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Posts from 2016 Winter Tournament: "Frozen Heart" Auto-translated

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In reply to KillAndAction
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#152
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I was drunk, if necessary, ban me. I apologize to everyone. ((
If needed, I'm ready to stream with my desktop visible, no questions asked.
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#153
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I think that a stream showing the workspace (to eliminate unnecessary suspicions and questions) and a tech pause (at the judge's discretion) is a perfectly reasonable solution for the time being.
Стримы HMM5 на полных картах мод TE:
ru.twitch.tv/noom11

Alex_nv - draw - Vovan112013 летос 236

alex_nv wrote: Наконец то нормальная игра с открытием половины карты.
In reply to Noom
#154
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The fact of a blatant violation is evident! 1. Within the framework of this tournament, player Moz receives a warning! Also, each of his opponents in the first three rounds has the right to demand that Moz be awarded a technical loss within the time limit until the end of the 4th round. Based on his gameplay, I will not demand a technical loss; I am interested in playing. I believe that the very fact of announcing such a blunder will be the strongest punishment for Moz! I don't want to lose a strong player. We cannot force Moz to stream one way or another; it is a voluntary matter. But I think he will do everything possible to avoid future suspicions!
In reply to Vip.rus
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#155
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ready to play right now.
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
Сервер в Discord
Стрим на twitch.tv
Стрим на GG

ЛИДЕР Клана"ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Рейтинг: Латник
Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"
In reply to KillAndAction
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#156
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KillAndAction
ready to play right now.
I suggested possible days for playing via ICQ, and you seemed to agree on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Sunday. Okay, I'm ready to play right now.
In reply to chudo_ud0
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#157
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chudo_ud0
I suggested possible days for playing in ICQ, and you seemed to agree: Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Sunday. Okay, I'm ready to play right now.
I plan to play today around 9 PM Moscow time.
Yesterday, I was online in the evening.
ICQ probably wasn't working again, as I was writing to you about being ready to play...
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
Сервер в Discord
Стрим на twitch.tv
Стрим на GG

ЛИДЕР Клана"ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Рейтинг: Латник
Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"
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#158
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Another situation involving a violation of tournament rules in the Moz-Bolivar match:
5. In case of a disconnection or game crash, the last autosave is loaded, and players are required to exactly repeat all their moves up to the point of disconnection or game crash.

After Bolivar crashed on turn 145 and after loading, Moz took a different unit as his main hero. I believe that a deliberate violation of the tournament rules immediately after a serious violation is unacceptable.
Стримы HMM5 на полных картах мод TE:
ru.twitch.tv/noom11

Alex_nv - draw - Vovan112013 летос 236

alex_nv wrote: Наконец то нормальная игра с открытием половины карты.
In reply to Noom
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#159
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Noom
Another situation involving a violation of the tournament rules in the Moz-Bolivar match:
5. In the event of a disconnection or game crash, the last autosave is loaded, and players must exactly repeat all their moves up to the point of disconnection or game crash.

After Bolivar crashed on turn 145 and after loading, Moz took a different creature as his main hero. I think that deliberately violating the tournament rules immediately after a serious violation is unacceptable.

I'd like to add my two cents on this issue.
without directly referring to the situation described above

I believe that the rule about replaying the entire game has long been outdated and needs to be revised; it is declarative and obsolete.
Recently, there was a lot of lobbying regarding loading saves, and as a result, it was discussed quite extensively.
During this discussion, even based on the average statement, I think we can conclude:
that after a "requested" load, the passive side is almost always the one who suffers.
and in the case of an "unrequested" ("fair") load, the suffering side will almost always be present, especially
if, in fact, it is not that fair (but this case is not within the scope of what I want to propose).

so, we can apply this to a more general case by revising this rule:
I see it this way, and it will correlate very well with the rules of, for example, the RTA.

after a crash, each side must repeat the actions (moves) that led to the direct interaction of the opposing armies, namely: upgrading, equipped artifacts,
the composition of the army on the hero/creature, the armies deployed for the battle, and the actions in the battle.
all other actions, the player is free to optimize (i.e., redo).


this will be controllable and fair to both sides of the load (while remembering that the person requesting the load will definitely redo something in their turn, whether hidden or explicit),
and especially in light of the recent situation with open cheating, which showed how fragile
our community is, based on faith in the honesty of its members.
In reply to Noom
#160
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Noom
Another situation involving a violation of tournament rules in the Moz-Bolivar match:
5. In the event of a disconnection or game crash, the last autosave is loaded, and players are required to exactly repeat all their moves up to the point of disconnection or game crash.

