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Posts from AltNCF - Alternative NCF

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In reply to Ment
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6 years ago
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Ment
Maybe the goal shouldn't be to cram several hundred (800 or so?) creatures into the game?
Just like HotA wasn't intended to completely replace WOG, but rather to do it more qualitatively, meaning no one said, "Here, we'll have the same number of towns, creatures, and an eighth level, just like in WOG, but better," but people simply created a global mod with new content, as they envision it. The same applies here – if it's just 50 creatures, but they're cool, they can definitely compete with eight hundred miscellaneous NCF creatures, in my opinion. There's no point in immediately aiming for a huge and unnecessary amount and then getting frustrated because of the difficulty of the task.
I didn't consider this NCF to be a serious project. For me, it's just preparation for more complex things that are planned for the future. I didn't plan to spend more than a month on it, but there are such difficulties with importing.
In reply to zahar0z
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6 years ago
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Regarding modeling, I can only give this advice: start with something smaller. A sword/helmet, go through the entire process. High-poly to low-poly, texturing, skinning. This is something you can actually do, unlike creating a "character in 3 hours." It will take you from a week to a month to properly learn the process. Then it will make sense to talk about something else.

For now, you can only continue to complain about how inconvenient it is to import models into the game and brag about how "I can do everything myself in three hours"))

Added after 58 seconds
Phoenix 2100
For me, this is just preparation for more complex things that are planned for the future.
Specifically? What kind of things?

Added after 3 minutes
P.S. Perhaps it would have been worth considering creating 800 creatures as a more serious task. Will you learn the pattern of behavior? 800 creatures in a month, a character model in 3 hours – it's all from the same series.

Is there any suspicion that if you couldn't handle this, simple in your opinion, task, then you will definitely not be able to handle the "more complex" ones that you "plan for the future"?

Maybe it still makes sense to start with something simpler? With something that is actually possible to do.
In reply to zahar0z
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6 years ago
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You probably misunderstood me. By "model," I meant a figure without textures or a skeleton. If I were talking about those things, I would have said "a model with textures, animations, and a skeleton." Of course, it would take longer with a skeleton – you'd have to adjust the weight for each bone.
I haven't fully explored applying materials and textures yet, but I've been creating simple figures suitable for 3D printing for over a year now.
I was surprised by the reaction – "you can't make a model in 3 or 6 hours." How is that possible? Literally, I sculpt a figure using Z-spheres, smooth it out, apply a mask where the clothing is, add a T-shirt and shorts, or whatever it should be, then draw the facial features (this takes a while, but no more than 20-30 minutes for the slowest ones), and add small details. If you already know where all the tools are, you won't spend 10-20 minutes looking for them, and you'll do everything quickly.

Added 3 minutes later
zahar0z
Specifically?)) what kind of things are you talking about?
A full-fledged game. You can modify the heroes as much as you want, but they won't become perfect. But if you incorporate all the necessary gameplay elements into the code from the beginning, then no mods will be needed. Of course, this project, due to its length, will probably kill me, but it's worth a try.
In reply to Феникс 2100-й
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6 years ago
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Okay. It's not possible to create a game-ready model in 3 hours.
(the exception would be something in the style of Minecraft).

Added after 38 seconds
And even creating a good sculpt of an entire character will take longer than 3 hours. Although, it depends on what you mean by "good" and how skilled you are at using ZBrush.
I suppose that some rare geniuses might be able to complete this task in 3 hours, but I'm certain that neither you nor I are among them.
In reply to zahar0z
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6 years ago
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zahar0z
I suppose that a few exceptional players might be able to complete this task in 3 hours, but I'm 100% sure that neither you nor I are among them.
Why? Completing it relatively quickly isn't just for exceptional players; it's a normal occurrence for those who know how to use the program. If you don't get distracted, you can do it.
In reply to Феникс 2100-й
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6 years ago
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Phoenix 2100

It's a full-fledged game. You can modify the heroes endlessly, but they won't become perfect. And if you embed all the necessary gameplay elements in the code from the beginning, then no mods will be needed. True, this project, due to its duration, will most likely drive me to an early grave, but it's worth a try.
It's always worth a try. But you shouldn't repeat the same mistakes. You won't create 800 creatures in a month, you won't create a model suitable for a game in 3 hours, and you won't create a game of the format and size of Heroes 5 alone in 3 years. It may be sad, but it's a fact. If you want to go in this direction, you need to adjust your approach.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z06QR-tz1_o&list=PLhyKYa0YJ_5C6QC36h5eApOyXtx98ehGi&index=2&t=0s
I recommend watching this video on the topic. And it's even better to watch their entire series about creating the first game. There are 6 videos, I think.

