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Posts from [ТУРНИР - SoD] "SM-masters"

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«SM-masters»


He hasn't been in OFB for 2 years now. Daddies avoid him, many consider him small and unbalanced, unworthy of determining skill.
So be it. This tournament is for true connoisseurs of the versatility of this wonderful game.
Heroes isn't just XL maps!!!
I present to your attention a tournament on one of the most unpredictable and dynamic templates:




Start - in zones 1 and 2. Contents of these zones: 500-3000 (9), 3000-6000 (6), 10000-15000 (1). They contain wood and ore mines. Monsters - medium. There is a passage between the starting zones, guarded by strong guards (ГО) (45000). Additionally, there are exits (6000) to 3 zones equivalent to the starting one in content (4, 8, 6 for the red player and 4, 8, 7 for the blue player). They contain random towns with a fort. Usually, from the starting castle there are 3 roads - to the guards and to 2 of the three secondary zones (different ones for different players).
From each zone 4, 6, 7, 8 you can go to 2 treasuries (3, 5, 9, 10). Passage guard - 6000. In zones 3, 5, 9, 10 there are no roads and towns, monsters are strong. Zone contents: 10000-15000 (9), 15000-20000 (6), 20000-30000 (1). They contain gold mines and 2 valuable resource mines.
The landscape of zones 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 8 is determined by the type of town in that zone; 3, 5, 9, 10 are arbitrary.
The base sizes of all zones are the same.

Prizes:
The tournament winner will receive the "daddy" status in the online lobby for one year,
as well as a spot in FB-13 (if the tournament gathers 64 participants).
[/COLOR]

Before signing up for the tournament, please read the regulations carefully:

Organizational matters:

1. Tournament host – Korovka1987 (ICQ -716681566);
2. Judges – Korovka1987 (ICQ -716681566), sir Davos Seaworth (ICQ - 716748479), Dima Surmay (ICQ -263293484).
3. All tournament games go into the HoMM3 HW Player Rating.
4. Disputable issues, if any, are discussed off the forum.
To resolve, contact the host or one of the tournament judges via ICQ
and provide daily saves, ICQ logs, and other necessary information.

Requirements for participants:

- The tournament participant must have played several official games in a seasonal tournament or another official tournament on HeroesWorld, or at least 3 games with detailed reports in the fan games thread on heroesworld.
- Players with unconfirmed reports older than one month will not be accepted into the tournament.

Rules:

1. Game version: SoD + latest version of HD mod, HW_rulez 1.38.2 (1.38 or 1.4 allowed by mutual agreement)
2. The tournament is held according to the rules of online games in Heroes 3.
3. Games are played on the template 2SM4d(3):
Map settings options: map size L+U; players – 2; computers – 0; teams – 0; no water; monsters strong; difficulty 160%;
Chess timer – (16:00+06:30+01:00).
Roads – all.
Playing the mirrored SM /topic/at/1112669/ is allowed by mutual agreement of the players.
But the classic version remains a priority.
4. Town selection: TORG (two castles are generated); if identical castles are generated, re-generate.
Color is chosen by the player who sold the castle. Red-rush is forbidden.
5. Standard bans on objects (cartographers, hill forts, and keymaster tents).
Rebuilding the mage guild is allowed, there are no restrictions on rebuilding the library.
6. Restarts total 3 days (111+111+111 or 111+112 or 113)
Additionally: a restart upon generation of the guards with no road (taken at the request of one of the players, only on the day of discovery and no later than day 115).
If subjective restarts remain, one day of subjective restarts is used (i.e., on 114 we take restart 111).
If subjective restarts are exhausted and a player discovers that the guards are only accessible without a road, they have the right to demand an additional restart.


