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Posts from The latest expansion pack has been released. Now, certain things are clear.
I repeat, "Shrek" has absolutely nothing to do with being a sequel to "Hedgehog in the Fog," no matter how much they might try to make it seem that way (just kidding).
By the way, "Hedgehog in the Fog" is the best animated film of all time and of all nations. This is not my opinion, but the opinion of film experts.
ДУРАКОВ ОЧЕНЬ МАЛО, НО ОНИ РАССТАВЛЕНЫ ТАК ГРАМОТНО, ЧТО ВСТРЕЧАЮТСЯ НА КАЖДОМ ШАГУ. Прошу прощения у Arandor-а. Я слишком резко отреагировал. Просто очень люблю спорт. Извини...[/SIZE]
By the way, "Hedgehog in the Fog" is the best cartoon of all time and peoples. This is not my opinion, but that of film experts.
This is a generally accepted fact, and of course, no one argues with it, which is why I made that joke. It's just that the issue isn't that. Andrey;126662
You probably think we're all idiots?
No one thinks anyone is an idiot. There were indeed many discussions about the sea race. martians wrote about several problems that were discussed, and solutions to some of them (almost all) were found, but some remained unresolved. Although some fans are sure that all of them can be solved, others made harsh attacks and categorical remarks. As a result, we don't see a sea race, but I'm afraid this isn't a discussion for this thread, and there's no point in starting the argument over again (from the beginning), as hundreds of pages have already been written.
Once again, you are shifting the conversation to a different plane. We are not just discussing the graphics, but the trend in them. I'm sorry, but comparing completely different products, which, of course, belong to the same category (in the sense of animated films), is still incorrect. I repeat, "Shrek" has absolutely nothing to do with being a continuation of "Hedgehog in the Fog," no matter how much they might strive for it (just kidding). Therefore, discussing the trend is pointless (unless within the framework of animation achievements).
Listen, why should I constantly read between the lines in your messages, while you don't want to do it in mine? If you read my previous messages a little more carefully, I don't think there should be any complaints about shifting the conversation to a different plane. You are considering the development of graphics from the first to the fifth Heroes games, and I believe that the fifth Heroes game represents a fundamental shift in this regard, and it cannot be generalized with the previous three. It's like comparing the transition from "Hedgehog in the Fog" to "Shrek." "Shrek," as you rightly noted, has absolutely nothing to do with being a continuation of "Hedgehog," just as the third Heroes game is not a continuation of the fifth in terms of graphics (unless we take into account the remark that the third game, as I understand it, was also originally prepared as 3D). When "Shrek 2" comes out as a 3D Heroes of Might and Magic 6, then, in my opinion, we can talk about some kind of trend.
As for Olga's post, after reading it, it gives the impression that there are only infants and elderly people among the Heroes of Might and Magic players. The former are afraid of "breathing" creatures, while the latter cannot stand Pokémon. The middle age group, whose interests the developers should focus on, simply does not exist, and they have no common interests or views on the game. This is what the remark is about, that those who can download the game on their own will not run away from well-drawn 3D creatures.
Once again, I will give the essence of my thought. Heroes of Might and Magic 5 has definitely moved to a new level compared to Heroes of Might and Magic 3 (again, we are talking about graphics). In this regard, there cannot be any trend in the entire Heroes series. If in the sixth Heroes game, the demons have antennas or bows, then I will fully agree with you.
P.S. As for the formation of a trend through the add-ons for Heroes of Might and Magic 5, I disagree with you again. Add-ons do not form any trend, since they are released in full accordance with the graphic style of the base game.
Greengeez
18 years ago
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Regarding the discussion above.
The Heroes series has transitioned to 3D. This is why they look the way they do.
Nowadays, a lot of attention is paid to graphics in games. If before, a game captivated players with its deep internal content, now a lot of time and money is spent on external polish. Essentially, it's a transformation from an interactive book (with pictures) into an interactive movie. Warcraft 3 took this to a new level, which is why we now have these "in-engine" cutscenes, interludes, lots of video, and little text.
I think the fact that Heroes 5 looks graphically similar to many fantasy 3D games is a problem inherent to fantasy 3D games. Certain canons have developed, dictated by the evolution of graphics. And what you call "cartoonishness" is one of the necessary elements. Either you make a game with it, with a large dose of it, or you change something, experiment with something new. Ubi and Nival weren't going to experiment, and they couldn't, it's too risky. I hope they will do this in the sixth installment. After all, you want the game to have its own unique face.
