Posts from Heroes of Might & Magic III: Horn of the Abyss

and some even play checkers, and there are more of them than all the others combined).

Added by: vbn. Everything written in this message regarding the development of Horn of the Abyss is the personal opinion of Mr. Corwin, lacks sufficient evidence, and cannot claim to be the ultimate truth.

blah blah blah, there were no fewer promises regarding 3.59 - let's see if you fulfill even 10%.

And so as not to be baseless - could we get some quotes on what was promised and where by the CorWoG team?
The promises made by the WoGteam before we took over the refinement of the project are being fulfilled according to our capabilities. Most of what was promised has been done. Now we are implementing our own ideas. Which ones they are will be announced as we succeed, without overpromising. Any more questions?

yes, but not exactly like that - in WoG there is only one "tool" - the ERM scripting language.
we don't use it in HotA - all parameters, innovations, etc. are hardcoded directly into the game code, without using the ERM language. this proves that the addon "fits" perfectly on the original SoD 3.2, which has no ERM at all.

Interesting. Tell me, do those directly involved in implementing your promises know what you're saying here?
Roughly speaking, WoG consists of:
1. A technical platform that is connected in a rather complex way to the SoD exe, requiring the initialization of all imports, initializing the CRT (a bit easier when connecting external dlls, but only "a bit easier"); consisting of many functions written to replace the original ones, byte replacements in memory; from numerous intercepted events in the exe; from many written hooks, etc. All this together creates, so to speak, the functionality of WoG - the intercepted, controlled, and expanded functionality of SoD.
2. An ERM scripting language, which actually allows the platform's functionality to be used to create a mod. Functionality does not exist without ERM, because when it is used, a parsed ERM receiver is created, which is then passed to the ERM processing function.
I got a bit carried away with the details to show what WoG is, and what tasks and difficulties were faced during its creation.
So, based on the words of Docent Picolan, the HotA team does not use the ERM functionality of WoG at all, but is instead editing the SoD exe directly. That is, all the work done by a number of programmers led by such veterans as Slava Salnikov, Alexander Karpeko, and Alexander Trifonov over several years, the HotA guys are doing again from scratch as a side project :smile13:
Well then, I can only repeat Izruk's words about deception.
Let me clarify my position. I have nothing against what these guys are DOING. After all, there are other people on the HotA team who actually do things, rather than engaging in wordplay on forums. And finally, any creation in the name of the development of this wonderful game is worthy of respect in itself.
I don't care about what was promised and declared here regarding the capabilities. I can imagine and assume whether there is something behind them or if it's just window dressing. Time will tell.
But I am against dirty PR, where things are stated that are, to put it mildly, far from the truth, for unclear reasons, probably to increase the significance of their pursuit and "score points," when it is said "we're tired of waiting, we'll make our own ADDON, white, fluffy, ideal, simply perfection, unlike this walking imbalance..." and other blah-blah, while in essence making the same variation on the theme - WoG with its own settings and bells and whistles.

accordingly - your statement that HotA is some kind of mod based on WoG is fundamentally wrong, even more so - absurd.

I don't think so. Why - stated above. This statement is especially interesting together with another one of yours, slightly earlier:

as well as we use some of the capabilities of WoG to implement our ideas. including the ERM language for now.

Quite telling.

HotA can be installed on WoG as well as on the original.

Installation on the original means that WoG will be included in the installation.

where did I criticize WoG?

Forgot already?
For example, here:

moreover - we will review the balance as such and fix the flaws of WoG. (and as is known, many options there are a terrible imbalance)

or here:

in essence, almost all WoG options are a balance break in the game.

Enough?

except for compatibility with 3.59, which would be nice to actually see the light of day, rather than remain some magical myth awaited by players for more than FOUR years (crazy, what can be done in such time?.. move mountains.)

Except for compatibility - I did a favor :smile52:
First of all, at the moment HotA also only exists in a couple of dozen screenshots, a mountain of promises-statements, and multi-page discussions on various forums. Secondly - we do what we can. Any complaints? Tired of waiting - then don't wait :)

- Can you make level 8?
- I can, but it's imbalance
- Weakling.
- Here is your level 8.

Well done, Monza. Yes, how easily we can crap on someone's ideas when we disagree with them. Without holding back. Keep it up. :) You're right - all of WoG is just a collection of stupid "I dare you" whims that the developers, those scoundrels, are forcing on you.
Now HotA is a different story. All the ideas there are correct, ideal, exactly what the doctor ordered. Amen.
Well, gentlemen.