Tournament format:

1. Registration from July 27 to August 10
2. Draw on August 10.
3. Start of tournament games – August 10, 2018
4. The tournament is held in 2 stages: group stage (BO-1) and playoffs (Olympic system BO-3, final BO-5)
The duration of each round in the group is 10 days.
The duration of each playoff round is one month.
5. In the group stage, there will be a mandatory game schedule per round (see regulations).
Playing additional games is allowed (by agreement), but missing (without a valid reason) the mandatory game results in a tech loss.
If you are leaving, play and arrange in advance with your opponent and inform the organizer.
6. Within the round period, a report of the played game must be provided in the tournament thread for result accounting.
The preferred time for tournament games is daytime (12-24 Moscow time) on weekends and evening (19-24 Moscow time) on weekdays.
If an agreement with the opponent cannot be reached, at the request of one of the players, an ODD is assigned for the game!!!
If there is no information about the mandatory game, a 0-0 result is recorded.
7. Round schedule:
Group stage: 10 weeks + additional round of 10 days (2.5 months)
Round 1: August 10 – August 20
Round 2: August 21 – August 31
Round 3: September 1 – September 10
Round 4: September 11 – September 20
Round 5: September 21 – September 30
Round 6: October 1 – October 10
Round 7: October 11 – October 20
Additional games for the right to play in the playoffs (between 8 participants who took 4th place) October 21 - October 30

8. A win gives 3 points, a draw – 1 point, a loss – 0 points.
Places are distributed based on points accumulated.
In case of a tie, additional criteria apply in order of priority:
1) Head-to-head result;
2) Berger coefficient;
3) An additional round on blitz timer 08:00 + 04:00 + 1:00

9. Playoff draw on October 31.
9 players each taking 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places and 5 players taking 4th place (from 8 groups directly to playoffs) + 4 from the additional round).

Good luck to everyone, and may the force of randomness be with you!!!



In reply to Dima Surmay
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#569
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Dima Surmay
10/19/2018 BoLo (Red, Stronghold, Dessa, Dessa) def Dima Surmay (Blue, Conflux, Luna, Charna) 2sm4d(3) 135

The opponent had no chance of winning, but he noticed that I passed by the dwarves without attacking them, so he immediately left and demanded a technical defeat. The judges decided that it was not allowed to pass by the dwarves, as they were guarding the passage and had moved slightly.
It's understandable that it's not allowed to pass through unattacked passages on a small map, but ideally, they should look at the entire map and preferably on day 1, where all the guards were present.
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In reply to CanaBeasT
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#570
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CanaBeasT
Well, the fact that you can’t traverse impassable paths with a Creature is normal, but ideally, you should look at a screenshot of the entire map and preferably on day 1, showing where all the guards were.
and what will that change?
In reply to Dima Surmay
#571
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Dima Surmay
19.10.2018 BoLo (Red, Stronghold, Dessa, Dessa) def Dima Surmay (Blue, Conflux, Luna, Charna) 2sm4d(3) 135