For example, Disciples 3 now looks like a dark fantasy-medieval setting in its Asian representation. There is also "cartoonishness" there, but it's difficult to find an animated film for children that uses similar elements.
And in general, "cartoonishness" is what makes it unlike reality.
If we're not talking about pure 3D graphics, but about something closer to parts 1-3, then the graphics of the fourth installment were a shock to me at the time. Now I think it's excellent, striking, fantasy-like, and unlike anything else. It really was a breakthrough.
martians
18 years ago
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Andrey First, I'm not denying that a well-designed sea race could be created. I just expressed my opinion on why such a race would be inappropriate. Second, I'm not inclined to consider people I've never met as idiots. Third, personal attacks should be directed via private message. Fourth, regarding artifacts and the Grail, I simply didn't understand what you were saying about the generator. Yes, that was an oversight. And the infamous shackles and wings can be bought in the store!
Solo Well, there's no need to talk about babies and old people like that... Olga is speaking figuratively about scary dragons. Besides, who said that the average person likes Pokémon? Well, except for myself earlier in this thread, perhaps =)) And which part's design do you like the most?
Greengeez I agree. In fact, I wrote the same thing in my first post in this thread. It's just that the discussion has long since deviated from its original direction.
Listen, why should I constantly read between the lines in your messages, but you don't want to do it in mine?
No, no, there's no need to read between the lines in my messages; just read what is written, otherwise, we will go too far in searching for what each of us understood. Solo;126691
You are considering the development of graphics from the first to the fifth Heroes games, and I believe that in the 5th Heroes game, a fundamental transition was made in this regard, and it cannot be generalized with the previous three.
Again, there was a fundamental transition – no one denies it. No one is comparing sprite graphics vs. 3D graphics. The "cartoonishness" (its degree), which we are discussing, is outside of this battle. Therefore, the line (which is needed for the trend) definitely exists. Solo;126691
For example, when "Shrek 2" comes out as a 3D HoMM 6, then, in my opinion, we can talk about some kind of trend.
When HoMM VI comes out, we can discuss whether the fears about a positive trend have been confirmed or not. And we can calmly discuss the trend of the "degree of cartoonishness" of HoMM V in relation to its predecessors right now. Solo;126691
Once again, I will give the essence of my thought. HoMM 5 has definitely moved to a new level in relation to HoMM 3 (again, we are talking about graphics).
Your, as you put it, essence is clear, and there is no need to read between the lines. And again and again, I will repeat that there is no comparison of graphics as such; we were initially discussing (as far as I know) the degree of cartoonishness, and I am constantly trying to guide you in this direction, but for some reason, you cannot talk within the framework of games from the same series (even if they have a different principle of building graphics) about the degree of cartoonishness. Cartoonishness is not an indicator/characteristic of different engines; it is, let's say, a principle of rendering, which does not affect the principle of building models in any way. Solo;126691
P.S. Regarding the formation of a trend through the add-ons of HoMM5, I will disagree with you again. Add-ons do not form any trend, since they are released in full accordance with the graphic style of the base game.
Add-ons are designed to fix and add, I hope you won't argue with that. And if so, then they are also involved in forming trends. It's simple.
With the release of the latest expansion, it seems like it's the last one!:D I don't think so! If Nival and Ubisoft want to end the game like this, without the Swamp faction, they are wrong. If they don't create it, I will! Let's move on to the Third expansion, or rather, just a mod for the second expansion!:) Heroes 5 is the best of all the Heroes games, both in terms of graphics and storyline! I think this is undeniable!:)
Friends, I think it’s impossible to objectively compare the well-drawn Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and the 3D Heroes of Might and Magic 5. I like both. Overall, I definitely prefer playing the fifth one. Olga and LFB see a trend towards cartoonization when transitioning to 3D, but in my opinion, to talk about such a trend, you need to at least look at the 3D version of the third game in comparison to the fifth, or at the sprite-based fifth in comparison to the third. Since this is impossible for obvious reasons, the only option is the future 3D Heroes of Might and Magic 6.
Added 14 minutes later LFB;126727
When HoMM VI comes out, we can discuss whether the concerns about the positive trend have been confirmed or not. And we can calmly discuss the trend of the “degree of cartoonishness” of HoMM V relative to its predecessors right now.
