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h3dm1, in my opinion, was much more playable in The Succession Wars, without a million castles.
Dirty_Player
Posts from Round table
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Dirty_Player
MinasMorgul
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Come on, weren't the new Hives/Griffin Conservatories and their guards (not 4-5 identical units, but a mix from a town) interesting? :)
They are interesting until the first wipe)
On the subject, yesterday I asked one good player for their opinion — it's better to cook up a new template than change an old one (this is very similar to Dirty's opinion); a new template should combine the possibilities of different strategies: 1) rush; 2) spreading out to computers and building a fast Mage Guild, leveling up heroes; 3) devouring objects through a solo main. (If you have ideas, help out, add on). Maybe some points will seem similar to some, but I think the meaning is clear to many.
1) Rush — achieved by a large amount of cannon fodder that can break through strong blocks at the start without major losses, a well-leveled hero (preferably with Logistics/Earth/Offense). Options for cannon fodder: external dwellings, a second native hero's entrance, prisons, refugees, pandora's boxes.
2) Spreading out to computers and building a fast Mage Guild, leveling up heroes — presence of normal roads (no one-way paths), presence of resources behind weak guards, ability to get elements (Conflux), mines.
3) Devouring objects through a solo main — well, nothing to think about here, just the ability to run along a road in one direction and collect objects. This will more likely be influenced by zone density, placement of these objects, or just luck.
All this needs to be fit into XL+U. Honestly, I even like the 8xm12a variant, it's just that many don't like that it has few Utopias, weak guards, and so-so treasure zones often, one-way/four-way paths, but the bonuses in the form of a large number of Griffin Conservatories, free resources, and gold are good.
We need to make a template suitable for all these criteria) let's share our experience.
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Yesterday, I asked a good player for his opinion on the subject: it's better to create a new one than to modify an old one (this is very similar to Dirty's opinion).
Secondly, one doesn't seem to interfere with the other.
Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс
Javdet
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The new towns/hives in the World Tree (WT) on the h3dm1 map looked much more interesting. The game became more vibrant, more diverse, and, most importantly, there were more development options.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:
Зима 2011-12.
Зима 2011-12.
Sanin
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I suggest that fans of HL+U discuss the possibility of creating a template that is more playable than the existing ones.
Can you describe the gameplay of an ideal HL+U? But don't talk about balance, because balance is not determined by the template. I'm interested in what the gameplay should be like: a non-contact game until the fourth week, or, conversely, the possibility of a rush? More resources and mines for building GM or relics on the ground? (or all together) Many development options or a limited number (2-3)?
In my opinion, each HL+U is good in its own way. Creating a new one is a good idea, but I agree with the previous speakers that it should not be a remake of the existing ones, but something unique.
ICQ 423164784
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In my opinion, each hero class is good in its own way.
MinasMorgul
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I think I’ve described the gameplay that everyone probably wants to see – the ability to play using different strategies.
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Could you describe the gameplay of an ideal Heroes of Might and Magic map? But please, don't talk about balance, as balance isn't determined by the map's design. I'm interested in what the gameplay should be like: a non-contact game until the fourth week, or, conversely, the possibility of a rush? More resources and mines for building a GM (Great Mage) or relics on the ground? (or all together) Many development options or a limited number (2-3)?
In my opinion, each Heroes of Might and Magic map is good in its own way. Creating a new one is a good idea, but I agree with the previous speakers that it should not be a remake of existing ones, but something unique.
I'm not setting the task of creating an ideal map; that's why I wrote "more playable than the existing ones." Today, the most playable one is 6LM, and this is not my personal assessment, but a direct consequence of the statistics; it is currently played at least twice as often as any other Heroes of Might and Magic map. At the same time, the map has an obvious drawback – a large percentage of layouts with unplayable paths for one of the players (usually blue). I propose to eliminate this drawback, and nothing more.
Accordingly, regarding the gameplay, I can say that I (and, apparently, not only I) am satisfied with the gameplay of 6LM when it distributes more or less normal paths.
Attempts to create a map for certain strategies do not interest me much due to their low prospects. An example is Spider, which was supposedly created for playing as mages, but in fact, it is rarely played at all, and very rarely by mages in particular.
Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс
Aiwe
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I, for example, really like Spider in terms of gameplay. But the very poor dwellings ruin everything. Copying dwellings from 6LM is not a great idea, and relics from the land don't add to the balance. But making them 5 times stronger would be amazing, not just a template.
Wicc
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Vik didn't show much enthusiasm, simply because Vik has an upcoming release of a template pack in the new HotA format, for which he is considering making some long-overdue changes. And since the exact list of these changes is still being thought over, he isn't rushing with the SoD versions either. But if there is a mass request, it can be sped up.
Specifically on Spider, the following is planned:
- give ordinary zones standard fillings so that Dragon Utopia generate there
- strengthen the passages through which the rest occurs upon meeting up to 9K
- increase the size of treasure rooms
In my opinion, relics on the ground are not needed for Spider.
Regarding HLU in general - in my view, the popularity of lm10 is caused by the fact that fans of sharp contact play have moved to Jeb and Diamond, while those who like to build up until the 2nd month, rebuild Mage Guild, etc., remained on HLU. For these purposes, lm10 is better suited than other HLUs.