The opponent had no chance of winning, but he saw that I passed by the dwarves without attacking them, and immediately came out and started demanding a technical defeat. The judges decided that it was impossible to pass by the dwarves, as if they weren't guarding the passage, but had simply moved slightly.
Interesting screenshot; there is a point in the rules that fits this situation very well, especially in the context of the recent discussion with Timbuktu:
"2.6. Transitions between zones.
By the words "a specific passage between zones" on a generated game map, we mean the space between obstacles that form the boundaries of zones, through which the hero can pass into an adjacent zone. In a real game situation, there may be several such passages, even if the template scheme indicates that there is only one passage.
On all templates, except for XL+U size templates:
2.6.1. In order to pass from one zone to another through a specific passage, it is necessary to eliminate the guard of this passage. If there are several guards on the passage, it is enough to destroy any one of them.
2.6.5. In the absence of a passage guard, it is allowed to freely move from zone to zone."
Now the question is: How many passages to another zone do you see in the initial screenshot? And how many guards do you see guarding these passages?
艰难获胜 herolwy
In reply to kamukag3e
#572
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This is exactly the same situation (in essence) in which I made a mistake with the Bishop in the first game of OFB-12. Moreover, we were playing on a mirrored map; I made a mistake on my side (I played it safe and didn't run where I could have, but ran around), while he, having more experience, didn't even think that there was something to consider and just ran straight ahead. The adjacent zones are located on the same type of terrain, so it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE TO UNEQUIVOCALLY SAY HOW MANY TURNS IT TAKES AND WHERE. Here, if you look above, you can see two passages (gnomes on the left, empty space on the right - maybe it has already been cleared?), and if you look slightly below, you can see one passage (to the left and above the dark quest hut, below the gnomes and stones under them). And by the way, in the screenshot that Dima attached to his report, his hero hasn't crossed this lower passage yet, which is the only one, and for crossing which the gnomes need to be defeated. In my opinion, the only perfectly correct line of behavior for the player here is to quickly start thinking: what do the gnomes guard? Nothing. This means they are guarding a passage. Where is the passage/passages? The ground is the same – it’s unclear. So? It means an immediate save and sending it to the judge so that he makes a decision. And even if this is a subjective decision by the judge or AK, it will become an objective (the same for both) truth for the players, and they will be able to continue playing according to the same rules for both (which is the goal of refining the game rules). I also think that another principle applies here, which Dirty voiced today. If it is impossible to unequivocally make a decision about a violation of the rules, then the situation should be interpreted in favor of the player (who is accused of violating the rules). That is, in this case, I think that Dima's position is not hopeless. And once again, I would suggest Korovka appeal to the AK. In my opinion, there is something to consider carefully here.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
In reply to Grando
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#573
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In this case, I would advise the judges to examine how Dima Surmai's maneuver actually affected the game situation; that's point one.
In a similar situation (I mean the situation on the map, not the whole backstory), the judges denied a technical defeat for the opponent (and rightly so); that's point two.
Why is one decision made in one case, and a different decision in another, even though the situations are similar?
Moreover, it was stated that the opponent immediately stopped the game.
And in general, it's unclear – did the opponent jump into the treasure room with control? Even if so, Dima had no objective way to doubt whether the opponent had previously cleared the guards (or hadn't?). According to the formal rules, there was no violation, since there is a bugged passage without guards, which, according to the rules, can be used.
And there is clearly no basis here for a technical defeat. Either let's award the victory to Timbuktu as well, because some kind of double standards have started, I swear.

To add to this, based on Dima's screenshot, I personally see that the Moon with 24 mana and 5 spells on a Phoenix was easily taking down these gnomes with one or two walls of fire.
Нам это идеально подойдёт! (с)

"Совесть - она либо есть, либо её нет" (с) RedWhait HP
In reply to MerlinTheMagician
#574
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MerlinTheMagician
Technically, there was no violation of the rules, as there is a bugged passage without guards, which, according to the rules, can be used.
Merlin is right; he looked at the map and didn't invent that the dwarves were moved and that this is a bug – there is nothing like that in the rules. The rules clearly state that there can be passages without guards; here, there are three passages, but two guards (wolves and dwarves), meaning that where Luna passed, there simply were no guards.
艰难获胜 herolwy
In reply to korovka1987
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#575
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Sold the Rampart for 4700. I thought for a long time about who to pick as a starter, but in the end, I chose the extra goblota. On the very first day, Mullich from the tavern. On day 113, we got a bear.
On the human secondary, we bought a spellbook and looted Boots of Speed.
Built the bear in the castle.
Not seeing any particular alternatives, we rushed (Mullich with Expert Earth Magic and Tactics).
We didn't quite make it by day 123 to take the main of the opponent (didn't want to risk it, so I had Mullich camp on the road in a spot where he theoretically couldn't be seen). On day 124, the opponent was holed up in the Stronghold — with 1 Angel, 5 Unicorns, 15 Grands, and 7 Mages. But Kyrre was almost unleveled and had no spellbook. We had 3 Bears, 9 Thunderbirds, 25 Arbalests, 30 Wolves, 30 Pikemen, 5 Orcs, and 100 Hobgoblins, plus some stats, plus Mass Shield, Mass Skin. The final fight was no contest: we cast Shield, crashed the birds into the Grands, got a morale proc, shredded the Mages. 5 Horses took down one Thunderbird and blinded it, but that didn't matter. I still don't understand why the opponent didn't take 111: aside from one Cons on the first day, there was nothing, and the central respawn as well.
Thanks for the game.
Нам это идеально подойдёт! (с)

