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Posts from The 8th stage of the annual John Van Caneghem Tournament (2007).

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In reply to vbn
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vbn;115043
Now you have every chance to become a leader in primary skills! :D
Honestly, I don't think anyone will use the secondary criterion to determine the ranking in the tournament table. It's unlikely that there will be any matches in the days participants complete the tournament – the possible range of completion times seems large enough to me...

I just want to persuade the community to adopt a final and unchangeable interpretation of the rules for conducting tournaments – it's not very difficult, and at some point, we need to put an end to this issue. Otherwise, the problem of changing the rules during the tournament will be eternal – we've been observing it for a year now...
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In reply to AmberSoler
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I've sent the save file; please confirm receipt.
AmberSoler;115046
To be honest, I don't think anyone will use a secondary criterion to determine placement in the tournament standings.
As for the prize-winning places, I'm confident about that :D, and I'm not worried at all.

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Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
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2AmberSoler
1. General rules for tournaments take precedence – I hope you won’t argue with that.
By registering for a tournament, a participant undertakes to comply with the rules stated in the first post of the topic and only those, and not the general rules.
3. If a specific tournament has restrictions on the general rules, this point must be clearly stated in the form of a prohibition. There also seems to be nothing contradictory to logic in my statement.
And this prohibition is stated, because from the point of view of mathematical logic, the phrase
it is also not allowed to buy heroes who died in battle
means a ban on buying ANY heroes who died.
Of course, we don’t always formulate our thoughts mathematically strictly. Therefore, it is necessary to clarify with the organizers whether you understood them correctly.
I don’t want to argue, but I just refer you again to my post #117, where it is indicated that there is no prohibition, because by default, buying enemy heroes is allowed.
The Law cannot have a "default"; it is clearly stated in the first post. And your disagreement cannot be an argument until the organizers confirm it.
This is about logic.
I hope you will not have difficulty understanding these four points and at least admit that my position is valid, because it is quite justified.
Your position is justified from the point of view of your life logic; from the point of view of mathematical logic, you are DEFINITELY WRONG, and the ban exists. How to resolve such a conflict of approaches is up to the organizers, although they should have provided better explanations.
It would be funny to see comments now about me violating the rules, referring to the "bold dot"...
You really violated the rules, and the "bold dot" is important here.
And if I were the organizer, I would ask you to resend the save, because there was still a lot of time. In case of refusal, I would credit you with the basic (level 1, without artifacts) amount of parameters.
In reply to Fireball
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Fireball;115055
2AmberSoler

By registering for the tournament, a participant agrees to abide by the rules outlined in the first post of the thread and only those rules, not the general rules.
I would like to draw your attention to the fact that the rules of the current tournament do not cover many aspects outlined in the general rules. In this case, according to your position, they can be ignored by any player in this tournament.
Your position is justified from the point of view of your life logic, but from the point of view of mathematical logic, you are DEFINITELY WRONG, and the ban exists.
Mathematics is not entirely applicable here. I would say that in matters of rules, one should be guided by the logic of legal norms, which differs from mathematics precisely in the existence of laws that are assumed by default.

Or, if it will be easier for you, let's take the example of traffic rules - on a road with one-way traffic and a permitted speed of 90 km/h, there is a temporary sign (an analogy to the rules of the current tournament) that reduces the permissible speed to 60 km/h. The reason does not matter, but the driver must follow this sign. According to your logic, the one-way traffic sign ceases to be valid at this moment, because new rules for passage came into force with the appearance of the sign on the roadway, and nothing was said about one-way traffic in them...

I, however, argue that if it has not been explicitly canceled, it continues to be in effect by default.
You are unlikely to dispute this... Here is a direct analogy - mathematics does not work here.
You really violated the rules, and the "fat dot" here is significant.
Only if we omit the rule stating that the law has no retroactive effect... :) My save was with the host BEFORE the "clarification" of this controversial point. Although I question the legitimacy of such a clarification after the start of the tournament. There is simply no higher authority that has the right to judge this issue... :)
And, if I were the organizer, I would ask you to resend the save, as there was still plenty of time. In case of refusal, I would credit you with the basic (level 1, without artifacts) amount of parameters.
I absolutely agree with you and am ready to abandon the secondary criterion altogether if there is at least one participant in the tournament who, BEFORE the announcement of the preliminary results, says that my position infringes on his legitimate rights. And I will not argue under any circumstances.

