Posts from Expedition: general discussions. Auto-translated

But on the other hand, if all parameters are needed to some extent, then the usefulness of characters like Augustus or others, whose stats were minimally developed due to their specific role, will decrease. If this is not the case, the player will have to choose between damage and accuracy (to put it simply), which in turn could positively affect the balance and prevent the game from having archers who one-shot enemies or mages who cast three spells per turn until the end of the battle, and so on. Perhaps some will counter others, and so on.

Here, you need to look at a relatively finished version, count, and so on. It's difficult to assess it purely visually.

Guys, maybe we could play one expansion without any system at all? Just role-play a verbal/social/detective story?

Added after 30 seconds
Because, as you can see, this number-crunching only leads to arguments.

I came up with something like this, borrowing from others, but I'm doing it more for myself, and it's clear that there are many difficulties, including with formulas and due to the large number of numbers, so obvious things don't need to be written. I remember Revan's problems with calculations). Well, this is just an example; most likely, something will need to be added or changed because I might have forgotten something.
I wanted to make it so that each of the classes (warrior/archer/mage) has four important parameters, in order to maintain some kind of balance. The others should also be useful, but to a lesser extent. But I don't know how to best improve this without making it more complicated.
Actually, it's that simple; I'm not going to do anything with it. It's just a bit boring without experience points).

Strength:
Might - damage in melee and ranged combat. Just in case there are only bows and ranged weapons in the game.
Endurance - ability to carry more items. This refers to large items, such as weapons or armor. A small bonus so that warriors can carry more loot and, accordingly, earn more money.
Tenacity - chance to block and parry, as well as the chance to break through their defenses. (questionable)

Agility
Reaction - evasion of targeted attacks (fireballs, ranged and melee combat)
Speed - number of tiles per turn

Constitution
Vitality - amount of HP
Resilience - resistance to combat debuffs. This refers to weakening abilities of a physical nature.
Concentration - number of spells used per battle. There is an option to make some kind of limit, like with buying skills for mana points. There are cheap and weak ones, and there are expensive and strong ones. But here it will be almost like mana. Or introduce a fatigue parameter, which reduces the chance of success of the next spell with each spell. It may recover during the battle if turns are skipped. After the battle, it is reset. In the new game, it will be at the initial level. The point is to make this parameter in demand for mages and create a small deterrent for them. Fatigue is disabled outside of battle.

Perception
Accuracy - accuracy of targeted attacks
Dexterity - turn order

Intelligence
Knowledge - mana pool
Wisdom - amount of experience points received. The bonus will not be very large and will additionally give points to characteristics or skills when the character levels up. If warriors carry loot and earn money, then mages gain intellectual benefits.

Willpower
Resistance - resistance to magical debuffs
Magic - magic power

Charisma
Eloquence - favorable prices
Charm - chance to get more money for a quest, acquire useful contacts, find hidden quests. If everything is clear with the first, then the other two points are implemented in a specific way and prepared by the GM in advance. For example, a location called "City" is created, and in specific places, special characters are planned. If a person with high charisma (a specific number) appears there, then a "script" is triggered, and a dialogue begins. The player can talk to the NPC and pass a charisma check, after which he can receive a quest/contact. The check will again be carried out in a specific way, and charisma will give its bonuses. Something like cases where they give an extra die so that it is easier for you to roll the desired number. In fact, you can make the "script" trigger in any case, leaving only the influence of charisma on the chance of a successful result.
Charisma - higher chance of avoiding bad consequences in quests and trouble in the city. Let's remember the situation with Ratislav. Suppose that the player gets into the same unpleasant situation, and here again a charisma check takes place. If the roll is successful, the player safely leaves the dangerous situation.

Luck
Fortune - chance of critical damage in targeted attacks.
Talent - chance to find more money on corpses. You can use the same form as in the case of charisma and receiving additional rewards. Perhaps some other bonuses.

In theory, of course, I could implement all this because I know how, but it would take a lot of time, perseverance, possibly some resources, and a lot of inspiration, which, however, I don't have.

Interesting, but tedious.

Luck

Luck doesn't exist.
Everything else is, more or less, okay, and the idea with charisma is quite good.