"Совесть - она либо есть, либо её нет" (с) RedWhait HP
Battle Report Accepted
Цитадель / Stronghold Faction Цитадель / Stronghold
Гретхен / Gretchin Start Hero Гретхен / Gretchin
Сэр Мюллих / Sir Mullich Main Hero Сэр Мюллих / Sir Mullich
Победа / Def Победа / Def
Оплот / Rampart Faction Оплот / Rampart
Кайри / Kyrre Start Hero Кайри / Kyrre
Кайри / Kyrre Main Hero Кайри / Kyrre
Map Template
2sm4d(3)
Game Length
124 days
Game Date
10/19/2018
Reported
10/19/2018 10:39 PM
Rating Impact Archived
MerlinTheMagician 1511 1526 +15 ↑
rus12345 1520 1505 -15 ↓
Rated Sep 28, 2022

Accepted by opponent on 10/21/2018 7:55 PM

In reply to kamukag3e
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#576
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MerlinTheMagician
But it's unclear – did the opponent jump into the Treasury with control?
He came from the other side.
kamukag3e
Merlin essentially did the right thing by saying, looking at the map, why invent that the Dwarves are moved and that this is a bug – there is nothing like that in the rules. The rules clearly state that there can be passages without guards; here, there are three passages, but two guards (wolves and dwarves), which means that where Luna passed, there was simply no guard.
I think this is the most correct decision, especially since most of those who spoke out believe that the violation (even if we assume that it existed) is not obvious.
This was one of the first cases considered by the judges.
I repeat once again that I have serious doubts about the correctness of the decision we made.
I raised this issue because I believe that the report should be annulled.
The technical report can remain in effect, as the players are unlikely to replay this match; both will advance, one in 1st place and the other in 2nd, and I don't think that's so important.
So, the mistake is not so fatal.
It is simply important at this stage to understand how to act in similar situations in the future.
For example, the same case with Timbuktu, where he was forbidden to go down for gold:

So, you can go to the left, then down behind the mountain, but you can't run next to the archers.
Okay, let's assume that's the case; he runs around, and then the opponent comes and passes next to the archers; what then, a technical report against the opponent?
But he didn't know; he saw the opponent running from here to there, but he didn't see that he was going around and thinks that the guard was defeated.
And if it's not a technical report, then why are we forbidding the first player from running there?

Most appeals to the judges are precisely about moved guards and bugged passages.
Why not allow them to be used, especially since they are allowed on all other playable maps?
Perhaps CM (Conquest Map) is no longer played because of such a large number of controversial episodes...
I understand that you wanted to do what was best by creating this rule, to reduce the amount of freebies and make everything more balanced, but in fact, it creates a lot of controversial moments.
It turns out that a hill is generated, dividing the passage – that's it, there's a loophole to pass through, but if it's not generated, then, sorry, you're out of luck.
The same randomness!!! And you can't escape it, so maybe you shouldn't run?
In reply to korovka1987
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#577
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Purely my IMHO. Considering that the opponent had already been in that treasure, Dima had reason to believe that the opponent had already cleared the path that Luna used. And in any case, there was no formal violation of the current rules, considering the current definition of the term "path." From the point of view of a hypothetical advantage in scouting (which the opponent is emphasizing), I repeat, with the Phoenix, Luna's dwarves are easily defeated, there is enough mana, and approximately the same number of movement points are spent. Also, I would like to remind you that there is also such a concept as "a decision in favor of justice." And justice in this case is that Dima objectively outplayed his opponent in this game. The report should be annulled, the tech should be withdrawn, an analysis of the game situation should be conducted, the opponents' chances should be assessed, and a decision should be made based on objective data (and not on the subjective, underhanded whining of a certain individual). I repeat, the judges within the same tournament allowed different decisions in the same situation. How is this even possible? Furthermore, before the start of the playoffs, I recommend making a firm decision on the rules and their interpretation. I would really not like to be in the same situation when, instead of manfully admitting defeat, the opponent starts engaging in some kind of nonsense. I have already voiced my proposal in the AK thread. For L templates, which CMK also is, the rule of mandatory clearing of guards between zones should be supplemented as follows: without clearing any guards (if the opponent has not done so earlier), it is forbidden to move FROM ONE ZONE TO ANOTHER, with the exception of cases where there is no guard at all within the hero's line of sight (5 cells). If two different paths are located next to each other, one of which is not guarded (as in Timbuktu's screenshots, for example), then the existing guard of the other path is cleared.
Нам это идеально подойдёт! (с)