Added by: vbn. Everything written in this message regarding the development of Horn of the Abyss is the personal opinion of Mr. Docent Picolan, lacks sufficient evidence, and cannot be considered the ultimate truth.

Corvin, your posts are off-topic; there's no need to start lengthy, ostentatious arguments. Few people will be interested in reading this.

Any more questions?

Ha... no, I didn't have any questions before. Just facts.

WoG consists of:
1. A technical platform that connects in a rather complex way to the executable file of SoD, requiring the initialization of all imports and the CRT; it consists of many functions written to replace the native ones, byte replacements in memory; it consists of numerous events caught in the executable file; it consists of many hooks written, etc. All of this together creates, so to speak, the functionality of WoG - the functionality of SoD that has been caught, taken under control, and expanded.
2. The ERM scripting language, which actually allows you to use the platform's functionality to create a mod. The functionality does not exist without ERM, because when it is used, a parsed ERM receiver is created, which is then passed to the ERM processing function.

1. What are these vague concepts like "technical platform"? Just empty words devoid of any meaning.
HotA has its own installer, which doesn't correspond to the WoG installer - and we don't see any problems in the patch for SoD with the introduction of the necessary resources into the executable and LOD files. :smile32:
Why bother with some kind of magical "technical platforms" (it sounds very beautiful :)), when there is a wonderful concept like "patch"?
2. I already wrote that we are not using ERM, should I repeat it again?

That is, all the work that a number of programmers, led by such experts as Slava Salnikov, Alexander Karpeko, and Alexander Trifonov, did over several years, the HotA team is doing from scratch, casually, in between other tasks.

Goodness... Corvin, you really don't understand what you're talking about. Is it really so difficult and complicated to make a simple patch? :smile26: Honestly, you're scaring me.

Well, all that's left for me is to repeat Izruk's words about envy.

Feel free to repeat whatever you want - download the beta version of HotA in winter, take a look, and you'll probably find a couple of bugs just "to complain" about. :smile32:

In the end, there are other people on the HotA team who actually do the work, and don't just engage in wordplay on forums.

Ha-ha, of course, the city of Port, all the objects, artifacts, interface, menus, spells, portraits, the website, and everything else except the monsters were made by Michael Jackson, and I just sit on the forums and write news; I don't have anything else to do. :smile26:
Corvin, izrukvruki - if you have nothing to show people in your CoreWoG, don't try to damage the reputation of other projects. That's at least impolite.

"We're tired of waiting, we'll make our own addon, white, fluffy, perfect, simply the epitome of perfection, unlike this walking imbalance..." and so on, but in reality, it's just another variation on the theme - WoG with its own settings and features.

Well, Corvin, no one is stopping you from believing that wholeheartedly. Please... I've already shown you, written, and even given examples - that our project is not related to WoG in any way.
If you insist, we can even refuse to maintain compatibility - I think players will be disappointed, but at least our glorious Corvin will be happy.

Do you have any complaints? Tired of waiting - don't wait.

What are we waiting for? We're not waiting for anything - we're working, while you, my friend, are typing your complaints and trying with all your might to discredit our addon.

Epilogue:

"Envy is a terrible feeling" (c) folk wisdom.
"Everybody lies" (c) House M.D. :)

Dear vbn. I understand your desire to maintain order and cleanliness in the threads. But there are things that shouldn't be censored. In this thread, a number of statements were made that I believe distort reality, and I have grounds for this (some of which I have provided). These statements create a certain opinion among forum users, which is not entirely accurate. I felt it was necessary to speak out about this. Since this is not documentation, but a communication forum, issues such as PR, politics, and the like should also be important. It cannot be the case that it is permissible to say one thing to one person, but attempts to explain that what was said earlier does not entirely correspond to reality are censored. In the form in which my posts are presented, they say absolutely nothing of what I actually wanted to say. I don't know who they are needed for and what they mean in this form. I did not remove the "off-topic" tags from the messages because I didn't put them there. But there are two options here: Either I ask to remove the tags and leave the posts as they are, because I said everything I wanted to say there and I have nothing more to add. This is regarding the continuation of the argument, if you are afraid of it. Or I ask to delete these posts completely, because, as I said, I did not say what they have been turned into. However, the question remains open as to why the statements themselves, which have no basis, are not deleted. But I can live with that. And by the way, my opponent's post also needs to be fully restored. It is very revealing, and it immediately shows the extent to which the person understands what I am saying. Leave it to the reader to understand and choose the opinion they agree with. Thank you for your attention. Dear Corwin and Docent Picolan! Your posts numbered 359, 363, 377, and 378 have been fully restored, but a warning phrase has been added to the beginning of each of these posts: Everything written in this message regarding the development of Horn of the Abyss is the personal opinion of Mr. ..., has insufficient evidence, and cannot claim to be the ultimate truth. If you are concerned that the post was moderated, remove the link to vbn from the posts and use the meaning of the italicized phrase in your own words.

