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Posts from Discussion about Dungeon (Dark Elves).Auto-translated
You can take a Gem Mine with a support hero and one Fury if you're lucky with the neutrals. That's how I took Mercury with Irbet (it was guarded by upgraded Swordsmen).
One Fury is too much; you probably wouldn't risk it in a real game, even against Zombies or Golems (you have to maintain concentration for too long). And I don't even want to talk about attacking Armored creatures; it can lower morale.
2. But the point is that, for the sake of a pure experiment, there was neither Lethos nor Vaishya, and the second hero in the tavern wasn't a Necromancer.
3. Yes, the terrain matters (I placed 1 Skeleton, 1+1 Stalker, and 14 Furies). I lost 1 Skeleton and 2 Stalkers. But it's also possible with different terrain. Although you're right, it's dangerous.
So, I decided to try the save. On the second day, Lethos was generated because we already tested without him, so I decided to play with him for 3 more days. The result is approximately the same, but you can take Cyclops with Stalkers and a few Skeletons in online mode without losing Stalkers with a level 0 Lethos, and Sinithar can crush Behemoths with Furies. Take the chests for gold and reach the center on day 9. And then the extra heroes will be useful; you still need to run for 1-2 more.
4. Having a 4th support hero on the main hero can lead to either economic losses or a loss of the main hero's development tempo (gold chests). Or am I wrong?
On this map, you're right; the density of battles isn't too high, so it's profitable to take the chests. On maps like "Former Friends," there are significantly more battles; it's even more profitable to fight than to pick up chests, and even more so in terms of money and artifacts.
P.S. I don't know about you, but I find our communication pleasant and useful. I periodically learn something new for myself.
Well, I only used supports as supports, except for Lucretia's Skeleton attack on the mine – just for the sake of the experiment. Because in another game, the neutrals could be different. And in a real game, I wouldn't dare attack Latnikov with just one Fury. But against Zombies – that's perfectly fine. I was only hitting them with Beasts and the hero on the 2nd day... Regarding the density of battles and chests – I agree. There are many chests, but few battles. There were 3 chests lying near the Hut. If you take all the chests for money, it will be enough for a couple more heroes :) Yes, I forgot to post the hero's stats... 6-3-7-5. Mana – 17/75 In general, it's impossible to do anything decent here without supports.
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой, Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой, Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд, Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
I don't know how to upload save files. Could you please provide more details on how you do it? For example, on the first day, did you build a tavern, hire a hero, and then join their troops to the main hero, or not? Did the main hero go to clear the mines, and did the second hero follow, capturing the mines so that the main hero wouldn't lose movement points? On the second day, did you build scouts in this way? On the third day, did you build the scout upgrade, and then return to the city to upgrade the scouts and hire more? Do you get Furies on the fifth day? How do you get the additional hero to deliver them if, first, they follow you, and second, you move so far in five days that no chain of movement will help? If you hired a second hero and they went in one direction while the main hero went in another, then what movement points are you talking about? Or do you take all the mines with scouts, even those guarded by level 5 creatures? When I played, the gold mine was guarded by two groups of 12 monks and one group of 12 adepts, and the sulfur mine was guarded by four groups of 12 cerberuses, and the gems were guarded by three groups of 10 master archers. Can minotaurs be built without a town hall? This is not a statement, but a question. And is it correct not to build a town hall in the first week?
I have already completed many scenarios, and in the first week, I specifically did not take an additional hero, even in scenarios where the city has a level 3 building and it would be useful, but I didn't take one, and I still finished successfully. I play against the computer, not against people, and I haven't tried playing against people, so I won't discuss that option. But in general, the computer also hires a lot of heroes in the first week. I almost always play on large maps; I don't like small maps.
Can you provide more details on how you do it? For example, on the first day, you built a tavern, hired a hero, and added their troops to the main army, or not?
Most often, 2 heroes are purchased right away, and this map is no exception. With this many treasure chests on the map, it is definitely affordable. Additional heroes also reveal the map, giving you much more information for planning your actions. I highly recommend trying to play it yourself.
The main hero went to clear the mines, and the second one followed, capturing the mines so that the main hero wouldn't lose movement points.
It's not necessary to fight with only one hero, especially for the Temple faction. Whoever has the troops fights. One Fury can take down the Brutes, while the other uses Stalkers to shoot down the Archers. This is a very convenient division of labor. While it's desirable to capture the mines on the day you clear them, it's not essential.
On the third day, you build an upgrade for the Scouts. Do you need to return to the city to upgrade the Scouts and hire more?
Returning is an exaggeration; it's more like running past. While the main hero hasn't gone to the Archer, there's a lot of activity near the castle. If you're playing with 3-4 heroes, someone will definitely be nearby. By the way, by the third day, a caravan with another 7 potential Stalkers may arrive.
You get Furies on the fifth day. How will the additional hero deliver them if, first, he follows you, and second, in five days, you'll be so far away that no chain of movement will help?