I deliberately raised this issue before the end of the tournament so that there would be no reason to accuse me of bias towards anyone. My goal is to put an end to the concept of interpreting tournament rules once and for all.
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In reply to AmberSoler
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AmberSoler;114912
Yeah... reading thirty pages of rambling... :D on quasi-scientific topics... :) It was a blast, remember? No other Tournament has generated so much chatter...
I meant that it makes sense to see who participated and what results they achieved. By the way, you can also look at the map and the starting save. This is for those who are new and didn't participate in the Tournament. And you might not even need to read the chatter :)
AmberSoler;114912

By the way, have you completed even one final run of the current Tournament? It seems to me that there will be no more than ten or twelve saves in the end...
No :( I'm afraid I won't be able to finish it by tomorrow. I also want to try to complete a fourth one. At this stage, the map turned out to be difficult in terms of finding heroes for me. I did an initial walkthrough and stopped halfway. I realized that I needed to hire other heroes. Then, when I figured it out and calculated who I needed (this was after the situation with the identical classes), I still couldn't get that hero. Today was my last attempt to get him, and I couldn't - and even if I could, I don't know what would have happened. So now, in order to have time, I've returned to my first, stupid option - maybe I can somehow squeeze in, although I highly doubt it. But I've always said that participation is primary, and the result is secondary :) But I'm so tired of these level 3 hero faces :)
AmberSoler;114912

It's a waste to set such long deadlines for the Tournament if everyone plays on the last day; it could probably be done in two weeks... :)
A month is too much; the intrigue and interest disappear because nothing happens, and there's no one to compete with online... :D
Well, it's not beneficial for me if, for example, I'm also participating in another Tournament. And how can the interest and intrigue disappear? Only for a while :) By the end of the month, at the end of the Tournament, these two things will return even to those who finished the walkthrough on the very first day and sent the result, I think :)
In reply to IronAxe
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IronAxe;115065
How can interest and intrigue disappear? Maybe just for a while :) By the end of the month, when the tournament is over, these two things will return even to those who finished the walkthrough on the very first day and submitted their results, I think.
Well, yes... it seems they've already returned! :D
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In reply to Fireball
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Fireball;115028

This statement was the last one in the discussion and provided a logical conclusion.
And I still don't understand WHY you can't BUY other players' DECEASED HEROES? And, by the way, your own heroes either (BUT THIS ISN'T AS IMPORTANT :) - YOUR OWN heroes won't die in OFFLINE mode. Is there any logical and reasonable explanation from VDV as to why you can't buy other players' deceased heroes?
In reply to IronAxe
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IronAxe;115072
I still don't understand WHY you can't BUY other players' DECEASED heroes? And, by the way, your own either (BUT THIS ISN'T AS IMPORTANT :) - your own won't die in the OFFLINE mode. Is there any logical and reasonable explanation from VDV as to why you can't redeem other players' deceased heroes???
I would suggest saving such comments until after the tournament is over. Everything has its explanation; right now, let's focus on discussing the tournament, which isn't ideal...
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In reply to AmberSoler
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AmberSoler;115032

1. The general rules for running Tournaments take precedence – I hope you won’t argue with that.
2. The general rules allow for buying out an opponent’s hero.
3. If a specific Tournament has restrictions on the general rules, this point must be clearly stated in the form of a prohibition. There doesn’t seem to be anything contradictory to logic in my statement.
4. The Tournament rules contain a quote from the general rules, which does not change them. The fact that the rules of the current Tournament do not state that "You can buy out an opponent's hero who died in battle" is not grounds to prohibit this point of the general rules. Because in that case, we would have every right to consider all other general rules, not specified in the rules of the current Tournament, as cancelled.