And you’re saying the same thing again. I just don’t see the trend you’re talking about. Let’s say it like this – I can’t see this trend. It doesn’t seem to me that the units in HoMM 5 are more cartoonish than the units in HoMM 3. LFB;126727
Add-ons are designed to fix and add, I hope you won’t argue with that. And if so, then they also contribute to shaping trends. It’s simple.
Fix and add, but not change. An add-on with completely redesigned units for all factions will not be just an add-on. It will be a new part.
Fix and add, but don't change. An add-on with completely reworked units of all factions will not be one. It will be a new part.
Firstly, add-ons include modifiers, so they change things, among other things. Secondly, after the last add-on, due to the number of additions and changes, some consider the resulting product to be HoMM 5.5 (you can read about it on official websites) – isn't that another part? Thirdly, adding a new faction and alternative units is a contribution that can change the degree of the trend (precisely the degree), even though it "fully complies with the graphical style of the base." Solo;126859
…and in my opinion, to talk about such a trend, you need to at least look at the 3D third game in comparison with the fifth, or at the sprite-based fifth in comparison with the third. Since this is impossible for obvious reasons, the only option is the future 3D HoMM6.
Firstly, for obvious reasons, this is possible. And even easily. Secondly, there is no difference in the differences in the principle of constructing graphics. You can discuss the cartoonishness in 2D, 3D, 4D, or… And you can discuss the trend (directed) when there is a group of interconnected elements located sequentially on a time interval, no matter how different they are (the main thing is that they claim to be part of one series). Do we have this? – we do! It's a different matter here:Solo;126859
Well, I don't see the trend you're talking about. Even if it's like this - I can't make out this trend. It doesn't seem to me that the units in HoMM 5 are more cartoonish than the units in HoMM 3.
You don't see it – I understand, there are no problems with this, because everyone sees things differently. I believe that the degree of cartoonishness has increased, you – don't. Olga gave you several examples, you either agree with them or not. But to say that it is impossible to observe a trend at all – you are wrong. We can argue about whether "The Hedgehog in the Fog" is the best cartoon of all time or not. I agree with this statement more than not, but there are people who claim that this cartoon is absolutely absurd, and not only does it not claim to be something high and bright, but it is generally complete nonsense and should not be shown to children (even to that extent). Everyone is different, and everyone has different views.
I think that you and I will agree that HoMM V is a great game. We still won't argue about anything, in the sense that we won't convince each other. I shake your hand as a good opponent; after all, we didn't descend to personal attacks. You are right, and I am right, and that's it. 3DogMZA;126730
If Nival and Ubisoft want to end the game like this, without the Swamp faction, they are wrong.
Yes, it's a good faction. It's a pity that it has already been slightly incorporated into the 5th game.
Werevolka
18 years ago
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Message from Solo: Regarding Olga's post, after reading it, one gets the impression that among Heroes of Might and Magic players, there are only infants and people of pre-retirement age. The former are afraid of "breathing" creatures, while the latter cannot stand "Pokemon-like" creatures. The middle age group, whose interests the developers should focus on, with common interests and views on the game, is simply absent.
That's exactly what I'm saying! The game developers are making a gesture towards an audience that finds it difficult to understand the meaning of a strategy game, struggling to keep so much information about building development, armies, and creatures in mind, and they are trying to attract them with childishly appealing graphics. (By the way, why do you assume that the term "cartoonishness" has anything to do with animated films in general?). The middle group, which the developers of such a game should be targeting, as you rightly pointed out, is not in their plans. (I don't know what to do about people of pre-retirement age...)
In general, it was nice to participate in this discussion, express my opinion, and listen to the opinions of others. I just have a distinct feeling of déjà vu lately...
Armageddon's Blade couldn't destroy the world. In The Restoration of Erathia, the war was for one kingdom. Sandro, in The Shadow of Death, found artifacts at the very beginning of the game and then tried to become the ruler of the continent through intrigues and armies. Again, just one continent.
Yes, you are right, I wasn't entirely accurate, but such minor deviations from the standard plots don't make the game's plot original, and your post, frankly, doesn't seem very convincing. Sincerely.
Step aside from the way of a better man than you So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you Its the servants devotion for the decay Stand up
You are right, I wasn't entirely accurate, but such insignificant deviations from typical plots don't make the game's plot original, and your post, frankly, doesn't seem very convincing. Sincerely.