After Bolivar crashed on turn 145, and after loading, Moz took a different unit as his main hero. I think that deliberately violating the tournament rules immediately after a serious violation is unacceptable.
Clarify, was the discrepancy after the crash or after the load? Is there a recording of the stream?
I also, like Dwp, believe that repeating the move after loading is not necessary, and this doesn't even contradict the rules in their current wording.
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#161
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After the crash and reload, different objects were taken (let's say object A was taken before the crash, and after the crash, object B was taken instead of object A). I don't think this is normal, as it's incorrect to change the order of actions after loading based on information obtained during the actions before the crash.
PS. I was mistaken, and this happened in a game in the Losers League, not in Cold as Ice.
Стримы HMM5 на полных картах мод TE:
ru.twitch.tv/noom11

Alex_nv - draw - Vovan112013 летос 236

alex_nv wrote: Наконец то нормальная игра с открытием половины карты.
#162
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I agree with the need to make changes – I believe that only the direct interaction with the opponent should be repeated. I think that the spell generation mechanism in Heroes of Might and Magic is implemented according to the same principle as the hero generation in the tavern for offline mode – when generating a hero's name, the remaining movement points and the level of the heroes already present are taken into account, i.e., when generating a spell, the remaining movement points of the heroes of both players and their level are taken into account – completely synchronously, so that it will never be repeated for both players. That is, after a crash, we stare at the screen for three minutes, and if the opponent has leveled up, we have a chance to get Archons in the Crypt instead of Seraphs, or Vengeance in Heroes of Might and Magic instead of Resurrection.
In reply to Noom
#163
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Noom
After the crash and reload, other actions were taken (let's say, before the crash, action A was taken, and after the crash, action B was taken instead of action A). I don't think this is normal, because after loading a save, changing the order of actions based on information obtained during the actions before the crash is incorrect.
PS. I had a glitch, and this was a game in the Losers League, not Cold Hearth.
Exactly, this tournament isn't ours.
Let Moz ban himself!)

Added 13 minutes ago
dwp1970
I'll add my 3.5 cents to this.
without directly referring to the situation described above

I think that the rule about replaying the entire game has long been outdated and needs to be revised; it's declarative and obsolete.
Recently, there was a lot of lobbying regarding save games, and as a result, it was discussed quite extensively.
During this discussion, even based on the average statement, I think we can conclude:
that after a "requested" save game, the passive side is almost always the one who suffers.
and in the case of an "unrequested" ("fair") save game, the suffering side will almost always be present, especially
if, in fact, it's not that fair (but this case is not within the scope of what I want to propose).

so, we can apply this to a more general case by revising this rule:
I see it this way, and it will correlate very well with the rule of the same RTA, for example.

after a crash, each side must repeat the actions (moves) that led to the direct interaction of the opposing armies, namely: upgrades, equipped artifacts,
the army composition on the hero/object, the armies deployed for the battle, and the actions in the battle itself.
all other actions, the player is free to optimize (i.e., redo).


this will be controllable and fair to both sides of the save game (while remembering that the requester of the save game, whether hidden or explicit, will definitely redo something in their turn),
and especially in light of the recent situation with open cheating, which showed how fragile
our Community is, based on faith in the honesty of its partners.
I believe that the current interpretation of the rule already doesn't prevent players from making any moves they want after a save game; the rule doesn't even mention save games, but only crashes!
However, repeating the moves after a crash, in my opinion, is mandatory; it's a shame that it's not always possible to verify. As an example, I'll give a situation that is quite possible. Player A attacked a guard, but during the battle, realized that they couldn't win, and then, crash:( But if this zone is also controlled by Player B, then Player A must attack the same guard again.

However, I would like to hear more opinions on this. If people think that it's time to make changes to this point, I will generally agree
In reply to Vip.rus
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#164
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Let's be honest, not everyone strictly follows the rule about repeating turns. I think the rules should be adjusted. Immediately after a crash or loading a save, the opponent can insist on repeating turns (I sometimes do this if I see an enemy hero moving). And turns should "definitely" be repeated if it involves interactions between heroes. For example, if a hero "teleports" under an enemy hero by passing through a portal, in this case, he must repeat the turn and "teleport" again. However, if he loads a save at this point, meaning he lost a lot of troops on that portal, then as an option, he should position himself under the portal on the other side and pass the turn.
In reply to chudo_ud0
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#165
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chudo_ud0
Let's be honest, not everyone actually follows this rule about repeating moves.
I absolutely don't understand this position. The logical position is that if there's a connection break or a client crash, the game state should revert to the point of the interruption. I don't understand why one of the players should be allowed to proceed differently. Even more incomprehensible are arguments like "well, you can't check it" - should we allow opening tournament saves based on these arguments?
Стримы HMM5 на полных картах мод TE:
ru.twitch.tv/noom11

Alex_nv - draw - Vovan112013 летос 236

alex_nv wrote: Наконец то нормальная игра с открытием половины карты.
In reply to Noom
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#166
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Noom
I absolutely don't understand this position. The logical position is that when the connection is lost or the client crashes, the game state should revert to the point of the disconnection. I don't understand why one of the players should be able to proceed differently. Even more incomprehensible are arguments like "it can't be checked" - should we allow opening tournament saves based on these arguments?
Several players are suggesting a change in the rules format; what's not clear about that?