Might - damage in melee and ranged combat.

It doesn't seem very logical. It's still unclear whether this will ultimately be more balanced.

Endurance

The restriction on wearing certain weapons and armor can also be included here.

Tenacity

However, it would be better if the chance to hit was presented more attractively. The rest should be moved to perception (and it's generally difficult to incorporate parrying and blocking into such a system).

Reaction

+

Speed

Hmm...

Vitality

+

Resilience

+ (but it would be too tedious to calculate).

Concentration

I remember that one of the expansions had action points. However, they don't really fit into this specific characteristic.

Accuracy

+

Agility

Hmm...

Knowledge

+

Wisdom

It's interesting, of course, but it's quite strange what benefit can be gained from corpses. I would rather change it to something like "warriors have become experienced in battles and know the weak points of enemies, etc., and mages can learn more effectively through scrolls or books," and you could also add intellectual professions here, such as the fact that you can't brew a potion or get lost in the forest without a certain skill level, lol.

Resistance

+

Magic

+ (although mages would again have two parameters in priority).

Eloquence

+

Charm

+ (heh).

Charisma

+ (leadership should also be added here, with some bonuses for the entire squad).

Luck

I partially agree. The problem is that critical hit can easily be converted into regular damage. For example, 10% critical hit is the same as +10% to the character's damage on average, so it doesn't make much sense compared to Might or Magic Power, especially if there are large bonuses there.

Talent

+ (although it's too little for a separate parameter).

Overall, it's not bad, but the first problem with this approach is the complexity of calculations, and the second is that many of the parameters are significantly weaker and less useful than others. Otherwise, it's good.

Strength:
Might - damage in melee and ranged combat.

I like it; they've gotten used to making nimble but weak characters who wouldn't even be able to draw a bow in real life...
Seriously, I've already thought of a system:

Health – a separate stat that determines the amount of health.

Will – effectiveness of earth magic, number of AP (action points), strength. The latter is needed differently for different weapons: it has a greater impact on two-handed weapons, a lesser impact on bows, but it does have an impact.
Life – effectiveness of fire magic, number of MP (movement points), damage resistance
Reaction – effectiveness of air magic, evasion, initiative
Concentration – effectiveness of water magic, accuracy (melee and ranged combat), resistance to negative effects (reduction of AP, MP, various paralysis and other debuffs)

Here are some comments: evasion is primarily about reducing the minimum damage that an opponent can inflict with an attack. Completely ignoring damage is only possible if the minimum damage is zero, which is possible for opponents with low accuracy or if you have high evasion. Additional points in evasion thus increase the probability of this "critical miss." Advantage: characters with normal evasion and accuracy will not ignore damage every other hit.
I haven't decided about damage resistance yet... It would be good to give resistance to an absolute amount of damage for a greater difference from evasion (which reduces the minimum damage by percentage). But most likely, it will also be in percentages, otherwise it will be difficult to balance. Absolute damage will definitely be reduced by armor (it's especially difficult to break through bronze plate armor with a stone dagger).
By the way, I decided to abandon mana for simplicity. There will just be action points.

Last night I was in a bad mood... So I sketched out a new system from scratch since I didn't want to do anything else. Stats and, as an option, default classes + faction class; in this case Alairon's, but ideally they were intended for each.
I didn't add the Mage because they should have a slightly different gameplay than usual, considering the specifics of the setting at the moment.

There are intended to be "many" characteristics, as it is easier to implement many things that way. Checks are passed on the same principle as accuracy, evasion, etc. That is, for example, in the case of a disease, a roll for difficulty and resistance will be made.

Strength
+1% melee damage
+2% melee critical hit damage
+1 to indomitability (resistance to slow and paralysis effects).

Constitution
+10 health
+1 endurance (check)
+1 resistance to diseases and poisons

Dexterity
+1 accuracy (melee)
+1 evasion (melee)
+1 agility (check)

Perception
+1 accuracy (ranged attacks)
+1 evasion (ranged attacks)
+1 own observation (chance to detect a hidden enemy)

Speed
+0.1 movement speed
+1 initiative
+1 reflexes (check)

Intelligence
+1 initiative
+1 magic accuracy
-0.35% spell cost
+0.5% critical damage chance.