Insignificant? In The Restoration of Erathia, there was a war for one kingdom. At the same time, there were three continents and many islands in that world. And it was just one kingdom. There weren't many such plots back then. In Armageddon's Blade, it was a struggle for the survival of demons. Not even their conquest of anything. In The Shadow of Death, it was border wars and intrigues. Where do you see insignificant deviations? In the pathetic Asylum, there aren't even insignificant deviations from typical plots.
eXeCuToR
18 years ago
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One kingdom? Fine – consider the first two parts of Allods. Here’s an analogy. A struggle for survival among demons? Meaning, with the subsequent killing of everyone else? It’s all clear… I won’t even mention the wars and intrigues – there are plenty of them in many games.
Step aside from the way of a better man than you So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you Its the servants devotion for the decay Stand up
The atmosphere... it's like a fairy tale, everything is dead, you see... How long will the purists keep whining about the third game? When will we finally enjoy playing the seventh installment, maybe around 2012? Because someone will still be moaning: "Ah, but in the third game..." What atmosphere was there? A wild, unprecedented collection of European legends, Greek myths, and Eastern fairy tales? I've played "The Restoration of Erathia" and "Armageddon's Blade" and the thriller "The Shadow of Death" from cover to cover – it was quite engaging, especially back then – many years ago, but the atmosphere... Is it because all the dragons in those games were sitting around like puppies waiting for a bone? Is that the kind of atmosphere we need? At least Cunningham didn't give them too much to say... Did the pointy-eared elves bother anyone? Well, yes – those guys in green jester-like clothes, living in huts like "golden Ukraine" with thatched roofs ("estates" in the localization: D) – those were the FIRSTBORN. How can the fifth game with its archers even compare? The atmosphere was great... Especially when you were torturing the editor to introduce at least SOME differences between 16 (!!!!!) types of heroes. Oh, I remembered – in those games, warriors had to buy a spellbook for 500 coins. Brilliant. You accuse Nival of commercialization and Warcraft-ization? But Cunningham parasitically and timidly attached the series' name to the then-popular brand Might and Magic. A cheap marketing trick, and now, suddenly, Nival has gone mainstream. Their graphics are now "cartoonish"... Well, of course – it's a different story with the great third game – the designers showed the whole world... Especially the snakes, the goblins with Kipolov-style hairstyles, and the entire great collection of humanoid elementals. The atmosphere... :D :D :D
The atmosphere... it's like a fairy tale, everything is dead, you see... How long will the purists keep whining about the third game? When will we finally enjoy playing the seventh installment, perhaps around 2012? Because someone will still be moaning: "Oh, but in the third game..." What atmosphere was there? A wild, unprecedented collection of European legends, Greek myths, and Eastern fairy tales? I've played "the restoration of poor Erathia," "Armageddon's Blade," and the thriller "The Shadow of Death" – it was quite engaging, especially back then, many years ago, but the atmosphere... Is it because all the dragons sit around like puppies waiting for a bone? Is that the kind of atmosphere we need? At least Cunningham didn't give them too much to say... Do the pointy-eared elves bother anyone? Well, yes – those guys in green jester-like clothes, living in huts like "golden Ukraine" with thatched roofs ("estates" in the localization:D) – those were the FIRSTBORN. How can the fifth game, with its archer masters, compare? The atmosphere was great... Especially when you torment the editor to introduce at least SOME differences between 16 (!!!!!) types of heroes. Oh, I remembered – in that game, warriors had to buy a spellbook for 500 coins. Brilliant. You accuse Nival of commercialization and Warcraft-ization? But Cunningham parasitically and timidly attached the series' name to the then-popular brand, Might and Magic. A cheap marketing trick, and now Nival is supposedly becoming too mainstream. Their graphics are now "cartoonish"... Well, of course – it's different from the great third game, where the designers showed the whole world... Especially the snakes, the goblins with Kipolov-style hairstyles, and the entire great collection of humanoid elementals. The atmosphere... :D :D :D
All the talk that the fifth game lacks atmosphere, that the game has declined, that things were better before – it's NONSENSE! Heroes 5 is the best in the series:smile03:
Хакер - не преступник.:smile28: Взлом - для искусства. Смысл - в свободе.