26. New screenshot and animation for Kronwerk:


(The screenshot has incorrect building names for levels 3 and 5 – the "Ul." prefix should not be there.)
----
Units represented by the picture are highlighted in bold.

Level 3 - Alternative.
Gunner / Artilleryman.


Level 4 - Alternative.
Mountain Ram / Arhar.


Level 5 - Alternative.
Shaman / Ul. Shaman (let's come up with the name together).


---
The complete development tree for Kronwerk, along with the alternatives, looks approximately like this:

Level 5 - Alternative.
Shaman / Elder Shaman (let's come up with the name together).

Medicine man? Rune Shaman? High Shaman (nonsense)?
Sorry, nothing comes to mind right now. :)
Overall, the city looks impressive. :)
The only thing is, maybe we should swap the Skald and the Shaman? So that the alternative faction mainly consists of dwarves.

shaman... not bad. really not bad. :smile20:

Because the alternative would mainly consist of a gnome.

Well, each alternative creature doesn't depend on each other. That is, there aren't "branches" of alternatives - the third level can be an alternative, and the fourth can remain standard.
So, there won't be a specific concept of an alternative in the game - it all depends on the player's desire.

cool, the screenshots are quite nice =)

Added 2 minutes later
as far as I understand, in the improved Factory, a dwarf with a cannon is produced; I think such a unit is unnecessary because this is "Heroes of Might and Magic," and if you add such a beefy guy with a cannon, it will no longer be heroes but something like Warhammer.

In Heroes, the most important thing is strategy and atmosphere, not particularly impressive graphics or effects.

I agree 100%! :smile01:

I didn't look for quotes, I'll just say it simply.
Creating such add-ons is primarily a personal desire of their authors, and no one and nothing obligates them to improve Heroes! And someone mentioned the huge amount of time spent on development... I repeat - it is primarily a personal desire of the authors, and as I understand it, it does not have any commercial basis! Try working for free - what feeling does it give you? So they could have thanked the developers!

Thank you, NOTA team! Thank you to you too, WOG team! We are waiting for your add-ons!:smile54:

And regarding level 8, my opinion is - it's not necessary! The classic version is better!!!

shaman... not bad. really not bad.

Maybe call the regular one a Shaman and the improved one a High Shaman?:)

Creating such mods is primarily a personal desire of their authors, and no one and nothing obligates them to improve the heroes! And someone mentioned the huge amount of time spent on development... I repeat - this is primarily a personal desire of the authors, and as I understand it, it does not have any commercial basis! Try working for free - what kind of feeling does it give you? So they could have at least thanked the developers!

Like-minded person, for sure xD

When Ar and I were developing Nygon, I looked up some synonyms in a thesaurus.
Here are the synonyms for "shaman": vedun, volkhv, vorozhey, vrach, vrachevatel, колдун, konoval, lekar, travnik, tselitel, shaman, sheptun...
Choose what you like, although in my opinion, a shaman is a mage who communicates with spirits, so the upgrade should have a similar name: Invoker of Spirits, Speaker with Spirits... I don't know, something related to spiritualism -> spiritualist...

I don't think such a unit is needed because the heroes are from "Might and Magic," and if you add such a brute with a cannon, they will no longer be heroes but something like Warhammer.

Well, if you play MM 6-8, you can see that cannons exist in Enroth. The Dwarves just made a manual version...

WhiteLizard and Maggot: I agree, I even share the same opinion... Sometimes. Screenshots: +1 Cannons? Absolutely fine. In all fictional and real times. Regarding the names, I think Drnik said everything. P.S.: Something like this...

Couldn't you call the regular one a "Shaman" and the improved one a "High Shaman"?

Well, yes, that would be more logical.

if anyone is interested, I can suggest...
"one who speaks with spirits"
it's a bit long, of course, but it would be correct according to the logic. "Shaman" could be used to refer to a student who has not yet had any conversations with spirits, but already knows a lot. "One who speaks with spirits" is unambiguous. :)

I hope I won't be stoned:smile36:

and also... when will Hota be released?