All points not specified in the rules of the current Tournament, but specified in the general rules, continue to apply by definition. This is about logic.
I acknowledge these arguments as reasonable. We need to be more careful when drafting rules for specific Tournaments. Especially since they are held once a month :) and that's not a bad thing. Also, the rules state that the Tournament will run until September 31 :)
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13. The Tournament starts on September 1 and will last until September 31 (inclusive!). The results will be announced on October 3, 2007.
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But my calendar shows something different. Therefore, I demand that the Tournament be extended by one day, according to the rules!!! :) I'm serious! :)

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AmberSoler;115074
I would suggest leaving such comments until the Tournament is over. Everything has its explanation; we just don't want to get into a discussion about the Tournament right now, which wouldn't be very good...
I suggested that VDV explain this, without touching on the discussion of the current Tournament.
In reply to IronAxe
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IronAxe;115075
But my calendar shows something different. Therefore, I demand that the tournament be extended by one day, according to the rules!!! :) I'm serious! :)
:smile40: You're a riot!!! :smile40:
You were given 31 days for the tournament, and you have every right to use them - and who cares that the 31st day of the tournament expires in the evening of October 1st! Your claims are justified, even though it's a real joke... :D Iron, let me try to dig up the right hero for you, if that helps you finish the game on time. Send me the necessary save file and instructions on where to hire him... :D
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In reply to Fireball
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Fireball;115055
This ban is also explicitly stated because, from the point of view of mathematical logic, the phrase means a ban on redeeming ANY fallen heroes.
Of course, we don't always formulate our thoughts with mathematical precision. Therefore, it is necessary to clarify with the organizers whether you have understood them correctly.
As far as I remember, it was this interpretation that caused heated discussions, and the general rules included the fact that it is allowed to redeem other players' heroes. And it was recommended to write the ban in the rules more specifically, with the clarifying word ANY. Apparently, VDV simply forgot to do this. Well, no big deal. So, whoever redeemed heroes didn't violate the rules :)
In reply to IronAxe
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QUOTE=IronAxe
I demand that the tournament be extended by one day, according to the rules!!! :) I'm serious! :)

Comrades! Those who have already sent in their saves are already on edge, waiting for the tournament results, and you want to make them nervous for another day!
Well, if it's dead, it's dead. We'll wait for midnight on Sunday and start sharing the results.
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In reply to AmberSoler
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AmberSoler;115079
:smile40: You're amazing!!! :smile40:
You were given 31 days for the tournament, and you have every right to use them – and who cares that the 31st day of the tournament expires in the evening of October 1st! Your claims are justified, even though it's a real joke... :D Iron, let me try to find the hero you need, if that helps you finish the game on time. Send me the save file and instructions on where to hire him... :D
Only a rope will help me :) Let me send you this save file after the tournament ends, and you can try to find the hero I requested?
In reply to IronAxe
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IronAxe;115083
Only a rope can help me now :) Let me send you this save file after I finish, and you can try to find the hero I requested?
Assuming it's even possible to hire him... You know there are certain limitations – maybe he's just hanging out in the enemy's tavern, having a smoke? :)
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BigAke;115082
IronAxe;115075
I demand that the tournament be extended by one day, according to the rules!!! :) I'm serious! :)

Comrades! Those who have already sent in their saves are already on edge, waiting for the tournament results, and you want to make them wait another day!
No, it's over. We'll wait for midnight on Sunday and start sharing the results:)
And if that's the case, then I demand it be extended until September 31st of next year :) We'll wait until September 31st :) The month was mentioned in the rules, and that's why I thought there would be 31 days in September this year :) Because I don't look at the calendar, I look at the tournament rules :) I only noticed today that I'm missing a day :)

Added 1 minute ago
AmberSoler;115084
Provided that he can be hired at all... You know that there are a number of restrictions - maybe he's smoking in the opponent's tavern? :)
I looked at the save in the hex editor - he's not in the opponent's tavern :)

Added 1 minute ago
BigAke;115082

Comrades! Those who have already sent in their saves are already on edge, waiting for the tournament results, and you want to make them wait another day!
No, it's over. We'll wait for midnight on Sunday and start sharing the results:)
Some have been on edge since the first day of the tournament because they finished in one day - so what? :)

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