Orcs – discussion about the race. — Stronghold

Vayshan

18 years ago

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Anyway, the hero doesn't make the first move that quickly. I don't understand what you mean by magic power under 30? Are you talking about witchcraft?! For a forest elf?! If so, no comment... Regarding level seven, try attacking cyclops with dragons under the effect of "Wrath"... The damage is unlikely to be impressive, but the counterattack could be painful.

In reply to Vayshan

Alan

18 years ago

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Vayshan;131727

It doesn't matter anyway. The hero doesn't make the first move that quickly. I don't understand what you mean by magic power of 30? Is it witchcraft?! For a Wood Elf?! If so, no comment... Regarding the seventh level, try attacking Cyclops with dragons under the effect of Fury... The damage is unlikely to be impressive, but the counterattack can be painful.

He doesn't need to be quick; he needs the druids to have time to move. Do you even know the abilities, or are you just talking here? However, the next phrase only confirms the latter. Of course, witchcraft!!! Have you read the abilities of the Alt-Druids? Apparently not, otherwise you would know that they can increase the hero's magic power.
And who is asking the Cyclops to attack? Hit the Monks or somewhere else, and besides, dragons are still expendable (they should attack everyone and die anyway), their main goal is to hit two squads, disrupt the Fury. And then, what kind of Fury is there at the beginning of the battle? 50-100? It's quite funny...
Indeed, your knowledge of heroes is simply beyond comment.

Crol

18 years ago

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2Alan - I agree... Vayshan is acting a bit strange... WE ARE ALWAYS FRIENDS ;)

In reply to Alan

Vayshan

18 years ago

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Alan;131779

He doesn't need to be fast; he needs the Druids to have time to move around. Do you even know the abilities, or are you just talking? Your next sentence only confirms the latter. Of course, it's magic! Have you read the abilities of the High Elf Druids? Apparently not, otherwise you would know that they can increase the hero's magic skill. And who's asking the Cyclops to attack? The Monk can strike at individual units or somewhere else, and besides, the Draconians are still just expendable units (they have to attack everyone and die), their main goal is to engage two units and reduce their morale. And what kind of morale are we talking about at the beginning of the battle? 50-100? That's ridiculous... Your knowledge of heroes is truly beyond comment.

I know about the abilities. The maximum amount of magic skill that Druids can give to a hero is limited to 18. The Ranger hero's own magic skill as a defense is somewhere around 4-5 at level 20. That's a total of 23. You still can't get 30. A lot also depends on the artifacts, but you can only get 30 by equipping artifacts that increase magic skill. But does an Elf need that? In this way, you can also give a Dark Knight a defense of 20-25, which is completely uncharacteristic for him. In my opinion, it's better to develop racial directions, i.e., magic for the Elf and defense for the Knight. As for morale, the Orcs have an ability that gives them 50 to 100 morale points at the beginning of the battle, plus a building in the city gives them another 50. So, on average, you get about 130. The hero can also cast some kind of spell, and there you have it, the first level of morale. And that's no longer funny (and 100 points also provide good protection). P.S. I've been playing Heroes since around July 2006. Not since the very release, but long enough. So, at the very least, I'm not a noob.

Crol

18 years ago

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no one is saying you're a noob...

In reply to Vayshan

Alan

18 years ago

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Vayshan;131877

I know about the abilities. The maximum number of magic units that druids can give to a hero is limited to 18. A ranger hero's own magic as a defense, for example, is around 4-5 at level 20. This totals 23. You still can't get 30. A lot also depends on artifacts; only by equipping artifacts that increase magic can you get 30. But is this necessary for a Wood Elf? In this way, you can also give a Warlock a defense of 20-25, which is completely uncharacteristic for him. In my opinion, it is better to develop racial directions, i.e., magic for Wood Elves and defense for High Elves. As for rage, Orcs have an ability that gives them 50 to 100 rage points at the beginning of the battle, plus a building in the city gives another 50. So, on average, you get about 130. The hero can also cast some kind of warcry, and there you have the first level of rage. And that's no longer funny (and 100 points provide good defense).
P.S. I've been playing Heroes since around July 2006. Not since the very release, but long enough. So, I'm definitely not a noob.

Read my post carefully: "with magic power around 30," then it's much easier to find a ranger some magic item with +2-3, than to look for a Warlock with +20-25 (if it's even possible), so don't exaggerate. And what does it mean "it's better to develop racial directions"? That's what everyone expects, but you should surprise your opponents – that's already 60-70% of success (for example, Goblin Trappers or Orcish Shamans in the army are a good way to create an effective build). Yes, they have initial rage (and I also mentioned this), but there will be no warcry – the ranger's troops will attack earlier, and the main damage is dealt precisely by the first attacks (well, more precisely, the second and subsequent ones).

P.S. You can grind a campaign on Recruit difficulty for 5 or 10 years. But an account on the "Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Restoration of Erathia" with stats of 500 to 100 is already an indicator. Based on your posts, I can judge the average level of play (don't be offended if I'm wrong).

P.S.S. Orcs are not overpowered, and they are just as vulnerable against Elves as they are against everyone else. You need to think with your head and not get stuck in one build. Sometimes the most unexpected and seemingly absurd builds lead to amazing results. Don't be afraid to experiment and treat WORKING non-standard builds normally. Good luck in the game.