Will
+1 magic power
+1 magic resistance
+1 to will checks

Wisdom
+3% experience gained.
+0.5% elemental resistance.

Charisma
+1% profit from selling items.
+2% income from completing contracts.

Warrior
Combat Training
+4 health for each unit of constitution.

Combat Training II (^Combat Training)
+4 health for each unit of constitution.

Heavy Armor Proficiency (^Combat Training)
Removes movement speed penalty.

Crossbowman (^Combat Training)
The character is trained to use crossbows.

Aimed Shot (^Crossbowman)
+40% armor penetration.

Archer (^Combat Training)
The character is trained to use bows.

Aimed Shot (^Archer)
+(perception*1.5)% damage.

Reconnaissance (^Combat Training)
Ability to quickly gather information about the surrounding area.

Espionage (^Reconnaissance)
+2 movement speed.
+0.5 stealth for each unit of dexterity.

Operationality (^Reconnaissance; ^Crossbowman or Archer)
The character gains the ability to move before shooting.

Melee Skills (^Combat Training)
The character is trained to use classic melee weapons and has no penalties.

Weapon Mastery (^Melee Skills)
+20% critical damage chance for the selected weapon type; such critical hits can paralyze the enemy, pierce their armor and resistances, or cause bleeding.

Combat Mastery (^Melee Skills)
+40% melee damage

Dexterity (^Combat Training)
+0.4 accuracy (melee) and evasion for each unit of constitution.

Balance (^Dexterity)
+0.6 magic resistance and will checks for each unit of constitution.

Combat Experience (^Dexterity)
Damage received is 12% lower.

Thrown Weapons (^Combat Training)
The character can use thrown weapons without penalties.

Two-Handed Weapon Mastery(^Combat Training)
+4 health for each unit of strength.

Two-Handed Weapon Mastery II(^Two-Handed Weapon Mastery)
+1 accuracy for each unit of strength.

Two-Handed Weapon Mastery III(^Two-Handed Weapon Mastery II)
Strength is added to weapon damage.

Cleave (^Two-Handed Weapon Mastery)
Strength/4=chance to deal triple damage to the enemy.

Concussion (^Two-Handed Weapon Mastery)
Strength/3=chance to paralyze the enemy.

Arc (^Two-Handed Weapon Mastery II)
Active skill. Accuracy -20%. Cooldown: 2 turns.

Execution (^Two-Handed Weapon Mastery III)
Active skill. Accuracy -35%, weapon damage+(Strength*5)% on the next hit. Cooldown: 5 turns.

One-Handed Weapon Mastery (^Combat Training)
The character can parry an enemy's melee attack. The check is made before the evasion roll and is calculated from the character's accuracy.

One-Handed Weapon Mastery II(^One-Handed Weapon Mastery)
Additional attack.
+10 initiative.

One-Handed Weapon Mastery III(^One-Handed Weapon Mastery II)
Additional attack.
Accuracy +35%
+10 initiative.

Duelist (^One-Handed Weapon Mastery II)
Accuracy and evasion in one-on-one combat are twice as high

Light Step (^One-Handed Weapon Mastery I)
+4 movement speed

Reflexes (^One-Handed Weapon Mastery III)
+0.8 evasion for each unit of dexterity.

Shield Mastery (^Combat Training)
The character can use shields without penalties.

Ambidexterity (^One-Handed Weapon Mastery III)
The character can use a weapon in each hand.
Accuracy -20.

Ranger
Ranger Craft
Ability to quickly gather information about the surrounding area.

Ranger Craft II (^Ranger Craft)
+3 health and 0.5 evasion for each unit of constitution.

Ranger Craft III (^Ranger Craft II)
Each unit of intelligence adds +5% to experience gained and increases the chance of detecting an invisible enemy by 1

Ranger Wisdom (^Ranger Craft III)
Each unit of wisdom increases the accuracy parameter by 1

Camouflage (^Ranger Craft)
+1 stealth for each unit of dexterity.

