite that way because even if we allow them - they might not become cooler than Shakti - but they will fall even further behind Deesa, Damacon, Arlach, and others - we need to nerf Shakti - but for now, no way... I rely on the work of the person under the nickname asm (SoD+heavy vs TE-Light)!
I think we need to reduce the number of Troglodytes that arrive at the start for all heroes in general, and especially for Shakti! For example, not up to 40 in a stack for anyone - but up to 30. And then even the Chocolate for Shakti will decrease from 170 to 130, and the regular draw will yield about 100.

Lider1

I apologize, but I don't understand whether your post contains irony or not. Judging by
"with 141 one shovel per day", most likely yes.

it's not irony - but a pathetic attempt to make the task a little more difficult... I agree with the number 141 (can even be plus or minus a couple of days) but so that no more than one pit is dug per day, or in an arithmetic progression
141 = 1 pit
142 +2 pits
143 +3 pits, etc. (only at 212 can you dig with all 8 heroes simultaneously!)

I am for everything that was laid down by the developers (except for bugs and a bit of imbalance)

Lider1

Well, the fact that this is more applicable to the 2sm4d3 template, well, it is the most popular one.

Then it's better to write rules for each template separately!
I personally have no doubt that there is a difference in nuances, but sometimes there can be discrepancies in even more general aspects!

In reply to Wlk777

Qwerty

3/31/2009 1:08 PM UTC

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Wlk777

What is the maximum number of heroes you can have? And how many harpies in the attic? ;) In principle, you can give every scout hero a harpy or an upgraded fairy (or a dog, for example), and walk each turn for several hours :D, but even if the player themselves has the patience for it, will anyone want to play with them a second time? ;)

You can't stockpile enough dogs, let alone upgraded ones, and they're not needed for Efreets anyway, while fairies are available from the start — walking along the path is more fun with a fairy, plus she's single-hex, which is also a factor. Plus upgraded dogs on day one are unreal, and you need to start spreading out early. IMHO it's a correct ban, especially since scout heroes with speed 9 are PRACTICALLY FREE (!!!!!!) — that's a handicap, and for a faction that's far from weak.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Yakudza

Lider1

3/31/2009 1:16 PM UTC

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As I wrote, upgrade after building the resource storage. And this: market, storage, + upgrade of the fairies themselves + loss of tempo if done on the first turn.

In reply to Qwerty

Wlk777

3/31/2009 1:23 PM UTC

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Qwerty

You can't have too many dogs, especially upgraded ones, and they're not needed for Efreet, while fairies are available from the start, and it's more fun to walk the path with a fairy, plus she's a single-unit creature, which is also a factor. Plus, upgraded dogs are unrealistic for the first day, and you need to start expanding earlier. IMO, it's a correct ban, especially since noobs with a speed of 9, which is practically FREE (!!!!!!), have an advantage and, on top of that, a not-weak castle.

Dogs are fine, but what about harpies? They are also often built from the start and have a speed of 9, and here's what's interesting: upgrading harpies isn't as critical for the tempo in the Dungeon, as dragons are still unrealistic, but you still need to aim to get birds in the Conflux on the first day, and upgrading fairies when air units aren't built from the start is an overpowered advantage for the birds on the first day, and if they are built, I would strongly argue against the effectiveness of upgrading fairies compared to upgrading air units. I've never understood and still don't understand the point of banning the upgrade of fairies:confused:

In reply to Wlk777

Oelm

3/31/2009 3:21 PM UTC

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My votes are as follows:
1)

Allow upgrading of dwellings after building a resource depot.

Indifferent.
2)

Allow digging for the Grail. Without visiting all obelisks and restrictions. Or at least starting from level 141.

For! It seems that the World of Chaos players are intimidated by the holiest inquisition; even in a tournament with no rules, they are afraid to allow the Grail. Allow digging without restrictions. (Starting from level 141 – it's not needed in 90% of games).
3)

Allow playing with level 4 magic specialists, using their specialized spells, without building a guild for such heroes:

Against! I don't see the point.
4)

And regarding the bans, I'm increasingly thinking about logistics specialists...

What terrible logistics specialists. Against (on the L-map).
5)

Remove rest 116.

Against!!!
6)

And when a monster of level 5-6-7 appears, it should be automatic, if it's archers or elves, then also automatic.

I agree with level 7, the rest is not significant.

7) My suggestion. Make Necropolis random, because only Rampart works against it.

That's it!

In reply to Oelm

LeBron

3/31/2009 3:28 PM UTC

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Oelm

These are my suggestions.

7) From myself. Make Necropolis random, otherwise only Rampart works against it.

That's not true. Dungeon also works :)
And Necropolis really needs to be adjusted... BUT if we remove Galtran from the game, we'll end up with the same situation as now on the portal, meaning Necropolis will become an incredibly random faction.

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D

In reply to LeBron

Oelm

3/31/2009 3:31 PM UTC

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Given a certain scenario, what difference does a Phoenix make? With Galtran, you simply have no choice but to reach the third week, especially if he has at least a decent yield (on fast and medium maps). With a random hero, the time limit will be reduced to 4-5 days, and the pace will be slower.

In reply to Lider1

КостяN

3/31/2009 9:52 PM UTC

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Lider1

1. Allow upgrading fae after building...

I'm for it! but it would be better to use the 2nd level of magic rather than storehouses (this isn't my idea - it was Dirty Player's and has already been mentioned).

Lider1

2. Allow digging up the grail. Without visiting all obelisks and restrictions. Or at least from 141.

I'm for it! although, I must admit, I haven't mastered the trick of digging it up quickly:o ...

Lider1

3. Allow playing with level 4 magic specialists

I'm for it! and without restrictions;) .

Lider1

4. As for the bans, I've been thinking more and more about logistics specialists... Restrictions, for example, at level 10-12, or even a total ban...

Well, here I'm rather against it... I also suggested nerfing them, but slightly less: forbid them from using "control" until a certain date, say 211 (maybe 141), and angel wings should be completely taboo for them (if God forbid they got them in the Dragon Utopia - let them give it to some noob so he can fly:D).

Lider1

5. Remove rest 116. (If desired, it drags games out terribly).

WITH BOTH HANDS AND FEET - I'M FOR IT!!! (read the signature:) ) And I'll add - that you shouldn't fear Valk or Kirya here as much as Shakhter:D - but it makes playing more fun, and develops flexibility of thinking. For those who don't like such prospects - what do you have a pen for? By the way, why not use this rule to slightly rein in necros too? During this period they aren't as formidable yet:D ...

Lider1

6. And if a monster week of level 5-6-7 drops - auto, and if it's archers or elves, then also auto.

Perfectly formulated! I'm for it!

Overall, respect!:smile54: (not a joke:) ).

Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:

In reply to Yakudza

Wlk777

4/1/2009 1:01 AM UTC

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Good lord, can we finally ban this Monster Week? No one will even notice, there's such a heated debate going on right now, it's insane, you'd think it happens every day.