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Posts from Changes to the rules starting with the letter G (Graal and Galtran).
Because you have to fight for Castle and Keep. On Anarchy, you can get artifacts for free (not to mention scrolls), so there are no complaints about the Grail there. I believe that such a boost in the form of free full control should not be given for free. Everyone who talks about the time spent is absolutely right, but even when excavations take more than a week, the reward is too high for simply digging in the ground.
The logic is ironclad: you have to fight for artifacts (Keep and Castle), so their presence near your main is not an imbalance, but just random luck (you were lucky), well, if you don't get them in the first week, you'll think about how to get them in the second, but that's not an imbalance because you won't get them for free like the Grail. And the Grail is an imbalance because you can dig it up for free and place it in a Conflux, which also won't randomly end up nearby! And building a level 5 Magic Tower in a Tower with a Library in the early second week using freely gathered resources and getting full control on the first try – is that also an imbalance or just random luck?
Dirty_Player... I believe that such a boost in the form of free full control should not be obtained for free. Everyone who writes about time costs is certainly right; however, even when excavations take more than a week, the reward is too high for simply digging in the dirt.I just don't see any real basis for this discussion. With boosts like the red orb (enemy minus wisdom, minus all elements, minus spellcasting, intelligence, and even minus resist with eagle eye and specialization) or the cloak, all others pale in comparison, and any other only increases the probability of opportunities to counter it. Randomness simply distributes this into baskets. Are there really so many deficient hero-players who cannot understand that there is a mathematical probability? Over a long distance, your distributions will eventually be even, and if you failed to capitalize on your arrival with 10 boosts against 5 for the opponent, then those are only your problems. Wait for the next moment. It doesn't happen that things are bad for you all the time. And what about boosts in the form of logisticians with +2k mp, Tazar, Craig — it's all the same thing along with the grail. After all, where is the statistics showing that out of 100 games, 50 or 25 were won due to fast grail excavation? Everything must be compared and analyzed, rather than making impulsive posts that have no real ground. They redesigned the guild (probably for nothing, as it made hero-players lazy), but why did nobody use the grail before this — a good controversy, by the way. One person considers themselves strong on the timer, another — in trading. The field should be expanded, not narrowed. And for real imbas, simply add usage penalties. Dirty_Player<blockquote... one strong hero-player messaged me on ICQ and asked: "Now, so that I don't lose to a digger, do I have to learn and train how to dig myself?". I couldn't find an adequate objection. Hmm... strange, why isn't the word hero-player in quotes? Before this, it turns out he didn't know that everything is easy and simple with the grail... so how can he have the status of "strong" if he couldn't even master the basics — namely, every noob digging for the grail? Well yes, strong hero-players wouldn't stoop to that. Clues and Griffin Conservatory with utops and house redesign are our everything.
Dirty_PlayerThere are many very easy utilities for screenshots. They will save instantly and put them in the required folder.
Does anyone from the Academy remember the arguments for why this was done? (besides the obvious, that Reddit was added to the Academy, and he "convinced" them). How exactly did he convince them?
:rolleyes: Does this seem like an unimportant question? Let me clarify. There's no point in discussing anything now, or presenting any arguments, if the decision will still be made randomly, and the arguments will be forgotten.
As I see it, most people here argue just for the sake of arguing — some are trying to save face, while others simply have a poor understanding of the game... we don't need this kind of discussion. I suggest we take the TOP-20 (top-50) players by Player Rating on HeroesWorld and hold a vote among them (again, I'm tired of explaining why it should be done this way). p.s. Arguments about AK's authoritative opinion carry little weight in this situation.
that's why having them near your main hero isn't overpowered
There was a question from Aive. On which map can KZ and KV be placed near the main hero? The only ones that come to mind are Diamond and Jebus. But the maps are designed in such a way that the relics are simply scattered on the ground. What can you do about it? Well, in this context, maybe the Grail would be appropriate. But what about the Grail on a balance where there are no relics at all? Or on HL+U?
Players who don't want this "roulette" can exclude them. But the Grail cannot be excluded, no matter which map you choose (except for the mirror map, which is only one in the pool), there is a chance that it will be dug up. You asked for arguments "why?", I gave you arguments that were not taken out of thin air. Many players share this (or a similar) position. And since that is the case, the problem exists. That is why this discussion arose. And in response, it's just "so what?". Therefore, only Hella remains to be quoted. :smile32: rebellious
I don't see any real point in this discussion. With boosts in the form of a red orb (minus wisdom, minus all elements, minus magic, intelligence, even minus resistance with Eagle Eye and specialization), all other artifacts fade, and any other one only increases the probability of opportunities to counter it.
Another comparison with artifacts, which has already been discussed many times in this thread. I don't see the point in repeating it again. You can just reread the thread from the beginning. rebellious
Hmm... strange, why isn't the word "hero-player" in quotes. Before that, he didn't know that everything was easy and simple with the Grail...
Al Feyn
did anyone from the AK team remember the arguments for why this was done?
It is very difficult to predict what consequences a change in the rules will lead to, especially if it is ambiguous. For example, it was difficult to predict the removal of the ban on Mullich and magic specialists. Or, for example, it is impossible to immediately analyze what consequences the removal of restrictions on Conflux may lead to: will it be overpowered or will it be "okay". :confused: The same was true with the Grail. No one expected that it would be dug up SO OFTEN in the early stages. rebellious
There are many very easy utilities in the screenshots. They will save it instantly and put it in the desired folder.
