Inter-clan (ONLINE) tournament for Heroes 3. Auto-translated

magic

yes... then it's better to change not the castle itself, but the skill itself =) even for Necropolis heroes - I suggest replacing it with... I don't know (it can be up to the developer... i.e., for example, wisdom or magic or 2-3 other skills - to choose from - except for magic, leadership, luck....)

mm.... adapting is certainly good... but most likely (80%) the difficulty will be 200% like in most online tournaments!!!!

(optional... e.g., wisdom or magic)

Don't you think that wisdom and magic are essential skills for Necromancers? IMHO, it's a complete waste.

Hmm... adapting is certainly good... but most likely (80%), the difficulty will be 200% like in most online tournaments!

Is that just because you decided so? Maybe we should conduct a poll? I guarantee that if not the majority, at least about half will vote for 160% difficulty. Maybe we should decide this issue democratically, rather than each person deciding for themselves?

Democracy! Democracy! Democracy!!! :smile12: :smile13:

Is that because you decided so? Maybe we should hold some kind of vote instead.

...mmm, no... but there will be a vote - Tanya promised, so we just have to wait. And about Necropolis, I'll say it again - on Large or Extra Large maps, they are unbeatable... with less than 1000 skeletons... in the early stages... that's how it is, so either Castle or skill!!!!

Rep, as I understand it again, invisible didn't deny the replacement of magic itself; he just expressed his opinion that wisdom and magic are far from being the "best" in the game. For example, they cannot be compared to diplomacy, and if diplomacy is disabled, then to logistics and pathfinding, because wisdom at the expert level is needed for quick completion, to put it mildly - "not very much." But the fact that Necropolis heroes have this damn magic skill means that something needs to be done... either ban the secondary skill or exclude Necropolis heroes...

Please excuse me, but playing with XL or L size maps with a Dungeon as one of the four starting factions seems a bit excessive, in my opinion. M size with a Dungeon or L size without a Dungeon would be much better. With these sizes, the obvious advantage of the Necropolis is eliminated, and the importance of logistics is reduced, which balances all the factions. Of course, I won't argue against 160% difficulty, but I definitely vote for 200%. P.S. And don't even think about excluding the Necropolis or necromancy, or it will be like turning chess into checkers. Banning the Conflux is one thing – it's an additional faction that appeared (for fans) – but the Necropolis is a CLASSIC faction with a huge history (Heroes 2, Heroes 3, Heroes 4, Heroes 5).

Rep, as I understand it again, didn't deny the replacement of magic altogether; he just expressed his opinion that wisdom and magic are far from being the "best" in the game.

That's exactly what I meant. Magic can be replaced, for example, with defense or attack.

I'll say it again about Necropolis – on Large or XL maps, they are unbeatable...

You can definitely fight Necropolis by banning Isra, Vidomina, and the Necromancy enhancement!!! Moreover, even if the map is XL, it will be conditionally divided into 4 parts, and a meeting is possible as early as week 3. Use a rush strategy in week 3, and Necropolis will be defeated without a chance. This is another argument for playing on 160% difficulty, which reduces the game time and prevents Necropolis from amassing skeletons. If the map is random, gather resources and raid neutral creatures, and you'll also get a free army. I am definitely "for" banning Isra and Vidomina. I recently played against Necropolis three times and won twice without any problems. But once, I hesitated for just a week, got greedy for the abundance of neutral creatures, and by the end of week 4, Vidomina arrived with a huge army of 40 wyverns, a bunch of angels, and other creatures, and Vidomina already had 1500 skeletons and a teleport with expert water :smile35:. And the skeletons killed almost everyone :( Vidomina and Isra are a cheat, but you can fight against the rest quite successfully by banning the enhancement. And if the castles are chosen randomly, no one will stop you from banning it first. In general, I am against banning magic as a skill and against banning Necropolis. Let's ban all the castles: Dungeon with its summoning portal, which can be used to amass a lot of dragons or other seventh-level creatures, because having 2 dragons on the first day is also an undeniable advantage, and on day 121, you can kill everyone, having 4 dragons and a bunch of other creatures. Swamp with the invincible Tazar, Stronghold with the cheating Crag Hack and the mighty Tiraxtor. Oh, and let's also ban Inferno. Because, with a normal setup, having money and a couple of secondary castles, you can create a couple of hundred demons in a month. So, who should you be afraid of: Marius with 200 demons or Vidomina with 1500 skeletons? You just need to know how to play against each castle! Of course, you can't do much in two minutes, but still. M with a basement for four players is IMHO too small. The castles will be located at a distance of three days' travel from each other. XL is too much, but L+U seems just right.

M with a basement for four players is, in my opinion, very small. Castles will be located three days' travel distance from each other. XL is a bit too much, but L+U seems just right.

By the way, here's a small statistic that shows that an XL-sized map is smaller than an L map with a basement, equivalent to two S-sized maps or one S map with a basement...
Let's take the smallest map, S, as our unit of measurement.
S = 1
S+basement = 2
M = 4
M+basement = 8
L = 9
L+basement = 18
XL = 16
XL+basement = 32
So, if XL is considered too large, then L with a basement is even larger!!!
Here's a comparative example:
1. The maps we played in the "Seasons" tournament were almost all M without basements, and those that did have basements didn't really have much of a basement. I wouldn't say there was a lot of room to maneuver, but it wasn't too cramped either... but the maps were mainly intended for 2 players.
2. According to statistics, duels lasted from 3 weeks to 2 and a half months, which is quite normal.
We will have 4 people, so it makes sense to increase the map size by 2 times, and the trend should at least remain the same, or it may even change towards a longer duration.
3. If, when increasing the number of players by 2 times, the map size is increased by 4-4.5 times, then the game duration will also increase by "n" times, where it is more logical that "n" = 2... Well, and who would want to play for 1.5-4 months when 1 month of the game takes about 4 hours of real time!

