Posts from Might & Magic: Heroes 8 - to wait or not to wait?

Thoughts of an old Heroes fan:

Many people here are writing about whether to wait for Heroes 8 or not. I don't know; personally, I'm waiting (yes, yes, perhaps I'm inadequately optimistic B)) and I even think that sooner or later (or preferably in a timely manner) we will see H8.

I don't know if the events of a hypothetical H8 will unfold in Ashan or some other world. In principle, I don't like Ashan all that much; there are too many doubtful or even completely unattractive elements in it for me. But Ashan has one undeniable advantage: it is well-developed. In that regard, I'm more in favor of Ashan. Especially since the creators of a new game (if one ever happens) will have to solve the DM problem one way or another, and finally move from endless prequels to a linear and unpredictable plot development.

To be honest, the last main campaign plot that I liked was the epic action of H5. After that, in my opinion, the plot acutely lacked scale, scope, and the confrontation of irreconcilable enemies. Too many civil wars, palace intrigues, and so on. Both the Necromancer and orcs became quite acceptable to the "good" Factions. And often, they were even friendly. In general, personally for me, lore and plot are important, but they are still secondary to the atmosphere and aesthetics of the game world. In this sense, I liked the trend indicated in H7 – not following the imperfect mythology too literally. Let me explain. For example, the lesser fire spirits – Cabirs – are not with the dwarves, but with the mages; the lesser earth spirits – troglodytes – are not with the elves, but in the dungeon. I think the developers shouldn't make the "fire" Fortress faction, for example, purely "fire-fire," or the "light" Haven faction entirely filled with radiance and light steeds. And the Necromancer should be made a bit less... hm... "spidery." It's better to separate the myths and the legends themselves. Originality is, of course, not bad, but originality for the sake of originality is not good.

Now for the main thing, the gameplay. I am not at all opposed to RTS; I like many of them, but... Heroes survived the change of world, faction composition, and much more more or less painlessly. But the only thing that caused rejection from a significant part of the fandom was the radical change in gameplay. H4 and H6 are decent games with many great ideas, but they are still outcasts to some extent compared to the mainstream line. This is perhaps a problem for the Heroes series – almost any serious changes in gameplay are met with misunderstanding by a large (if not the majority) part of the fans. But, on the other hand, why reinvent the wheel? In a sense, such gameplay rigidity is a plus. Based on the currently unclear rumors about RTS, one could, of course, assume that in RB there will only be tactical battles, while the exploration of the adventure map will remain turn-based. Especially since the first attempts to cook up something similar were already in H5. But still, the combination of Heroes and RTS is somehow... doubtful, I guess. It would be better to separate such a product into a separate project within the franchise.

Ubisoft's policy also causes some bewilderment. Why, instead of making a raw game for 2000 r. plus a single labored add-on, not do otherwise. For example, make a solid base product for ~$15-20 (maximum). Only with five or six basic Factions, without GSC, alt-creatures, and all the rest. But with working network Multiplayer. And then earn money by releasing add-ons and expansions. Let them require the original game, but cost ~$10 or even less. Two or three add-ons with Factions, several expansions with GSC, alternative upgrades, new Campaigns, etc. I admit that I am a layman in this matter, but is it really not more profitable this way?

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And lastly:

News appeared on one of the Heroes portals about the release of Heroes 8 in 2019!
https://vgtimes.ru/games/might-magic-heroes-8/release-dates/

So, there is a reason to wait

without GSC

Without GSC, the online game will quickly fail, anonymous author. And in general, the system of paid add-ons (especially numerous ones) for an online game is extremely inconvenient.
Unless it's a season pass. If the game is worth it, you can splurge.

On one of the Heroes portals, news appeared about the release of Heroes 8 in 2019!
https://vgtimes.ru/games/might-magic...release-dates/

So, it makes sense to wait.

It says "Not announced" =

Judging by how the information is presented in the link, it's clearly a mistake.

No one knows for sure whether Heroes 8 will be made or not

As an alternative, you can simply have some fun for your own enjoyment: create a section on the forum called: "Workshop of Ideas for Heroes 8" and post your concepts, ideas, and suggestions there.

Let's go back to 2006. Heroes V, developed by the Russian studio Nival, was an excellent reimagining of the legendary third installment. The debate about which game in the series is better continues to this day. According to some insiders, the development process wasn't entirely smooth. The concept was changed several times at the publisher's request, which meant the game had to be reworked, and perhaps, just perhaps, without Ubisoft's interference, the strategy would have been even better. I don't know about you, but I've always loved Heroes 5 for its story campaigns. They weren't particularly different from typical fantasy plots, but they were intriguing and interesting nonetheless. Nival didn't disappoint in this regard either. The plot is very good, and it also leaves a curious ending, which continues in Dark Messiah - Queen Isabel gives birth to a half-demon, half-human child from Kha-Bleh, who is destined to plunge the world into darkness. Then, until the fall of 2007, two decent expansions for Heroes 5 were released, which greatly improved the gameplay, nicely deepened the game's lore, but weakly developed the plot. Throughout the two large story expansions, a group of different heroes very slowly overthrows the False Isabel from the throne. The only bright spot is the references to Dark Messiah. The most notable of these is that the main villain and opponent of Messiah, Arantir, the evil necromancer, and so on, is actually "good" and was looking for the Skull of Shadows in order to stop Messiah (although this is actually clear in the game towards the end). Let's not dwell on various side projects like browser games; they didn't do anything bad to the series. They didn't even damage its reputation much. Well, they exist, so what's the big deal? Let's move on to 2011. Or, as I call it, "The Beginning of the End." 2011 was the year that Might and Magic Heroes VI was released. Note the rebranding of the title; now M&M is placed at the beginning, as if hinting that this is an entire franchise. Nival refused to develop the sixth part of the series, citing Allods Online as the reason, so Ubisoft handed over the reins to the little-known studio Black Hole Entertainment. All fans of the Heroes series know that Black Hole turned the game into something that no patches or DLCs can fix. They completely changed the entire game mechanics. And they did it with four simple strokes: 1) They simplified the City Portal. Now, moving between cities requires almost no effort. 2) They allowed conquered cities to be transformed into cities of your race. 3) They gave the ability to quickly buy back all soldiers from all cities in one location. 4) Mines come under the player's control after capturing the city to which these mines belong. As a result, the entire strategic part is reduced to the hero jumping between cities of the same race and accumulating the largest army. That's it. The rest is simply unnecessary. And it seemed that who cares. But with the other strokes, the developers made the tactical part boring and uninteresting. First, instead of 7 levels of units, there are now only 3, and the units are grouped in them. Secondly, in addition to the usual characteristics and a couple of abilities, each unit has grown a thousand different passive and other abilities, resistances, and everything else, which only complicates the gameplay. Magic has become very weak and has moved into the category of more of a supporting role; the days of heroes with small armies destroying enemies with their spells are gone. The battles are arranged in some crooked way, the unit design is not impressive, the balance is questionable, and so on. In general, the game is just bad in terms of gameplay. This also affected sales. However, the game's plot, although of mediocre quality, is not bad in itself. It deepens the lore (for example, angels are just another race, no better than others) and tells about one family. The plot has only one problem - IT IS NOT INTERESTING. And it is uninteresting for one reason - it is a prequel to the fifth Heroes. Prequels can be interesting if they: 1) Lead to some prerequisites for the emergence of the plot lines of the original. 2) Or are written so amazingly that they overshadow the original. Neither of these is present in the plot of the sixth part. It is known that in 2016, Ubisoft fired the developers of the latest Might & Magic Heroes. Ubisoft decided to discontinue further cooperation with the German studio Limbic Entertainment. And this is after four years of work on Might & Magic X: Legacy, Might & Magic Heroes VI, and Might & Magic Heroes VII. It was these games that were mercilessly criticized by the vast majority of fans of the universe, so further unsuccessful development of this legendary series did not fit into any framework. In this regard, further updates to Might & Magic Heroes VII became impossible, and the "Trial by Fire" expansion is the final one. And here an interesting question arises: Do you think there is a chance that Ubisoft will ask Nival to return to developing the 8th part?

And here an interesting question arises:

do you think there is a chance that Ubisoft will ask Nival studio to return to developing the 8th installment?

Given the current political situation, it's highly doubtful! :smile27:

Given the current political situation, it's highly doubtful! :smile27:

It's not about politics. To surpass the fifth installment, a huge amount of money needs to be invested. Ubisoft will never go for that. And there's another important question. What game mode should it be, online or offline? For example, atlant108 thinks the sixth game is bad. In terms of playing against other players, I don't know, because I've never played against other players. But in terms of playing against the AI, I liked the game. So, it turns out that atlant108 and I need different versions of the same game.