Camouflage II (^Ranger Craft II)
+2.5 stealth for each unit of dexterity as long as the character does not perform other actions (does not stack with the first-level camouflage bonus).

Melee Skills (^Ranger Craft)
The character can use swords (including two-handed), knives, etc., without penalties.

Melee Skills II (^Melee Skills)
+6 strength, +6 dexterity, +6 constitution

Melee Skills III (^Melee Skills II)
In case of a block or parry, the character makes an additional accuracy roll.

Dodge (^Melee Skills III)
Evasion is doubled

Sprint (^Ranger Craft III)
Movement speed is doubled out of combat and increased by 1.5 times during battle.

Shooting (^Ranger Craft)
The character is trained in bow shooting.

Shooting II(^Ranger Craft)
+1% damage for each unit of wisdom.

Expert (^Shooting)
Additional attack

Eagle Eye (^Shooting)
Shooting range x2

Deadly Shot (^Shooting)
Perception/4=deal triple damage to the enemy when shooting from a bow.

Stunning Shot (^Shooting)
Active skill. On hit, paralyzes the target for one turn, deals 165% damage. Cannot deal critical damage. Cooldown: 4

Covering Fire (^Shooting)
The character makes 12 shots at enemies in front of them (7). They are distributed randomly and deal 15% damage, while having a 25% chance to slow, immobilize, or paralyze the enemy. Cooldown: 6
.
Sight (^Shooting)
The character skips a turn so that the next shot deals twice as much damage, piercing (perception/2)% of the enemy's armor.

Sight II (^Sight)
The character skips two turns so that the next shot deals four times more damage, piercing (perception/2)% of the enemy's armor. The critical damage chance for this shot is increased by (perception/4)%

Immobilizing Shot (^Shooting)
Active skill. On hit, paralyzes the target for one turn, deals only 40% damage. Cannot deal critical damage. Cooldown: 1

Shattering Shot (^Shooting)
Deals (perception/3)% damage of the target's current health, after which normal damage is dealt. Cannot deal critical damage. Cooldown: 6.

Mercenary
Weapon Mastery — Bludgeoning Weapons
No penalties, paralysis on attack.
Weapon Mastery — Piercing Weapons
No penalties, penetration (strength)% of armor and other types of defenses.
Weapon Mastery — Slashing Weapons
No penalties, damage doubled.
Weapon Mastery — Bow
No penalties, arrows set the enemy on fire; they take (perception/4)% fire damage from their current health.
Weapon Mastery — Crossbow
No penalties, immobilization on attack (perception%)
Weapon Mastery — Firearms
No penalties.
Weapon Mastery — Polearms
+1 attack range; automatic attack against an enemy attempting to approach the character. Combines with piercing and slashing weapon mastery effects.
Bleeding
The character's melee attacks wound the enemy, forcing them to lose 5% of current health per turn.
Assault
A successful melee attack on a character reduces their movement speed by 8 for one turn.
Strength
+15 strength
Dexterity
+15 dexterity
Perception
+15 perception
Speed
+15 speed
Constitution
+15 constitution
Business Approach
+4% bonus from contracts for each unit of charisma.
Crippling Strike
Melee only. The character who receives this strike loses 10 accuracy, 10 reaction, or 2 speed until they are healed. Accuracy on hit -15, cooldown: 1.
Double Shot
The character uses two arrows simultaneously, and can choose different targets.
Second Wind
When the character's health drops below zero (but not lower than % constitution), they restore 20% health and can continue the fight. Once per battle.
Affinity
+50% resistance to a chosen element
Aimed Shot
The character's attacks using firearms, bows, and crossbows have a chance to disarm the enemy (25%) or kill them instantly (10%). Does not work against enemies using heavy armor. With more than one shot per turn, the probability of the skill triggering decreases.
Expert — Traps
Observation for detecting traps is twice as high. Traps set by the character are twice as hard to notice.
Cheating
In gambling games, the character can reroll their result or their opponent's result.

Knight
Enhanced Training
+6 health for each unit of constitution.

Enhanced Training II (^Enhanced Training)
+6 health for each unit of constitution

Enhanced Training III (^Enhanced Training II)
Crit against self (chance) -15%, critical hits against self deal only half the additional damage.