The longest distance is 3 days, when you run to the Archer, but that's not immediate, as you need to level up along the way.
Or do you take all the mines with Scouts, even those guarded by level 5 creatures?
Some are taken, some are not. In the save game being discussed, the Nightmares near the gold mine are cleared by Stalkers, and the Cyclops by Furies (due to the terrain) or Stalkers, if Leto arrived on the second day.
When I played, the gold mine was guarded by two groups of 12 Monks and one group of 12 Adepts.
You're either mistaken, or it's a bug. The guard consists of 10-20 units of level 5. 20-50 Monks stand on the sand, guarding a level 3 spell.
and the sulfur mine was guarded by 4 groups of 12 Cerberuses, and the gem mine by three groups of 10 Archers.
There are a bit too many Cerberuses; you were unlucky. But both they and the Archers have low HP, and they are easily defeated by the "Arrow" (Plague) spell and Stalkers.
Can Minotaurs be built without a Town Hall? This is a question, not a statement. And is it right not to build a Town Hall in the first week?
You need a Forge to build Minotaurs. You can skip the Town Hall, but it's better to focus on Minotaurs.
I've played many scenarios, and in the first week, I didn't specifically hire an additional hero, even in cities with a level 3 building that would be useful, but I didn't hire one, and I still finished successfully. I play against the computer, not against people, and I haven't tried that, so I won't discuss the option with live players. In general, the computer also hires a lot of heroes in the first week. I almost always play on large maps; I don't like small ones.
The computer is inherently unintelligent; it only occasionally demonstrates some rudimentary thinking in campaigns, and even then, only because the developers anticipate the strengths and level of your hero and army. If you only play against the AI, it creates the illusion that your actions are correct and that your favorite faction and hero are superior. When playing against the AI, it makes sense to improve the speed of your development on the map and the time it takes to reach strategic zones. No one prevents you from thinking, experimenting, and even reloading. Playing against it, in my opinion, is absolutely pointless.
Monks are definitely the way to go; I might try playing through it again to see. I managed to defeat the Cerberus, but not without taking some damage, and I simply didn't have enough strength or mana left to deal with the archers. I understand the general idea behind your strategy, and I'll definitely give it a try and share my impressions.
I don't know how to upload saves. Could you please provide more details on how you do it? For example, on the first day, did you build a tavern, hire a hero, and join their troops to the main hero? Did the main hero go to clear the mines, and the second hero followed, capturing the mines so that the main hero wouldn't lose turns? On the second day, did you build scouts in this way? On the third day, did you build an upgrade for the scouts and hunters? Do you need to return to the city to upgrade the scouts and hire more? Do you get Furies on the fifth day? How do you get the additional hero to deliver them if, first, they follow you, and second, after five days, they will be too far away for any chain of movement to help? If you hired a second hero and they went in one direction while the main hero went in another, then what turns are we talking about? Or do you take all the mines with scouts, even those guarded by level 5 creatures? When I played, the gold mine was guarded by two squads of 12 monks and one squad of 12 adepts, and the sulfur mine was guarded by 4 squads of 12 cerberuses, and the gems were guarded by three squads of 10 archers. Can minotaurs be built without a town hall? This is not an assertion, it's a question. And is it correct not to build a town hall in the first week? I've already completed many scenarios, and in the first week, I specifically didn't take an additional hero, even in scenarios where a city with a third-level building would have been useful, but I didn't take one, and I still finished successfully. I play against the computer, not against people, and I haven't tried it, so I won't discuss the option with live players. In general, the computer also hires a lot of heroes in the first week. I almost always play on large maps; I don't like small ones.
Well, personally, that's how it looked for me.
Day 1. Built a Tavern. Bought Irbet and Lucretia. Gave all the troops to Synitar, leaving 1 skeleton for the supports. Synitar (as a secondary hero) cleared the tree and grabbed the chest with 1500 experience points. Lucretia picks up the campfire and goes to the second location, passing by the arena. Irbet captures the mine, collects wood, and runs to the scout dwelling.
Day 2. Built scouts. The main hero visits the skill-boosting building, clears the arena, and gets +2 to attack. Irbet captures the scout dwelling and goes to the castle. Forms a caravan with the scouts. Lucretia grabs the campfire and runs to the mill.
Day 3. Built an upgrade for the scouts. The main hero runs to the castle, buys reinforcements, upgrades to stalkers, and clears the stones. Lucretia visits the mill and moves to the beast dwelling. Irbet runs to the stones.
Day 4. Built beasts. Lucretia grabs two chests for money, captures the beast dwelling, buys them, and goes to the castle. Irbet grabs the stones and the mine. The main hero visits the stone (+1000 experience points) and moves close to the sulfur mine.
