TBM - Tournaments balance mod — Mods: Tribes of the East

Remix

8 years ago

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It's no coincidence that the hat includes links to the review. There, we thoroughly analyzed all the changes with detailed explanations.
P.S. For the most attentive, I'll duplicate the links to the reviews: Review of the "Alpha" version of the mod and Review of the "Beta" version of the mod
P.P.S. We talked about the Hunters here: Review of the "Alpha" version of the mod
P.P.P.S. We talked about the league bonuses here: Review of the "Alpha" version of the mod
P.P.P.P.S. We talked about the Druid nerfs here: Review of the "Alpha" version of the mod
P.P.P.P.P.S. We talked about the Mountain Guardians here: Review of the "Alpha" version of the mod
P.P.P.P.P.P.S. You can look for information about the Arkat Dragons anywhere, but not here: Review of the "Alpha" version of the mod
P.P.P.P.P.P.P.S. If you have any further questions, figure out where to look for the answers :)

In reply to Уриэль Септим Х

Nargott

8 years ago

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Uriel Septim X

Yes, as defensive units, minotaurs are quite good (if you need to protect against witches or assassins from larger creatures). On their own, they are weak as guards for mines or passages; it's easy to break through them, but their stats are strong – quite a paradox.

In my opinion, a good defensive unit should at least trade favorably with attackers (i.e., fast units). That is, a unit that attackers might be afraid to engage. A rare example of such a unit is the dwarven warrior.

Minotaurs have weak stats, considering their growth rate. Only their health is decent.

Remix

It's not for nothing that the mod description includes links to the review. There, we analyzed all the changes in detail with detailed explanations.
P.s. For the most attentive, I will duplicate the links to the reviews: Review of the "Alpha" version of the mod and Review of the "Beta" version of the mod

The video review lasts 4 hours, which is a long format and may not suit everyone. Especially for a mod with a relatively small list of changes. If there were a concise text version, that would be nice. But who would bother? :)

In reply to Nargott

Remix

8 years ago

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Nargot, don't you really see all the changes? By the time you wrote this comment, all the changes had already been described. It's not worth jumping to conclusions. And I don't think it's worth judging something before you've heard the arguments from the video review.

In reply to Remix

KillAndAction

8 years ago

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Remix

I don't like the "nerdy" (I can't find another word) nature of playing on standard maps with the TE mod. Instead of trying to convince the rigid TE community to change something in the mod, it's easier to rebalance the original and create my own tournament.

Please express your opinions without using offensive language.
Also, please explain in this thread, not on Skype or elsewhere:
- what "nerdy" means. In TE, there are many tactics and strategies for clearing neutral creatures, as well as regarding playing a specific faction against a specific faction, not to mention against a specific hero.
- what is meant by the term "rigid TE community." The TE mod is periodically updated.
I believe that these interpretations do not reflect reality and mislead the entire community (not just the TE community) regarding Heroes of Might and Magic V.

In reply to Someone Unknown

KillAndAction

8 years ago

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Someone Unknown

(like standard TE tactics using Fire Warriors against Gnomes or Dungeon against Machines).

In TE, no one actually uses these tactics. It's especially unclear why Machines are mentioned for Dungeon.
The mentioned "tactics" are actually used in the original game.

In reply to KillAndAction

KillAndAction

8 years ago

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Regarding this mod: - many of the changes are not immediately clear to me - some of the changes are already present in the game Overall, I would enjoy playing this mod.

In reply to KillAndAction

chudo_ud0

8 years ago

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Overall, the changes are good, and I don't see anything critically wrong at first glance (except for the question about the Hell Horses, but it's not critical since they weren't taken before, and they still won't be taken against all factions except Necropolis, and in terms of breaking through, the red ones lower morale better and enemies don't die from the aura while you're resurrecting the horses). I would like to clarify what exactly is wrong with the current IRMG generator with templates? Or is it about the entry threshold? Personally, I learned in TE that the women shoot with a direct arrow and that the shamans immediately shoot with lightning (there seems to be something similar here), and I started playing, and within the first year, I was playing at a decent level. It is written that the wheel has been reworked in TE, well, if it is not reworked, there will be no balance, and you won't get rid of overpowered units. The same League on BDP or the Silent One for Necropolis... If they removed invisibility from the Hunters (which is correct), then they need to fully understand what and where is overpowered, and not act with half-measures.
P.S. What this mod really lacks is a player base. In TE, you can play with the top Heroes 5 players and test yourself against the best of the best. Most of them came from the standard game and arrived when the level of players was not very high. It's like drinking 20-year-old cognac and cheap liquor from a store. If the "hardcore TE players" who are also the best Heroes 5 players join, then it will be good for the mod.

In reply to chudo_ud0

coldbloodedvlad

8 years ago

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I'm not here to criticize, but to offer suggestions. Partly, these are even wishes.
1. In my opinion, it would be a good idea to increase the HP of Djinn upgrades. I understand that in terms of damage, this is a damage-dealing stack, but in reality, no one ever uses it in that role.
2. I also request that you introduce a notification about the size of crypts, storages, and treasure vaults. I still believe that blindly entering them is foolish and reckless, and wasting a level 6 creature for such purposes is wasteful. If randomness in the game is to be reduced, it should be done in this way, in my opinion.
3. One of the most common reasons for losing in the early and mid-game was the portals between locations. Until the very end, it was unknown who was on the other side of the portal. And it's not always possible to prepare for everything. In my opinion, this is a problem, but I can't find any elegant solution. I would be grateful if you would consider it.

That's all for now.
Sincerely, Vladislav.

Ment

8 years ago

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This isn't an insult, Remix, but Nargott is right; watching a long video analyzing ideas isn't very appealing. If it really does present counterarguments to everything that was said, well, that's good. But a brief summary wouldn't hurt (and those who want more details can watch the video).

In reply to Алексей Кобуров

Magog

8 years ago

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Alexey Koburov

Leaders - change for the sake of change?

Leaders are quite powerful. 4 stacks of 60 leaders and 1-2k serfs can take down thousands of Tier 7 units. The serfs basically turn into a phalanx.

Added 26 minutes ago

Andrail

In my opinion, the following changes are unnecessary:
1) increasing the growth rate of the League
2) removing invisibility from the Hunters
3) infinite flight for the War Griffons
4) Druids: in my opinion, the upgrades are already quite balanced, and this nerfs the higher tiers
4) Mountain Guardians: the Sentinels become even more useless. They have more defense for standing still, so what? Warriors are better.
5) Arcata Dragons: Liquid Flame deals more damage, but it also hits allies... no, no, no
6) Secret Crystal at level 2? If it hasn't been weakened, it's not very good
I also have doubts about the Cyclops, but...
P.S. Why do Seraphs get +1 mana? Did you make Divine Wrath more expensive in terms of mana? Please list the changes to the spells, because it's unclear.

1) This was done to improve the League as a combat unit, not a mage - they have little health.
2) It was too overpowered - you could basically not lose any units and take down everything with invisible Hunters and magic. We balanced them with a stunning attack.
3) The argument is that it should be the same as with the second tier of Griffons - they also fly infinitely.
4) We balanced it because most people play with the higher-tier Druids because they are stronger as both ranged units and support. The Supreme Druids only had a purpose at the beginning. So, we added more variety and choice in gameplay: support vs. ranged unit.
4) Well, we made a clear distinction between an attacking and a defensive upgrade.
5) Well, it was an obvious bug that all units have armor penetration against all targets, except for them.

This is a brief summary from the video.

Magog

8 years ago

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Yeah, nerfing Ini and Time looks better than changing the ability.
Although, it still becomes too overpowered during map exploration. It will be too easy to develop.

In reply to Ment

Remix

8 years ago

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Ment

This isn't an insult, Remix, but Nargott is right; watching a long video analyzing ideas isn't very appealing. If it genuinely presents counter-arguments to everything that was said, well, that's fine. But a brief summary wouldn't hurt (and you can find the details in the video).

