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Posts from Balance in HotA. Auto-translated

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#93
HOTA is better then SOD for me - only need miror tavern in miror template )))

“Everything comes in time to him who knows how to wait.”
Leo Tolstoy
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#94
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I'll duplicate my lengthy post here and add a couple more ideas:

The "air view" and "earth view" spells are too overpowered for their level; the map could benefit from objects with similar functionality.
Marcus Aurelius
The current situation, where everyone is obsessed with two spells and the entire game is built around them, doesn't seem favorable to me (and probably not to others either). Many ideas have already been put forward on this topic, including rebalancing the schools of magic and adding new control spells, but all these ideas were limited to changing the magic itself. So, here's what came to my mind: you can create competition for the control spells not only with new spells but also with new objects on the map. (Although the City Portal has been added to the game, the developers have probably already thought about this).

Creating an object that replicates the functionality of the Dimension Door spell would probably not be very reasonable, as there are already objects with similar functionality on the map – portals. If you increase the number of portals so that you can quickly reach any point on the map through some portal, the value of the DD spell will decrease naturally.

Regarding the fly spell, there is a beautiful and atmospheric idea – add a new object called "Pegasus Stables." This object will have quite a high value and will equip the hero's army with flying horses, allowing him to fly around the map for the rest of the week. At the same time, similar to ordinary stables, you can upgrade pegasi for free in the Pegasus Stables.

I also came up with two objects with completely new functionality, but they fit well into the game mechanics:

1) Summoning Portal. Unlike the dungeon summoning portal, which for some reason clones troops instead of summoning them, the external Summoning Portal will allow you to buy troops from all available dwellings and cities. When visiting the object, a list of available cities appears (as when using the Town Portal spell), plus a list of external dwellings.

2) Communication Portal. An object for instant exchange of troops and artifacts between heroes. When visiting the object, a list of all heroes in the kingdom appears. You select the desired hero – an exchange window appears, as with a normal hero contact. The object can be used no more than once a day.

Corresponding spells can be added to the fire and water schools. An option can be added to the template settings – the maximum number of casts on the adventure map. (It's strange why you can only cast one spell per round in battle, but on the adventure map – as many as you want).

All of the above will not only balance but also speed up the Gameplay, which is more of a plus than a minus. Another interesting point is that these objects will significantly reduce the need to build chains, which cause confusion (in some cases, even rejection) in the minds of new players, and in general, they don't look very good from the perspective of game logic and common sense.
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#95
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Marcus Aurelius, is balancing really a joke? All of this will only increase the imbalance.
P.S. Now is the time to start changing the gameplay based on suggestions from people who don't play online.
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#96
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Socola, and I wasn't suggesting listening to those who don't play online. However, these days, watching streams will be quite enough for an adequate assessment of the situation. Regarding the increase in imbalance, I would like to hear the arguments, if any exist.
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#97
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Marcus Aurelius
Socola, I wasn't suggesting listening to those who don't play online. However, these days, watching streams would be enough for a reasonable assessment of the situation. Regarding the increase in imbalance, I'd like to hear the reasoning, if any.
The argument is that objects like, for example, a stable with wings, are an incredibly overpowered element. Give one to a player, and they'll easily control the game, resulting in a quick win. And in general, implementing the proposed ideas will only lead to a simplification of the game, which will diminish skill and make random item drops even more important. In my opinion, what's really needed today is a revamp of the game mechanics in some form (the Sod's version is quite acceptable) and a fix for Jeremy. Everything else is not as important.
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#98
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socola
The argument is that objects like, for example, a stable with wings, are an incredibly overpowered element. Giving one to a player makes it easy to control the game, and they win easily.

In my opinion, balancing control is best achieved by providing "easy control" to both players. Otherwise, factors like wings, Chaos Zone, or Castle of Valor in the first Utopia will continue to dominate. It is quite possible that in HotA, it will become possible to configure the template so that both players receive the necessary objects.
socola
And in general, implementing the proposed ideas will only lead to a simplification of the game, which will diminish skill, and the distribution of objects will play an even greater role.

This is a debatable statement. Again, adjusting the balance of object distribution is a separate issue, and simplifying the game, in my opinion, is a plus for both players and viewers. The fact that these objects can change the established gameplay does not mean that skill will be diminished; it simply means that the concept of "skill" will change, i.e., only the standard technique of the game will change. The introduction of workshops and candies is a prime example of how new objects can refresh the gameplay without causing imbalance or rejection.
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#99
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Marcus Aurelius
In my opinion, balancing control is easiest achieved by providing "easy control" to both players.
Giving both players easy control will simply mean that luck, rather than skill, will determine the outcome. Gathering objects using control over a couple of days is not a difficult task, even for a beginner.
Marcus Aurelius
Otherwise, factors such as wings, Chaos Zone, or Knight's Vault in the first Utopia will continue to play a significant role. It is quite possible that in HotA, it will be possible to customize the template so that both players receive the necessary objects.
To prevent control from the first Utopia from being so decisive, the GM system was redesigned. In general, the paradigm of today's online gaming is such that control is one of the most important elements of the game, and to obtain it, one must make certain efforts, rather than simply leaving the castle and seeing a stable with a free flyer.
Marcus Aurelius
That's a debatable statement. Again, adjusting the balance of the distribution is a separate issue, but simplifying the game, in my opinion, is a plus for both players and viewers. The fact that these objects can change the established gameplay does not mean that skill will be diminished; it simply means that the concept of "skill" will change, i.e., only the standard technique of the game will change. The introduction of workshops and candies is a prime example of how new objects can refresh the gameplay without causing imbalance or rejection.
Workshops and candies are not fundamentally new objects, but slightly modified old ones. Don't confuse modified cons and clues, which did not have a significant impact on the gameplay, with completely new objects that provide control.
Simplification may be a plus only for the casual audience, but there are none among the players in HotA.
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#100
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socola
In general, the paradigm of today's online games is such that control is one of the most important elements of the game, and to gain it, one must make certain efforts, rather than simply leaving the castle and seeing a stable with a free flyer.

Naturally, obtaining these stables will require certain efforts, as they will have great value and may only be generated in treasure locations.
socola
Simplification can only be a plus for a casual audience, but there is practically no such audience among Heroes players.

"Simplification" at a superficial level does not necessarily mean simplification at a deeper level of gameplay. Even with these objects, the game will not become any easier, and perhaps even more complex, due to the greater variability in decision-making. In addition, the main advantage of these objects is that they speed up the gameplay, which, in my opinion, is necessary for modern Heroes as an esport.
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#101
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Marcus Aurelius
Naturally, obtaining these stables will require some effort, as they will have high value and will likely only generate in treasure chests.
High value - how much? If 15000 (like the scrolls of control), then on Jebus Cross they will be broken through on the first week, on others - at the start of the second week.
As a result, on the same Jebus Cross, one player will have them generate near the castle guarded by some wood, while the other will either not have them generate at all, or somewhere in the corner of the respawn. And where is the balance? Such things will simply kill the game.
Marcus Aurelius
"Simplification" on a surface level does not at all mean simplification on a deep gameplay level. Even with these objects, the game will become not easier, but perhaps even harder, due to greater variability in decision-making. Moreover, the main advantage of these objects is the acceleration of gameplay, which, in my opinion, is necessary for modern Heroes as an e-sport.
It should be understood that Heroes is not an e-sport and will never become an e-sport.
Game acceleration should be achieved through other means - simultaneous turns, reducing the timer, decreasing the number of restarts. This, by the way, has already been done for a long time and quite successfully. By significantly changing the gameplay, we will simply get a new game that will only cause rejection among the majority of the community.
And it won't be possible to attract a casual audience through such changes - they will just keep playing Wog against bots with insane settings.
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#102
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Marcus Aurelius
Another interesting point is that these objects will significantly reduce the need to build chains, which cause confusion (and in some cases, even rejection) in the minds of new players, and generally don't look very good from the perspective of game logic and common sense.
This contradicts the principles of Heroes balance. It's not about simplifying the gameplay, but about making it more complex.

It's not very clear how a Pegasus stable or various portals to troops could make the game more complex.

The argument about variability is not convincing; variability doesn't make the game more complex in itself, but when there are several options with different advantages and disadvantages, so you have to compare what is more important. The proposed objects don't offer much in this regard – the effect is simple and clear, and the difficulty is only possible geographically (if they are inconveniently located). Moreover, if the location is convenient, the effect becomes overwhelming. For example, an external Town Portal doesn't have this drawback.

I agree about speeding up the gameplay, but not at the cost of "117 flew into the main opponent's base" (on Diamond-MiniNost, this is easy). This will be the case with cheap stables that spawn on standard resource locations.

And if you make the stables worth 20000+ resources, so that they only spawn in treasure locations and are guarded by strong creatures, what will they differ from wings? And by that time, the Pegasus upgrade will clearly lose its relevance. The same external Town Portal is relatively cheap precisely because it is intended for early use, when you don't have your own Town Portal.
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#103
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Wicc
The proposed objects don't offer much in this regard – the effect is simple and straightforward, and the only difficulty might be geographical (if they are inconveniently located). Moreover, if the location is convenient, the effect becomes amazing.

Well, regarding the geography, I remember Sav mentioning the possibility of adjusting the object's range from the road. Indeed, portals for troops will be most effective when the geography is inconvenient.
Wicc
And if you make the value of stables 20000+, so that they only generate in treasures and are guarded by strong creatures, what will be the difference between them and wings?

Nothing, the point is to create competition for wings and avoid situations where one player has them and the other doesn't.
Wicc
And the Pegasus upgrade will clearly lose its relevance by that time.

Well, the Pegasus upgrade is more of a nice bonus and an interesting feature for single-player mode, rather than a strategic element for online play.
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#104
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socola
While today, the only thing missing is a revamp of the game mechanics in some form (the SOD version is quite acceptable) and fixing Jeremy.
Excellent point! I suggest replacing Jeremy with starting logistics for attack or armor. Or leave only artillery (advanced, of course). Otherwise, it has both strong firepower and good mobility...
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#105
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serovoy
Excellent point! I suggest replacing Jeremy with starting logistics for attack or armor. Or just leave artillery (advanced, of course). Otherwise, it has both strong firepower and good mobility...

I agree! Building a GM in several castles isn't the cheapest or most enjoyable gamble. And Jeremy is really too strong... he's just some kind of Pir + Gurnisson in one package.
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#106
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By the way, if we ever get to water-themed map templates, portals to troop locations would fit perfectly there, because there are no roads on the water, the geography is always inconvenient, and it's difficult to build chains between land and water due to the penalty, so no one might even venture into the water, but with these objects, there would be at least some motivation. And instead of stables, we could have a Flying Dutchman.
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#107
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I think that in such hypothetical templates, instead of roads, there should be tailwinds, and that's it. And instead of "stables," there are tools that have been in the game since its very beginning – beacons.
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