Day 5. Building an upgrade for the beasts. Transfers the beasts to Irbet, buys beasts, and upgrades them all to Furies, transferring 15 Furies to the main hero, leaving 1. The main hero clears the sulfur mine (80 with a few remaining dancers), loses all the necropolis troops and, foolishly, 1 Fury and demons, doubling his mana. Irbet takes the sulfur mine.
Day 6. Building Guild 1. The main hero clears the gold mine (nightmares) and moves to the crystal mine. Irbet takes the gold mine and moves to the mercury mine. Lucretia follows the main hero and takes 500 gold from the mill.
Day 7. Building Guild 2. The main hero clears the crystal mine (minotaurs) and the keyholder (free cyclops). Lucretia takes the crystal mine. Irbet clears and takes the mercury mine with one Fury. There were 52 upgraded swordsmen guarding it. The swordsmen had morale fail 5 times.
Day 8. The main hero takes the artifact (gnome boots), clears the zombies. Lucretia visits the keyholder's tent. Building the market.
And this is far from the best option.
Since I'm writing from memory, there may be some shifts in the days. But the overall result is correct
Порою люди не со зла Творят настолько черные дела, Что до таких блистательных идей Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей
Well... You can argue as much as you want, and everyone has their own playing style. Some players rampage in the first week, while others prefer to wait (not for long). And they hire their second hero when they deem it necessary. In my case, it's the second week.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.
God save us everyone Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
Personally, I hire a second hero by the first week, and then I really start to wreak havoc in the second week.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа... Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей, Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе... Агата Кристи Ты должен быть сильным, Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня, Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?! КИНО
Well... you can argue as much as you want, and everyone has their own methods of playing. Some rampage in the first week, while others prefer to wait (not for long). And they hire their second hero when they deem it necessary. In my case, it's the second week.
Please don't take this as a personal attack, but you've been in a situation where your slowness became one of the three reasons that led to your defeat. I'm referring to your match against Major Whirlwind. On that map, playing as the Elves, you should have forced a major battle with him no later than week 7, and preferably earlier.
And on the Dragon Pass map, you need to finish the game by week 3.
Порою люди не со зла Творят настолько черные дела, Что до таких блистательных идей Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей
The problem with that map is that you need to defeat strong neutral creatures on both sides of the dungeon exit. For example, a large number of paladins guard the passage. While it's not difficult to gather an army that can defeat these paladins in two months, they might manage to carry away a whole stack of creatures, such as riders. I don't like these losses, and there's no way to load a previous save, as you would when playing against the AI. So, I don't know what to do in this situation...
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.
God save us everyone Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
I'm tired of repeating myself. The Warlock's strength isn't in his army. His strength lies in the Warlock himself. And even a "large" number of Paladins can be easily defeated without an army.
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой, Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой, Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд, Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
No, the Warlock’s strength isn’t in the Warlock himself, and I’ve been convinced of this many times. I’m considering long-term gameplay. In battles against neutral creatures, the Warlock certainly plays an important role, but in the final stages… If the opponent doesn’t want the Warlock to decimate his army with spells, what will he do? That’s right – he’ll try to eliminate the army as quickly as possible. And in that case, the Warlock can’t change anything, even if he has Shock Earth or something else. And the Tribes of the East army doesn’t hold up well against attacks; it has no defense. That’s why I prefer, for example, to put an artifact on defense or attack instead of another artifact for spellcasting. And I’m a bit disappointed with Chaos; I’m currently leveling up Summoning.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.
God save us everyone Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
The problem with that map is that you need to defeat strong neutral creatures on both sides of the dungeon exit. For example, a large number of paladins guard the passage. While it's not difficult to gather an army that can defeat these paladins in two months, they might manage to carry away a stack of creatures, such as riders. I don't like such losses, and there's no way to load a previous save, as you would when playing against the computer. So, I don't know what to do in this situation...
What do you mean, 2 months? It's at most the 4th week, but preferably the 3rd.
Порою люди не со зла Творят настолько черные дела, Что до таких блистательных идей Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей
When playing as the Dungeon faction, you were supposed to force a general battle with him no later than week 7, and preferably earlier. And on the Dragon Pass map, you need to finish the game by week 3.
No later than the 7th week. And that's almost two months, as everyone knows.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.
God save us everyone Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
No later than the 7th week. And that's almost two months, as we know.
Firstly, we were talking about a major battle, not about clearing out neutral creatures near the entrance/exit of a Dungeon.
Secondly, "no later" doesn't exclude "earlier," quite the opposite.
Thirdly, if you had cleared out those neutral creatures in the 4th week, the final battle would have taken place around the 6th week – that's 7 Cyclops on the opponent's side, not 17 (and the other troops accordingly). You would have even exchanged Furies and Raiders for Cyclops and Centaurs before the main forces clashed. Then, one enhanced Shock attack on the Paladins, and the advantage would already be on your side. But you dragged it out to the 11th or 12th week, and didn't even use the right tactics, not to mention the mistake in choosing the Hero.
Порою люди не со зла Творят настолько черные дела, Что до таких блистательных идей Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей
Fireball