You can definitely fight against Necropolis by banning Isra, Vidomina, and the Necromancy enhancer!!!

Of course, you can! Who's arguing?
But if you ban the enhancer (and consequently, the vampire upgrade),
what will be left of Necropolis?
The weakest army? (or almost the weakest) without vampires, skeletons, etc.?
Then, of course, it's just a rush, and it's as if Necropolis never existed.
They shouldn't be removed; I agree with you on that, but your methods of "balancing" the forces seem barbaric to me.
And besides, there will be two of you! And I'm sure that together you can easily handle Necropolis, just like any other castle. That's what this championship is for – to showcase teamwork.
Sincerely...

What’s going on? I believe that all factions have their own advantages and disadvantages, so there’s no need to badmouth the Necropolis – vampires and skeletons are their main strength. And besides, you can kill 10,000 skeletons; the main thing is skill and the desire to win!

L = 9
L+basement = 18
XL = 16
XL+basement = 32[/B]
So, if XL is considered a bit too much, then L with a basement is even more!!!

Well, XL is a bit much, but not more than L + basement; there was no talk about XL with a basement...

Well, XL is a bit too much, but not more than L + basement; we weren't talking about XL with a basement...

I'm telling you it's bigger... take a calculator and figure it out yourself...
Map size L: 108x108
Map size XL: 144x144
If the map has a basement, multiply the result by 2 ;)
P.S. My calculator gave me
108x108x2=23328
144x144=20736

Added 2 minutes later
XL with a basement - no one is saying...
XL without a basement - they said it's too much
And L with a basement is bigger than XL without a basement - therefore, it's even more too much!

By the way, here's a small statistic that shows that an XL map is smaller than an L map with a dungeon, which is the size of two S maps or one S map with a dungeon...

I just expressed myself incorrectly, or rather, I didn't say everything I was thinking. I compared all sizes with a dungeon (except XL). I'm not reasoning based on numbers (although not without them), but based on the experience of playing (not just mine) on L+U on random maps. Playing in pairs on L+U with 160% usually lasts from 3 to 6 weeks of game time (rarely longer). I think that's not much. If 4 people play, I don't think the game time will increase much. Although this will affect development, because now the resources will be conditionally divided by 4. You can just test it: generate an M map for four players and try playing with the computer. And you'll understand how cramped it will be. I guarantee that encounters will happen as early as the first week. IMHO, this is not interesting.
And 1.5-4 months is an exaggeration. At most 2, and even then, the second month will most likely already be with two of the survivors.

and if you prohibit the enhancer (and, accordingly, the vampire upgrade)

By suggesting to prohibit the necromancy enhancer, I mean playing on a random map where there is a lot of small, diverse guard, that is, future skeletons. Yes, it's sad without the vampires, but it's really possible to play against the Necromancer.

what will be left of the Necropolis?

Just some miserable 1000+ skeletons, which, under the leadership of Galtran, sweep away everything in their path and without vampires. I suggested this option so as not to remove the necromancy skill and allow them to use it.
Yes, everything I wrote above implies playing on a random map (let's say on a manually edited map).

and in general, there will be two of you! and I'm sure that together you can easily handle the Necropolis, as well as any other castle!

well, the Necromancer won't be alone either. ;) He can also have an ally pass a couple of hundred low-level units for processing into skeletons. By the way, can you transfer troops to each other as allies?
I suggest testing a cooperative game with four players on different map sizes before the tournament, in order to finally come to some conclusion and draw conclusions based on practice, and not theory. And let's not just argue :).

you can kill 10,000 skeletons, the main thing is skill and the desire to win!

You can, I agree, but if you let the Necromancer develop to 10,000 skeletons, it will already be very difficult.
You can't always get objectivity with a calculator. If you're going to calculate, then the area of the dungeon is much smaller than the area of the surface. And the underground is sometimes used as a passage to another respawn point. Of course, I will be against playing on a map like "Me and my shadow" with all my might, where we will play until 2009 with four players. And even if the map is large, it is unlikely that each player will explore every corner of the map. The main thing is the distance between the castles and the guards between them.

Only 1000+ skeletons, led by Galtran, sweeping everything in their path, and without vampires.

How are you going to gather 1000+ skeletons without Isra Vidomini and the amplifier??? Especially in a real game, as you mentioned, within 3 weeks (you said you were going for a rush in 3 weeks, if I'm not mistaken). Share your experience; I haven't achieved that much. I'm just curious...
Sincerely...

How are you going to amass 1000+ skeletons without Isra Vidomina and the enhancement spell??? Especially considering you mentioned playing in real-time and aiming for a rush strategy within 3 weeks (if I'm not mistaken). Share your experience; I haven't achieved that much. I'm just curious...
Best regards...

Firstly, a rush strategy within 3 weeks isn't always successful. Secondly, only Isra and Vidomina aren't the only ones with spellcasting abilities. Thirdly, there's the skeleton converter and secondary castles, which can be used to generate a large number of skeletons. Therefore, accumulating 1000 skeletons in 3-4 weeks is not a fantasy. :) But let's not go off-topic.