"Совесть - она либо есть, либо её нет" (с) RedWhait HP
In reply to MerlinTheMagician
#578
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MerlinTheMagician
I still haven't understood why the opponent didn't take 111....and the central respawn again.
Merlin, what's wrong with the central respawn on the SM?
艰难获胜 herolwy
In reply to Gee
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#579
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About a month and a half ago, we started – I don’t remember what – but I remember that the chocolate ran out. Thanks for the game.
324183776, browser32 (skype)
Играю почти всегда - пишите =)
Мой twitch канал https://www.twitch.tv/browser32

Весна-осень 2011.

Battle Report Accepted
Оплот / Rampart Faction Оплот / Rampart
Ивор / Ivor Start Hero Ивор / Ivor
Гундула / Gundula Main Hero Гундула / Gundula
Победа / Def Победа / Def
Башня / Tower Faction Башня / Tower
Сольмир / Solmyr Start Hero Сольмир / Solmyr
Сольмир / Solmyr Main Hero Сольмир / Solmyr
Map Template
2sm4d(3)
Game Length
136 days
Game Date
10/20/2018
Reported
10/20/2018 9:06 AM
Rating Impact Archived
Browser 1435 1452 +17 ↑
Rayne 1502 1485 -17 ↓
Rated Sep 28, 2022

Accepted by opponent on 10/20/2018 9:23 AM

In reply to kamukag3e
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#580
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kamukag3e
Merlin, what's wrong with the central respawn on the SM map?
The passage guards themselves aren't too weak, but the central respawn is small, so there are few objects and little experience for pushing into adjacent zones.
And on top of that, there's a crazy withdrawal of 4700 — nothing to buy with.
Нам это идеально подойдёт! (с)

"Совесть - она либо есть, либо её нет" (с) RedWhait HP
In reply to Browser
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#581
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I don't understand any shenanigans in skirmishes:smile18:. But even so, two decent players will always find an interesting game. Early rush or late game, but tech-mooching is for the weak.
ICQ 701845462
In reply to Browser
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#582
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Browser
Started about a month and a half ago - I don't remember - I just remember that the chocolate ran out - ). Thanks for the game.
Thanks for the game!
In reply to korovka1987
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#583
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korovka1987
and what will that change?
Essentially, we have a treasure, marked in orange (it might be larger).
There are two paths leading to it, and the terrain type is the same, making it difficult to determine how the guards could have moved (the dwarves were likely moved as mentioned above, but it could also have happened as I showed), so in such situations, there should be a more obvious indication of intrusion into the zone: taking resources from the zone, visiting the object, crossing the 100% boundary of the zone.
If in the case of Timbuktu, we can state with 100% certainty that there was an intrusion into another zone, then in this case, we can only talk about it when crossing the orange line, where the hero stopped (see screenshot). Therefore, personally, I believe that there was no clear violation here, and the hero stopped at the boundary of what is allowed.

PS In addition, there is an interesting point in the rules regarding redraws, which states that if the increase did not affect the outcome of the battle, it is not considered a redraw. Personally, I believe that here too, it is necessary to make an adjustment to the rules and take into account whether the hero could break through this guard without any harm (in controversial situations) and whether this breakthrough/non-breakthrough would have affected the outcome of the game.

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