Melee Skills (^Enhanced Training)
The character is trained to use classic melee weapons and has no penalties.

Heavy Armor Proficiency (^Enhanced Training)
Removes movement speed penalty.

Heavy Armor Proficiency II (^Enhanced Training II and Heavy Armor Proficiency)
When using heavy armor, final damage to the character is reduced by 14%

Heavy Armor Proficiency III (^Heavy Armor Proficiency II and Enhanced Training III)
When using heavy armor, final damage to the character is reduced by 14%

Shield Mastery (^Heavy Armor Proficiency)
The character can use shields without penalties.

Shield Mastery II (^Heavy Armor Proficiency II)
Block chance is 35% higher.

Shield Bash (^Shield Mastery)
Paralyzes the enemy

Pride of the Griffin (^Shield Mastery II)
Block chance is 35% higher.

Fury of the Griffin (^Shield Mastery II)
The character responds to all attacks

Dragon Health (^Enhanced Training II)
Character health +35%

Steel Will (^Enhanced Training II)
Each unit of strength increases the chance not to succumb to negative effects by 1%

Escort (^Shield Mastery II)
The character takes ranged attacks directed through cells around them.

Unstoppability (^Enhanced Training III)
Immunity to movement-slowing effects

Regeneration (^Enhanced Training III)
The character restores 12% health at the start of their turn

Resistance(^Unstoppability)
Elemental resists constitution/2

Challenge (^Unstoppability)
A chosen enemy must attack the character for four turns, provided it is possible. Cooldown: 6 turns.

Assassin
Assassin Craft
+1.5 stealth for each unit of dexterity. The character can use any one-handed weapon without penalty.

Assassin Craft II (^Assassin Craft)
Stealth attacks always deal critical damage.

Assassin Craft III (^Assassin Craft II)
Critical attacks ignore enemy armor.

Agility (^Assassin Craft II)
Each unit of dexterity increases the evasion parameter by 1.

Shooting (^Assassin Craft)
Ability to use bows and crossbows.

Shooting II (^Shooting)
Shooting range from bows and crossbows is 1.5 times higher.

Shooting III (^Shooting II)
+(perception)% accuracy when shooting from bows and crossbows.

Shooting IV (^Shooting III)
+(perception)% final damage when shooting from bows and crossbows.

Finishing Blow (^Assassin Craft II)
Attacks deal additional damage depending on the enemy's lost health (4% damage per 1% health).

Double Strike (^Assassin Craft)
Active skill. The character delivers two hits to a target. If the first attack hit the target, the second will deal twice as much damage. Cooldown: 2 turns.

Sleeping Strike (^Assassin Craft III)
Active skill, accuracy on strike +80%. Paralyzes the target until they pass a check or take damage. Cooldown: 3 turns.

Deep Cut(^Assassin Craft II)
Active skill. Deals 500% weapon damage to the enemy. Cannot deal critical damage. Cooldown: 5 turns.

Blinding Strike(^Assassin Craft III)
Active skill. Accuracy on strike -45%, if successful, drops the character's accuracy and evasion to four units. This skill deals no damage. Cooldown: once per battle.

Hunter (^Assassin Craft)
The character chooses a target and can move toward them 2.5 times faster. Cooldown: once per battle.

Thrown Weapons (^Assassin Craft)
The character can use thrown weapons without penalties.

Fade into Shadow (^Assassin Craft II)
The character makes a stealth roll. Cooldown: 4 turns.

Assassin's Dexterity (^Assassin Craft III)
+22 dexterity.

Smile of Death (^Assassin Craft III)
6% chance to kill the target instantly with any attack

Assassin Skills (^Assassin Craft)
+10 accuracy, +5 movement speed, +10 magic resistance.

Bounty Hunter (^Assassin Craft)
+4% bonus from contracts for each unit of wisdom

Servant of Havellus
Martial Craft
The character is trained to use classic melee and ranged weapons.

Martial Craft II (^Martial Craft)
+4 to all characteristics.

Martial Craft III (^Martial Craft II)
Opens access to studying advanced techniques.

Aggressiveness (^Martial Craft III)
+40% accuracy and +30% evasion in melee when using a one-handed weapon.