I understand that 4 hours is too much for some, but we reviewed all the Factions gradually, as well as the units. For example, we need to find the reasoning behind the changes to the Hunters. We fast-forward to the Shadow League castle, and we reviewed the Hunters in the very beginning; this will take 5 minutes. After reviewing the castles and units, we looked at the spells and then the cost of artifacts. I simply have a structure and logic in my review so that you don't get confused. It's not difficult, but no one even bothered to try to understand; everyone is just criticizing. I don't understand the point of the changes. Okay, if it were like in the Unit Mod, where the author doesn't explain anything, I wouldn't mind. I haven't seen a single mathematical justification from him. In our review, we thoroughly examined each change and explained the logic. Please don't write about the 4 hours; it's not an argument for me. If I were jumping from topic to topic in the review without any structure, then it could be used as an example, but as it is, people just don't want to familiarize themselves with the authors' point of view. They would just write, "I didn't watch the mod review, and I don't need it anyway; I'll just criticize it with MY OWN OPINION."

MoZeS

8 years ago

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Since this thread (besides evaluating this mod) has brought up the topic of identified imbalances and what changes participants would (preferably) like to see, I will also add my observations and suggestions.
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In my opinion, it would be great to create a table showing the addition of a hero's main attributes at each level (based on the stated percentage chance of each attribute appearing). Very often, when playing as mages, I would get significantly more magic than the stated percentage suggests. Or, when playing as necromancers/dark elves, I wouldn't get the +knowledge bonus by level 10.
With a fixed table, you could accurately understand what you will get at each level.

The same applies to skills. If the implementation of the probability of a skill appearing accurately reflected the stated percentage, the game could be DETAILEDLY PLANNED. But now, sometimes you have to take a skill that has already appeared 3 times (but shouldn't have appeared that many times according to the percentage), even though the skill you need should have appeared.

In my opinion, the flawed implementation of the probability of appearance plays a much greater role in the imbalance in the game than an extra unit of speed/initiative, etc., for a unit.

I'll say more: there is a trend towards moving away from randomness even in board games, and Euro-style board games have been increasingly eliminating randomness for about 5 years now.

In reply to KillAndAction

Remix

8 years ago

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Please express yourselves without using offensive language. (c) KillandAction

What exactly bothered you? The word "Zaдротская" (a derogatory term for a hardcore gamer). I think "zaдрот" is an accurate description of a player who plays at a very high level, using specific tactics to preserve individual units and with longer, more calculated moves. Players in the TE (Top Elo) ranking constantly play and improve their game. They can truly be called "zaдроты"; there are words like "professional" or "master of their craft," but they don't accurately convey what this person does. Saying "zaдрот" makes it clear that this is a pro with very unique gameplay methods.
P.S. "Ment" is a moderator, and he didn't say anything to me about this word. I don't think I violated the forum rules; you're just nitpicking at words. People aren't usually banned here for having "their own opinion," as long as it doesn't violate the rules, and I was expressing my opinion, not stating the ultimate truth.
P.P.S. It's a pity that all the TE players still use ICQ; the world is becoming more modern. It's like using pagers in the age of cell phones. No offense, but it's a bit strange. That's why I suggest using modern, popular communication tools like Skype and VK.

In reply to MoZeS

Remix

8 years ago

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MoZeS

In my opinion, it would be great to create a table showing how the hero's primary stats increase at each level (based on the stated percentage chance of each stat appearing). When playing as mages, I often found that I gained significantly more magic than the stated percentage. Or, when playing as necromancers/dark elves, I often didn't get the +knowledge bonus by level 10.

The game has a chance for a particular stat to appear, such as attack, defense, etc. These are listed in the game manual on page 300. For example, at level 21, a mage has: 2 attack, 3 defense, 8 magic, and 12 knowledge. This has all been done before. The fact that these are chances means that they can differ slightly from the stated values; this is probability theory. If you understand this, you won't be surprised by anything. The more you know about the game, the more likely you are to be able to predict whether a skill will work or not, what will appear when leveling up, and whether you will be able to pick up an artifact from a chest, based on the THEORY OF PROBABILITY. If you don't understand the game or are not familiar with this theory, everything will be questionable for you. If you remove the probabilistic elements from the game, it will become boring and will be like a calculator, where everything can be calculated.

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