Added 1 minute ago
Phoenix 2100
Why? Doing it relatively quickly is not the prerogative of unique individuals; it's a normal phenomenon for those who know how to use the program. If you don't get distracted, it will work out.

Because, at a minimum:
zahar0z
Oh, damn. You don't understand that you can't just take a model from ZBrush and use it in a game?

Look. ZBrush, like any 3D sculpting program, operates with a very large number of polygons with a very dense mesh. For example, when I sculpted a glove, I had about 4-5 million polygons. This is necessary for sculpting, but the game (especially Heroes) will go crazy if you feed it that. There's a good chance that Max will also go crazy. Therefore, the process of retopology is needed. What is it? Retopology is changing the mesh, reducing the number of polygons, and then projecting the high-polygon sculpt onto this new mesh. This creates a normal map. Based on it, programs like Substance Painter draw textures, but there's still a lot of manual work involved.
In reply to zahar0z
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6 years ago
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Thanks for the video, it will be interesting to watch.
I understand you. No one can create a model in 3 hours. And no one can create it in 30 hours either. That's clear. People, before releasing a game with thousands of 3D models, spend several decades creating them. For example, if TES III: Morrowind was released in 2002, the developers started creating models for it somewhere in the 70s. Of course, they didn't know then that they would have a game called Morrowind, but they were creating them just in case. And for Heroes 7, they started creating them after the 80s, because they knew what they were working for.
In reply to Феникс 2100-й
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6 years ago
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Morrowind and Heroes 5 were developed by teams much larger than 1-5 people. At the time of Heroes 5's creation, Nival had several hundred employees, as far as I know. The creation of resources, such as models, was often outsourced. That is, you need to add even more people to the staff. Now, a logical problem. One 3D modeler creates, say, one model per month. How many models will 30 people create in a month?
In reply to zahar0z
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6 years ago
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Besides the models, a lot of other things need to be done for the game. It's clear that more than one person is working on this.

Added 2 minutes later
zahar0z
You can't create a model suitable for a game in 3 hours, and you can't create a game of the format and size of Heroes 5 alone in 3 years.
I didn't limit myself to three years. I think I'll live for another ten years, maybe fifteen. There's a chance. As for NCF, I didn't plan to spend too much time on it – it's just a bit of fun, nothing more.
In reply to Феникс 2100-й
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6 years ago
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I was just responding to your sarcasm about "if it takes so long, why don't they do it for 20 years?"
The answer was "because teams of several dozen people are working on some of the models in the project."

Added 6 minutes later
Phoenix 2100

I didn't limit myself to three years. I think I'll live another ten years, maybe fifteen. There's a chance.

I think you don't realize what it's like, even from a purely moral point of view, to work on a project in your free time for 10-15 years.
And even if there's a good chance that by that time the game creation process will become even simpler, it's still a rather complex idea to implement something on the scale of Heroes 5.

The point I'm trying to make is not to give up, but to start with something simpler.

But in any case, I wish you good luck with your endeavors.
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6 years ago
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@Phoenix 2100, in NCF there are quite a few creatures that differ only in texture... it would be good to individualize their appearance by replacing the standard models of weapons, heads, etc.
In reply to psatkha
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6 years ago
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psatkha
@Phoenix 2100, in NCF there are quite a few creatures that differ only in texture... it would be good to individualize their appearance by replacing the standard models of weapons, heads, etc.
Do you mean the original NCF? Honestly, I only glanced at the creatures there, and that was four years ago, so I just don't remember what they are, what they look like, etc.
We still need to think a bit more and look for solutions, because the primitive method of attaching model pieces to bones, moving them in space, etc., is a last resort, if there's really nothing else to do.
In reply to Феникс 2100-й
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6 years ago
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Phoenix 2100
Do you mean the original NCF? Honestly, I only skimmed through the creatures there, and that was four years ago, so I just don't remember what they are, what they look like, etc.
I still need to think a bit more and look for solutions, because a primitive way of attaching model pieces to bones, moving them in space, etc., is a last resort, if there's really nothing else to do.

Primitive or not, but until you show your perfect models... not at all!

And what do you mean by original NCF?!
In reply to psatkha
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6 years ago
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The one that exists at the moment.
In reply to Феникс 2100-й
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6 years ago
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Phoenix 2100
The one that exists at the moment.

Let me explain in simple terms… NCF is like honeycombs; each honeycomb has its own “bee,” and all the “bees” are mostly independent, but some have a familial connection in the form of an upgrade and an alt-upgrade!

Balancing wasn’t done for the overwhelming majority of “bees” (including myself), but at my request, two very respected comrades: Nargott (a GURU in the mechanics of this game) and StetNoel (my co-author on various MODs for this and other games, as well as the best friend when it comes to numismatic, old-hardware & software issues) created a special utility NOIADE (and I made a detailed manual with pictures for it)!

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