To surpass the fifth installment, a huge amount of money needs to be invested. Ubisoft will never go for that.

It's quite amusing how this company saves every penny on the next game in the Heroes series, but then charges customers as if it were a AAA product.

Which mode should the game be designed for, online or offline?

It's probably the right question to ask. And, of course, you want to answer "it should be both." However, in reality, the turn-based strategy genre is difficult to develop for online play, unfortunately. It all comes down to the standard game time, which should not be too long for a popular product.

That’s the whole point – neither one will work. Online play needs short matches, while I, as an offline player, need at least medium-length matches, but ideally, long matches. So, what can be done?

It’s quite simple to implement different mechanics for online and offline play. It might seem difficult, and in some ways, it is. At the very least, offline progression (of heroes, castles) should be slower. But we can remember that something similar already exists. In Heroes of Might and Magic V, you can use a script to change the rate at which heroes gain experience, for example. In any part of the series, there are campaigns – a mechanism for increasing the length of a game, in a literal sense. In general, the task is difficult, but solvable.

I disagree. In the case of Heroes, separate games are needed for online and offline play. It's clear that no studio will do this. So, who's left? The fans. If you're surprised by this answer, then you've never played the X series. Basically, the developers of this series only create the framework of the game. Everything else is done by the fans. If you remember their last "masterpiece," X Rebirth, it's essentially the same as the seventh installment. And only thanks to the fans, who created a ton of mods for this game, can you actually play it now. In any case, the next Heroes game should be as open as possible for modding. By the way, the author of the map "Path of the Hero" proved that you can create other heroes on the platform of the fifth Heroes game. It just takes willingness.

The whole point is that neither one nor the other will work. Online play needs short matches, and as an offline player, I need at least medium-length matches, but ideally, long matches. What should I do?

And what's the problem? It's nonsense. Just choose the largest map size and the strongest monsters, and play for several days. I've done this many times in "Heroes 5" online. They're creating a problem where there isn't one. They're even coming up with scripts...

It's clear that no studio will do this.

What's that supposed to mean?
Fans can and should engage in modding, but even with the seventh installment, which seems to have good modding capabilities, what happens? If the game isn't appealing from the start, no one will create mods for it. And even if they do, no one will play them.
I suspect this is one of the reasons I haven't played the Heroes series ;)

And what's the problem? It's nonsense. Just choose the largest map size and the strongest monsters, and play for days. I've done this many times in "Heroes 5" online. They're creating a problem where there isn't one. They're coming up with all sorts of scripts...

That's true, but the balance is different on small and large maps. Although, perhaps you could ignore the balance for large maps and only balance for short online matches... But in my opinion, this would reduce the fun of offline matches, as it would limit the number of effective strategies. In "Heroes 5," all offline players play with the Necropolis, or with the Dark Elves, or with the Crystal Enclave, or a combination of these... It gets a bit boring.

What is this?
Fans can and should engage in modding, but even with the seventh installment, the modding capabilities seem good – so what? If the game doesn't initially appeal to players, no one will create mods for it. And even if they do, no one will play them.
I suspect this is one of the reasons why I haven't played the X series. ;)

Firstly, if the modders for X Rebirth had the same mindset, the game would have suffered the same fate as the seventh installment. In reality, these people saved the game. :smile16:
Secondly, unfortunately, those blessed times when you went to the store, bought a disc, and enjoyed the game are over. Today, you either have to finish developing games or play old ones. Please understand me correctly. I'm also annoyed by all this scam. When you pay 2000 rubles for a raw product, but these are the realities of today.

If the authors of the mods for X Rebirth thought the same way, the game would have suffered the same fate as the seventh installment.

But it didn't, did it?
I can't know the exact number of people playing it; I don't have that information. But, I enter "X rebirth" into Google, and I see 5,800,000 results. I enter "heroes vii," and I see 12,000,000. Heroes 7 -- 19,500,000. Might and magic heroes 7 -- 4,200,000.
Popular Heroes 3 -- 28,000,000 results.
Heroes 4 -- 25 million.
Heroes 5 -- 247 million. Again, two hundred and forty-seven million.
Although heroes 6 gives 208 million, to be fair. Well, you can attribute that to the residual effect of the popularity of previous installments.

Simply put, however you measure the success of a game, I doubt that X rebirth is successful. I'm not saying it's good or bad; that's subjective, but I doubt its popularity. Am I wrong?