Regarding road balance - on the SoD engine, it is achievable only with a tree-like structure ala MiniNosta. Any cycle immediately creates imbalances in roads.
Regarding distribution balance - at the current historical moment, the skill variance among 1600** players is smaller than the variance in distributions; therefore, on non-mirrored templates, the factor of lucky generation affects the outcome of the game much more strongly than it did 5 years ago. So I have no idea how to improve the balance on HLU, unless one draws a mirrored HLU.
I agree with the thought that it is better to draw new templates than to radically remake old ones. I haven't come up with ideas for new HLUs for a long time, because there are already plenty of them. Of the old ideas, only the thought of converting Diamond to HLU comes to mind; there were some difficulties there, I no longer remember which.
Specifically on Spider, the following is planned:
- give ordinary zones standard fillings so that Dragon Utopia generate there
- strengthen the passages through which the rest occurs upon meeting up to 9K
- increase the size of treasure rooms
In my opinion, relics on the ground are not needed for Spider.
Regarding HLU in general - in my view, the popularity of lm10 is caused by the fact that fans of sharp contact play have moved to Jeb and Diamond, while those who like to build up until the 2nd month, rebuild Mage Guild, etc., remained on HLU. For these purposes, lm10 is better suited than other HLUs.
Regarding road balance - on the SoD engine, it is achievable only with a tree-like structure ala MiniNosta. Any cycle immediately creates imbalances in roads.
Regarding distribution balance - at the current historical moment, the skill variance among 1600** players is smaller than the variance in distributions; therefore, on non-mirrored templates, the factor of lucky generation affects the outcome of the game much more strongly than it did 5 years ago. So I have no idea how to improve the balance on HLU, unless one draws a mirrored HLU.
I agree with the thought that it is better to draw new templates than to radically remake old ones. I haven't come up with ideas for new HLUs for a long time, because there are already plenty of them. Of the old ideas, only the thought of converting Diamond to HLU comes to mind; there were some difficulties there, I no longer remember which.
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In my opinion, relics on the ground are not needed for Spider.
Regarding HLU in general – I believe the popularity of LM10 is due to the fact that fans of aggressive, close-quarters combat have moved to Jeb and Diamond, while those who prefer to slowly build up their economy until the second month, rearrange GM, etc., have remained on HLU. LM10 is better suited for these purposes than other HLUs.
Dirty_Player
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Wicc didn't show much enthusiasm; he's just about to release a new pack of templates in the new HotA format, and he's thinking about making some long-overdue changes to it. Since the exact list of these changes is still being considered, he's not in a hurry with the SoD versions. But if there's a strong demand, he can speed things up.
1. Remove schemes with 3 cities from the template pool, as they result in a restart in 99% of games by mutual agreement.
2. Remove one of the two identical, overpowered schemes.
3. Fix the asymmetrical guard placement on one of the schemes (I don't remember which one, but I can clarify if necessary).
4. Add the XL+U format; there was even a text file with similar schemes.
Therefore, I don't know how to improve the balance on XL+U, except perhaps by creating a mirrored XL+U.
Of the old ideas, I remember only the thought of converting Diamond to XL+U; there were some difficulties, but I don't remember what they were.
Also, there was a long-standing idea to create a template that is more G+U or H+U (the next one after XL) or a separate version of Jeb G-U (H-U) with a larger number of cities in the starting and central zones.
Javdet
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- set standard fillings for ordinary zones so that Dragon Utopia units generate there
- strengthen the passages through which rest occurs upon encounter up to 9K
At a glance, here is what will happen in the end: the game will become less varied. It'll be like on same-size maps—a split by zones, and then whoever gets the better luck. Especially if a convenient, beautiful Dragon Utopia arrives.
It can and should be tried, but I fear the main feature of the template will disappear
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:
Зима 2011-12.
Зима 2011-12.
Wicc
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what are the reasons for the changes? and will it ruin the balance?
Off the top of my head, here is what will happen in the end: the game will become less varied. It'll be like on mininost where there's a division by zones, and then whoever gets the better deal. Especially if a convenient, beautiful Dragon Utopia comes along.
It can and should be tried, but I fear the main feature of the template will disappear
9k passages are an obstacle only during the 1st week; from the 2nd week onwards, they don't get in the way.
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It’s worth a try, but I’m afraid the main feature of the template will disappear.
Wicc
- increase the passages through which the rush occurs when meeting, to 9K.
Those who enjoy intense, close-quarters combat have moved to Jeb and Diamond, while those who prefer to grind until the 2nd month remain on HLU, rearranging the GM, etc.
In reality, with the current pace, strong players don’t often reach the 2nd month. This argument reminded me of the debates on HP, when comparing MM6 and CM. Critics of MM6 also claimed that on HLU+, you would have to run around for months.
And in general, if you understand the request and are going to respond specifically to the request, then why leave short passages and practically force “intense, close-quarters combat” on those who, in your opinion, don’t want it? There is a risk that the result will be the same as with the original Spider – just another decent, but not very popular template.
- increase the size of the treasure rooms.
Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс