Posts from BLITZ TOURNAMENT
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I consider these features, not bugs, and I don't care what version of the game you have.
Added after 3 minutes
5. The use of any cheats and bugs in a clean playthrough is prohibited. The result will be annulled.
i.e., the following is prohibited:
- using navigation bonuses on land.
If a tournament participant discovers a potential bug, any flaw in the tournament map, or other issues that were not specified in the tournament rules and as a result of which the tournament participant gains an obvious advantage over those tournament participants who, for various reasons, did not use the aforementioned game features (maps), they must обязательно ask the tournament organizer in a private message about the possibility or impossibility of using them.
The degree of obviousness of such issues will be determined by the tournament organizer, because without a final authority, it will not be possible to avoid disputes.
I ask the esteemed Kyle to move my post to the "Tournament Matters" section, but only after some time has passed. You understand that the discussion is most active here, and a dose of cold water wouldn't hurt.
I want to participate in the blitz tournament.
You can consider this a feature or something else, but there are rules. And many people are not happy with something, but since you expressed a desire to participate, please follow the rules. And personally, I don't care which version anyone plays, as long as everyone is on equal footing.
Added 3 minutes ago
This is how it was!
Added 6 minutes ago
Since it is often very difficult, and sometimes practically impossible, to foresee everything in Heroes III (this applies more to the specifics of tournament maps), I suggest that, starting with the next tournament, the following point be included in the tournament rules:
If a tournament participant discovers a potential bug, any flaw in the tournament map, and other moments that were not specified in the tournament rules and as a result of which the tournament participant gains an obvious advantage over those tournament participants who, for various reasons, did not use the above-mentioned game (map) features, they must обязательно ask the tournament organizer in a private message about the possibility or impossibility of using them.
The degree of obviousness of these moments will be determined by the tournament organizer, because without a final authority, it will not work.
:) Okay, it seems my colleague doesn't understand, so I'll try again:
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Using navigation bonuses implies getting into a boat and getting out of it to increase the MP reserve (in my opinion, this is no longer present in SoD 3.2). If a player uses a boat to move between islands (or sections of the same island that are closer by water than by land), this is not considered exploiting a bug.
In any case, if there is any (justified) reason to use a boat, it is not prohibited.
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And here is an explanation of this point (which you cited in your post) at the request of VDV. And after that, we play according to the rules, but with more detailed and clarified explanations. So, next time, if there are no changes in the rules, I advise you to play on version 3.0 :)
Added 6 minutes ago
I am against this point in the form you proposed. It turns out that during the tournament, it is forbidden to discuss the tournament. And therefore, the decision to allow this trick as a feature or prohibit it as a bug will be made by a limited number of people, namely the organizer. This won't work!! Let's do it this way: since the rules do not prohibit it, it is allowed. And the participant who has discovered an advantage quietly and peacefully finishes the tournament, and after the tournament, he honestly announces the trick that he discovered and used because it was not prohibited. After that, the whole group decides what to do with this trick in the future, and the organizers quickly change the rules depending on the decision made by the group. Or is democracy canceled? :)
To be honest, I think the same way (partially).
The rules prohibit the use of bugs, but then list these bugs and explain what they consist of (otherwise, in one case you used a bug, and in another, a feature).
And if something new is discovered, something previously unknown that gives a huge advantage, please prohibit it by making changes to the rules.
In my example:
I think that NO ONE, including myself, knew about the possibility of getting a lot of movement points using a hat (I accidentally discovered it, and if I had known it initially, I would have won by a large margin). Everything "started" (and not from the person I expected) only after my post with a description, and after a considerable time: they say they knew, but dismissed this option as "incorrect," and the results obtained were highlighted in large font and red color. Why didn't they ask the host in a private message right away? And the saves were suddenly lost somewhere, but at the same time, they remember by heart the gold earned - every last penny...
Let's just call me a cheater...
P.S. They did come to their senses a little later...
2 Kyle
I hope there is no need for me to provide a description? The desire has simply been killed...
Added 38 minutes ago
Not to argue. It is clear that in order to decipher a bug, it must be very well studied and all aspects of its manifestation must be considered...
It is much easier to simply prohibit "the use of navigation bonuses on land" and that's it, and then attribute anything to this category, don't you think... :D
That's essentially what I wanted to say:D
To be honest, I think the same way (partially).
The rules prohibit using bugs, but then you need to clearly define what these bugs are (otherwise, it turns out that in one case you used a bug, and in another, a feature).
I think that NO ONE, including me, knew about the possibility of getting a lot of movement points with the help of a hat (I accidentally discovered it, and if I had known it initially, I would have won by a large margin).
If a hero's army has one green dragon and the hero exchanges it with the Seer for money, does the hero remain without an army? Is this allowed???
The rules prohibit using bugs, but then specify what these bugs are, i.e., what they consist of (otherwise it turns out that in one case you used a bug, and in another, a feature). And if something new is discovered, previously unknown and giving a huge advantage, please ban it by making changes to the rules.
Let's say - if the rules do not prohibit it, then it is allowed. And the participant who found an advantage quietly plays through the tournament, but after the tournament, he honestly announces the trick that he discovered and applied because it was not prohibited. After that, everyone decides what to do with this trick in the future, and the organizers quickly change the rules depending on the decision made by everyone. Or has democracy been canceled? :)
I don't think it's necessary to respond to Radik's insult with my own. But I do think it's important to explain something, or rather, clarify something to Radik (he should now be the one explaining) in light of his post, considering that, despite everything, I am on his side.
By the way, I learned about this game mechanic while playing the First Blood map, and I told you and Sanek about it (Sanek remembers, if that's relevant).
Why didn't I point it out during the tournament? But it's obvious that it's wrong when a hero transfers movement points from sea to land. In any case, it was obvious to me. Now it turns out that this needed to be explicitly stated in the rules. I assumed that the ban already existed, and why emphasize it (including the tournament organizer)?
The result I highlighted in red, as a potential way to gain gold, came from adding to my final result what I failed to achieve. Of course, I can't remember it myself, and besides, I didn't fully complete it at the time (but I did see what Sylvia could do), and I had a clear picture of what would happen in that scenario.
So, what other separate arguments do you have?
I think that's all. If you come up with anything else, ask. The forum is the place to present our relationship for everyone to see.
P.S. I initiated this because I wanted to finally clarify the rules, and Radik is not really involved here, especially since I don't get anything out of it. There is a lot of resentment.
to IronAxe, AmberSoler. Let's say I earned 146,000 gold. What should I do according to your scenario (there is a different interpretation of the rules)?
The phrase about the player's property was especially interesting.
I think many people should express their opinion about introducing or not introducing the rule I proposed before making any constructive decision.
Here is a small addition to my proposal:
If the tournament organizer detects the above, additions will be made to the tournament rules. The duration of the tournament may be extended in such circumstances (if there is little time left before the end of the tournament, and the results need to be corrected due to the introduction of a new rule).
Quote:
Boots and gloves increase (for calculation purposes) the base movement points by one and a half times their bonus, i.e., boots by 600 mp, and gloves by 300 mp, thereby significantly reducing the coefficient K. If the hero manages not to take them off when boarding a boat, then the increase in movement points will ultimately lead to a loss of 37% of sea movement. The opposite is also true – if you put them on before disembarking, this increase will give us 58% of free movement out of thin air! That's where the bug lies.
And I was racking my brain, wondering why, in one playthrough, Sylvia had half of her movement points left, and in another, she didn't even reach her destination, even though I seemed to be doing everything the same.
Quote:
An Oasis and a Pond increase the current movement points. However, if you don't open the hero window after that, and just get in a boat, you will see a calculation distortion, which is that the bonus is added to both the current movement points and the base movement points, which, after boarding the boat, reduces the number of sea movement points. If you open the hero window, everything falls into place – the current movement points remain unchanged, and the base returns to its original (unincreased) value.
I agree. Although this distortion does not always occur. Therefore, when it did occur, I took off my hat, put it in my backpack, and put it back on my head. Of course, the hero window was opened at that time.
That's right! Now, in the fifth stage, many will have the same results :)
Why do you think so?
Thank you for asking questions that are much better discussed BEFORE the tournament ends than AFTER it...
I will try to explain the movement mechanics in this case. Losing the last unit, in my opinion, is a bug, because it does not matter which exact unit was in your army: after your hero loses the last unit, on the next day he has movement points as if the fastest unit had been in his army... This gives an advantage, but only if there is a move on the next day and if the hero had a unit with speed lower than 11.
In the other cases, objectively, this player will not gain any (cheating) advantages... I hope I am not explaining it too complicatedly... :) So I ask you to proceed from the following theory:
If you do NOT gain any objective advantages over other players, then all your techniques that are not described in the manual cannot be classified as bugs until every aspect of that bug has been clearly fixed in the rules.
Therefore, you may freely exchange the last unit for gold and be left without any units at all; you do not gain any logistics advantages...
But if you decided to use this hero at the start of the second day, then that would be a logical violation...
You are right in essence, you just do not take the realities of Blitz into account.
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There are rules before the tournament. We play by them. Then there is a report, it comes out who used what, it is discussed whether it is a bug or not. A vote. Then the rules are corrected for the next tournament!!!
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Do not make life harder for yourselves or for the players!!!
P.s. Naturally, as the author of all the maps, I bear responsibility for their gameplay,
... and therefore I want to assure you that I know all the techniques and tricks used when playing through these maps... However, there was no opportunity to correct the rules in detail beforehand... Otherwise we would have lost a great deal of time, because it would have been tied to long preparation times for each map...
Although I do adhere to the position outlined by Dmitry, nevertheless I consider IronAxe's argument quite well founded and the most convenient from the point of view of the specifics of running tournaments such as Blitz.
Therefore, I propose that any undocumented game technique not directly stipulated in the rules and giving a player an advantage be considered the property of the player who first used it. Later, this technique (if it gives an advantage) must be explained to the other tournament participants. Subsequently, the permissibility of further use of the indicated technique within any current tournament remains at the discretion of its organizers.
Added after 24 minutes
to IronAxe, AmberSoler. Suppose I had gathered 146000 gold; what would you order me to do under your version of events (there is clearly a different interpretation of the rules).
The phrase about the player's property was especially interesting.
I think many people should speak out about introducing or not introducing the rule I proposed before any constructive decision is made.
Here is a small addition to my proposal:
If the tournament host discovers the aforementioned points, additions are made to the tournament rules. The tournament duration may be extended under such circumstances (if little time remains before the end of the tournament and the results must be corrected due to the introduction of a new rule).
Quote:
Equipped Boots and Gloves increase the base movement reserve M (for calculation purposes) by one and a half times the size of their bonus, i.e. Boots by 600 mp and Gloves by 300 mp, thereby substantially lowering coefficient K. If the hero somehow failed to remove them when boarding a boat, then the increase in M ultimately leads to a loss of 37% of sea movement. The reverse is also true: if they are equipped before disembarking, this increase gives us 58% free movement out of thin air! That is where the bug is hiding.
And I was racking my brain over why in one variant of the playthrough Sylvia had half her movement left, while in another she did not even make it, although I seemed to be doing everything the same way.
Quote:
An Oasis and a Watering Hole increase the current mp reserve. However, if after that you never open the hero window and simply board a boat, then we observe a calculation distortion, which consists of the bonus being added both to M(current) and to M, which in the end, after boarding the boat, reduces the number of sea movement points. If you open the hero window, everything falls into place: the current movement reserve remains unchanged, while the base returns to its original (not inflated) value.
Agreed. Especially since this distortion does not always occur. Therefore, when it did occur, I took off the hat, put it in the backpack, and put it back on the reckless head. Naturally, the hero window was opened in the process.
Equipped Boots and Gloves increase the base movement reserve M (for calculation purposes) by one and a half times the size of their bonus, i.e. Boots by 600 mp and Gloves by 300 mp, thereby substantially lowering coefficient K. If the hero somehow failed to remove them when boarding a boat, then the increase in M ultimately leads to a loss of 37% of sea movement. The reverse is also true: if they are equipped before disembarking, this increase gives us 58% free movement out of thin air! That is where the bug is hiding.
And I was racking my brain over why in one variant of the playthrough Sylvia had half her movement left, while in another she did not even make it, although I seemed to be doing everything the same way.
Quote:
An Oasis and a Watering Hole increase the current mp reserve. However, if after that you never open the hero window and simply board a boat, then we observe a calculation distortion, which consists of the bonus being added both to M(current) and to M, which in the end, after boarding the boat, reduces the number of sea movement points. If you open the hero window, everything falls into place: the current movement reserve remains unchanged, while the base returns to its original (not inflated) value.
Agreed. Especially since this distortion does not always occur. Therefore, when it did occur, I took off the hat, put it in the backpack, and put it back on the reckless head. Naturally, the hero window was opened in the process.
What does the rule clause mean for a newcomer: it is forbidden to use sea movement bonuses on land??? He will play on 3.0, since that is allowed; he will put on the hat, board the boat, sail, disembark, summon the boat again, board/disembark again, and so on. He will inevitably use it. And when checked he will say that he knows nothing about any bonuses at all, but he is sure he did not violate anything, because he did nothing forbidden :) And all of you will again shout and think up new rules :)
Let's approach this problem from a different angle.
The tournament rules, as stated in the first post, prohibit the use of navigation bonuses on land. No one has made any further changes.
Amber then clarifies:
Using navigation bonuses implies boarding a boat and disembarking from it to increase the MP reserve (in my opinion, this is no longer the case in SoD 3.2). If a player uses a boat to move between islands (or sections of the same island that are closer by water than by land), this is not considered exploiting a bug.
In any case, if there is any (justifiable) reason to use a boat, it is not prohibited.
As for the issue of converting sea movement into land movement, I understand that he wasn't aware of it. Yes, in principle, it's not important. Who said that the list is exhaustive? I am guided by the rule mentioned above - navigation bonuses cannot be used on land. I also interpreted it correctly. And no one can "accuse" me if I dispute the final results. I don't need to do that at the moment, but who says that the others will agree with the results...