Suppressive Fire (^Martial Craft III)
Bows and crossbows only. The character's next attack will deal no damage to the enemy, but will force them to skip a turn. Cooldown: 2 turns.

Unwaveringness (^Martial Craft III)
+360 health units.
Might of the King of Warriors (^Martial Craft III)
+50% melee damage for two-handed weapons.

Champion's Dexterity (^Martial Craft III)
+33% chance to paralyze the enemy with each hit from a polearm.

Leadership
Allies' health increases by (charisma)%.

Leadership II (^Leadership)
Melee damage dealt by allies increases by (charisma)%.

Leadership III (^Leadership II)
Magic resistance and indomitability of allies increase by (charisma)%.

Leadership IV (^Leadership III)
Evasion and accuracy of allies increase by (charisma/1.5)%.

Lion's Roar (^Leadership III)
The character paralyzes enemies around them (5x5)
Cooldown: 4 turns

Morale (^Leadership II)
Movement speed of allies increases by (charisma)%. Cooldown: 4

Retreat (^Leadership I)
Movement speed and initiative of allies are doubled, but evasion is also halved. After starting the retreat, the character cannot return to battle.

Regarding your posts above: the overall picture will, of course, become clear only after reviewing the abilities and skills, but at first glance, the set of characteristics proposed by Arandor appeals to me much more than Ment's.

I like it; otherwise, they keep making agile weaklings who wouldn't even be able to draw a bow in real life...
Seriously, I've already devised a system:

Health – a separate stat that determines the amount of health.

Will – effectiveness of earth magic, number of Action Points (AP), strength. The latter is needed differently for different weapons: it has a greater impact on two-handed weapons, a lesser impact on bows, but it does have an impact.
Life – effectiveness of fire magic, number of Movement Points (MP), damage resistance
Reaction – effectiveness of air magic, evasion, initiative
Concentration – effectiveness of water magic, accuracy (melee and ranged combat), resistance to negative effects (reduction of AP, MP, various paralysis and other goodies)

Here are some comments: evasion is primarily about reducing the minimum damage that an opponent can inflict with an attack. Completely ignoring damage is only possible if the minimum damage is zero, which is possible for opponents with low accuracy or if you have high evasion. Additional points in evasion thus increase the probability of this "critical miss." Advantage: characters with normal evasion and accuracy will not ignore damage every other hit.
I haven't decided about damage resistance yet... It would be good to give resistance to an absolute amount of damage for a greater difference from evasion (which reduces the minimum damage in percentage terms). But most likely, it will also be in percentage terms; otherwise, it will be difficult to balance. Absolute damage will definitely be reduced by armor (you can't easily break through a bronze plate armor with a stone knife).
By the way, I decided to abandon mana for simplicity. There will just be Action Points.

LUL

Wisdom
+3% to experience gained.
+0.5% to elemental resistance.

Long live the wise Xelors, heh.
Revan said he threw away the setting, but he has the most detailed system of all... Talent can't be wasted.

At first glance, the set of characteristics proposed by Arandor appeals to me much more than Ment's.

You just like a lot of major stats... My experience shows that it is better to put all effects into a smaller number of stats, thus achieving better real variability. For example, I don't like the separation of accuracy (ranged and melee) into two stats: we get a similar effect, but archers increase perception, and melee fighters increase dexterity. As a result, one stat is useful, and the other is useless, or vice versa. Or you can create a hybrid, but in reality, you can't, because it will be weak everywhere.
The separation of evasion is even worse in my opinion. Dexterous characters who dodge a million dagger attacks per minute, but freeze when they see a flying arrow...
My idea is that all stats are useful to some extent for everyone, the question is only in what proportion they will be better.
And it should be noted that all these stats are not directly increased, only through skills and level-ups.

LUL

M?

By the way, concentration is also critical hits, because accuracy increases the minimum damage (reduces the spread, in contrast to evasion, which reduces it). The occurrence of maximum damage is also taken into account and may also give bonuses.

Someone, stop them...

Someone, stop them...

) No, that's it, after the discussion and revealing our strategies, we'll go all the way to victory...