Vayshan

18 years ago

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I leveled up the Warlock's defense to over 20. And that was on Veteran difficulty; I only played the original Heroes on Recruit, and that was a long time ago. When I mentioned racial directions, I wasn't referring to abilities or schools of magic, but to the hero's stats. This was stated in my previous post. And what's the point if, for example, a Warlock "surprises" the enemy with a large amount of knowledge? If you could then equip artifacts that increase magic power? And that would be (in my opinion) more useful. But schools of magic, skills – that's where it makes sense to come up with something new instead of leveling up the hero in a template way. I never got around to playing Heroes of Might and Magic V. In the original Heroes, I played through the campaign, played in single-player, and didn't really think about online play because Heroes V was the first Heroes game I played. Hammers of Fate wasn't my thing, and the Lords of the Realm faction glitches terribly in my online game. And that's with a licensed copy and a broadband internet connection. And I didn't say that Orcs are overpowered. Balance is still important. It's just that someone wrote earlier that "only the Elves can stand up to the Orcs; the other races can't withstand such pressure." That's what bothered me, and I asked for an explanation of what the Elves have against the Orcs that other races don't (in the sense of not having an equivalent to that "something" that the Elves have).

In reply to Vayshan

Crol

18 years ago

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Vayshan;132111

I wasn't saying that Orcs are overpowered. Balance is still important. Someone previously wrote that "only High Elves can stand against Orcs, the other races can't withstand such pressure." That's what bothered me, and I asked them to explain what High Elves have against the Orcs that other races don't (meaning, what equivalent they have to this "something" that High Elves possess).

Archers, Ents, Unicorns, Druids, and sworn enemies:rolleyes:

Vayshan

18 years ago

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Okay. Then the Dark Elves have great Chaos/Summoning magic, elemental chains, two invisible creatures, hydras, riders that ignore defense, furies, some of the best seventh-level creatures... crol, read the messages more carefully. I indicated everything in the last set of parentheses.

In reply to Vayshan

Crol

18 years ago

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Vayshan;132159

Okay. Then, the Dark Elves have awesome Chaos/Summoning magic, elemental chains, two invisible creatures, hydras, riders that ignore defense, furies, some of the best seventh-level creatures... crol, read the messages more carefully. I indicated everything in the last parentheses.

Okay. Then, the High Elves have thick Ent tanks, nymphs that heal through symbiosis, overpowered archers that ignore defense and knock back, unicorns with blinding, strong and tough dragons with prismatic breath, agile dancers, and most importantly: UPGRADE CHAOS! CREATE A DRUID CHANNEL! AND FINALLY, A MAGIC ARROW (WITH TARGETED CHAOS MAGIC) ON ENCHANTED ENEMIES!
Isn't that painful? :rolleyes:

Vayshan

18 years ago

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First of all: these units can only be healed from Nymphs (and Nymphs can only heal them) once per battle. Secondly: Archers don't ignore defense entirely, but by 50%. Thirdly: Light Elf Dragons aren't that strong or tough when compared to Dark Elf Dragons. Fourthly: what if an Orc buffs Anti-Chaos to protect their troops? Dark Elves, at least, have Arcane Wave, so weakening Chaos will affect them less than Light Elves. And fifthly: you can say all of this about any faction because everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and all of this together is called balance. The idea of all my recent posts isn't to show how weak Wood Elves are against Orcs, but that not only Wood Elves have something to counter Orcs.

2DDarkKnight

18 years ago

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Damn, my skills are planned in such a way that there's no room for anti-magic. That's why I take goblin shamans + the "Magic Power" skill – there's no need for magic reduction. And if a necromancer is against me, I rush to the nearest artifact shop and buy items from the dwarf set, and the necromancer is done for!

Vayshan

18 years ago

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You're making it seem too easy. As far as I know, Goblin Shamans don't 100% block enemy spells, but rather with a certain probability. The "Magic Resistance" skill only makes sense if the Barbarian has decent magic skills of his own, which is unlikely unless you equip him with specific artifacts, but doing so just for the sake of a skill doesn't seem very reasonable (in my opinion). And regarding the artifact shop, where's the guarantee that it will even have artifacts from the Dwarf set? The probability is very low.

Alan

18 years ago

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Can you explain what the High Elves have that they can use against the Orcs?

I didn't say that Orcs are overpowered. Balance is still important. Someone previously wrote that "only High Elves can stand against the Orcs, the other races can't withstand such pressure." This bothered me, and I asked for an explanation of what the High Elves have against the Orcish horde that other races don't (meaning, what equivalent advantage do the High Elves have).

To Vayshan. Hmm, I apologize, I couldn't have predicted such an interpretation of your phrase. For me, it was a straightforward question about the Elves, not a comparison with other races.
When I talk about upgrades, I naturally mean not the main skills, but the abilities. But it is precisely through abilities and monsters that the Sylvan have the opportunity to significantly increase their base attribute, which other races don't have. And it's not very wise to miss such an opportunity, so you can tailor the upgrades to this, even if the initial skills don't quite match, but you can change everything in battle.
By the way, no single arcane spell will deal as much damage as four arrows fired at cursed enemies with an enchanted Meteor Shower. And considering that enchanting no longer reduces initiative, you can adjust to the desired spell every turn.

Vayshan

18 years ago

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Alan: I didn't understand the phrase "increase the base attribute." What meaning does the word "attribute" have here? As for the ballista, it's not that easy to get four arrows for it. You also need to find a special artifact. And, as I remember, the chance of combat machines appearing for the Sylvan faction is quite low; they might not appear at all. Plus, it seems that a skill from the attack line is required for a triple shot, and the chance of getting attack skills isn't very high either (although I might be wrong; I mainly play as the Sylvan, and I never develop combat machines for them). But if a Sylvan manages to develop all of this, then the Orc will certainly have a hard time because the Barbarian has practically nothing to destroy the ballista with, but this will only happen in a long game. And by the way, how much mana does a triple shot cost? In general, judging by your messages, it seems that only the Sylvan faction is effective against the Orcs, and this contradicts the concept of balance, which, however small, still exists.

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