I'm aware of it, I was just suggesting to integrate it into the game for convenience.
Ultimately, we need to start by answering the key and fundamental question: what are Heroes of Might and Magic games about?
Why are there sudden claims that you don't need to think hard, but simply choosing a certain option is a skill...?
Both are skills. Determining the optimal location, especially with only one or two obelisks, the willingness to take risks or invest in exploring additional obelisks to confirm (or sometimes disprove) your conclusions... And when someone says that this has nothing to do with Heroes, then what does? Inputting parameters into external software and obtaining precise data and precise ranges of data about the number of guards and the contents of Pandora boxes – is that Heroes? Is the ability to take screenshots Heroes?
For me personally, Heroes is a game about considering many probabilistic factors and making decisions based on available data. At the same time, the decision must be based solely on the player's internal resources, their thinking skills, intelligence, and risk assessment.
And the Grail is just one of the probabilistic factors, just like the possibility of gaining control of a respawn point on the first day, just like choosing five cons in a row, just like Goshan in the dungeon...
Нам это идеально подойдёт! (с)
"Совесть - она либо есть, либо её нет" (с) RedWhait HP
Oh, these "daddies" who love to throw shade at the Academy at the first opportunity...
No, this isn't a provocation, it's just that the current Academy roster has many interested parties, as well as inactive members... and as it turns out, there's no consensus on this issue. I just wrote in advance why I believe the "legislative" and executive branch of the forum's governing body is not effective in this case. :smile02:
As far as I can see, most people here are arguing just for the sake of arguing. Some are trying to save face, while others simply have a poor understanding of the game... we don't need a discussion like that. I suggest taking the TOP-20 (TOP-50) players from the HeroesWorld Player Rating and holding a vote among them (again, I'm tired of explaining why it should be this way). p.s. arguments about the authoritative opinion of AK (Arena Kings) carry little weight in this situation.
Of course, top players have recently raised the level of game mechanics knowledge and strategic understanding... but their job is to play, just as racers drive cars built by engineers. Nothing good will come of this.
No, this isn't just speculation; there are many interested parties in the current AK roster, as well as individuals who are inactive... and as it turns out, there's no consensus on this issue. I just wrote in advance why I believe the "legislative" and executive branch of the forum's governing body is not effective in this case. :smile02:
Well, there are officially 4 people in the AK right now. Please specify these MANY interested parties. Given the current workload, this is more than enough. There were discussions about the Grail when the roster was full, including Pete and Cobra. And regarding the issue of interest, everyone can be accused, but even Reddi himself wrote that the Grail needs to be limited (if you read carefully, of course).
Well, in AC there are officially 4 people at the moment. Please indicate these MANY interested parties. With this "workload", that is quite enough. There were discussions about the Grail when the full roster was present, including Pete and Cobra. As for the interest, everyone can be blamed here, but even Reddi himself wrote that the Grail needs to be restricted (if you read carefully, of course).
Not quite expressed correctly, I meant not only the Grail but the second point of the topic, and if by the Grail Reddi was meant, then in my opinion a couple of other participants would find it more comfortable to play without Galtran on Jebus... essentially, when the Commission starts dancing in different directions, trying to create a system of rules specifically for themselves (or, conversely, not change it), that is no longer a cake, so due to the need to make the right decision on this issue, it would be good to involve another active group of players who adequately understand the game. IMHO
By the way, maybe I didn't read carefully, and someone might have already suggested it, but you could significantly reduce the impact of the Grail by simply prohibiting the use of the bug where a hero digs every day using manipulations with movement points. This was actually mentioned in some recent tournament rules.
If so many people dislike the Grail, it seems like, on the one hand, it should be adjusted. But on the other hand, nothing is artificially banned; instead, the existing bug-feature is simply fixed.
It's very difficult to predict what consequences a change in the rules will have, especially if it's ambiguous. For example, it was hard to predict the removal of the ban on Mullich and magic specialists. Or, for example, it's impossible to immediately analyze what consequences the removal of restrictions on the Conflux might have: will it be overpowered or will it be "okay"? :confused: The same was true with the Grail. No one expected that it would be dug up SO OFTEN in the early stages.
But remembering who thought what and what they talked about is still possible, right? Or was it just random guessing – let's poke around and see – will it work or not? It worked with Mullich, but not with the Grail?
(regarding recent ideas – any vote by any super-duper experts is worse than thinking with your head and weighing the arguments; Wick is an example of a vote by experts that removed the restrictions on the Grail, which I mentioned above).
By the way, maybe I didn't read carefully, and someone might have already suggested it, but you could significantly reduce the impact of the Grail by simply prohibiting the use of the bug where a hero digs every day using manipulations with movement points. This was actually specified in some recent tournament.
If so many people dislike the Grail, it seems that, on the one hand, it should be reduced. And on the other hand, nothing is artificially banned; instead, the existing bug-feature is simply fixed.
This is not a "bug-feature," but a direct bug in the game, and using it is bug exploitation.
ps. The discussion ultimately turned into a "lolшто" (a nonsensical discussion), but that's nothing new.
By the way, maybe I didn't read carefully, and someone might have already suggested it, but you could significantly reduce the impact of the Grail by simply prohibiting the use of the bug where a hero digs every day using manipulations with movement points. This was actually specified in some recent tournament.
If so many people don't like the Grail, it seems that, on the one hand, it should be reduced. And on the other hand, nothing is artificially banned; the existing bug-feature is simply fixed.
If I'm not mistaken, this has already been banned for a year.
kamukag3e
