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Tournament History online Closed Topic
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Offline Vip.rus
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Posts: 592
#1
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Unfortunately, our resource hasn't tracked rankings since 2012. There's a desire to rectify this, but there are different viewpoints (as usual). One suggestion is to start calculating the ranking from scratch, based on the results of the first completed ranking Tournament (currently, 3 Tournaments are open). The main arguments in favor of this option are that no one wants to calculate the ranking based on old Tournaments, and in the planned Tournaments, the ranking won't have much significance until the very end of the year. Therefore, there's time to compile a fairly objective ranking by the end of 2017 based on the Tournament results. If anyone accomplishes the feat of calculating the previous Tournaments, that ranking can be used as a basis. This is the first question for discussion. The second question is the ranking calculation system. Should all historical results be considered in the ranking, or only the last few Tournaments, with a gradually decreasing weight for each Tournament? I'm not against a retrospective ranking, but I won't undertake to restore everything for past years. It seems optimal to me to start a new ranking from 2017 based on Tournament results, while retaining all the points earned by the participants. There's also a calculation system that seems very good to me: a player will receive points for a Tournament according to the following formula: O = W * 100 + D * 50 + B, where W is the number of wins, D is the number of draws, and B is a bonus based on the placement (B = number of participants / placement * 30). For example, a Tournament with 15 participants, 1st place - 10 wins, 2nd place - 9 wins. The winner will receive: 10 * 100 + 15 * 30 = 1450. 2nd place: 9 * 100 + 7.5 * 30 = 1125, and so on. I suggest that all interested parties express their opinions on the topic and agree on one option. In the future, it will be easy to keep track of the calculations
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Offline Stiletto
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Posts: 228
#2
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My opinion is to keep the entire historical ranking without losing its relevance over time. All the information is available on HeroLeague. Why without losing relevance? Because people have spent so much time on the games, and then BAM! and everything is reset... it's a bit unpleasant.
Discord: Stiletto#0900
Он же Gear (Heroesleague.ru)
Он же VitaliySannames (Goodgame.ru)
Он же Black_Stiletto (Twitch.tv)
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Offline HoM[M]ie
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Posts: 2,601
#3
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Gentlemen, just out of curiosity – is there a ranking system within the Heroes of Might and Magic V community for non-tournament games? Perhaps on other portals? It seems like the Heroes of Might and Magic III community has something similar...
I really enjoy Heroes of Might and Magic V and would like to play a game or two, but I'm not interested in tournaments. It would be more engaging if there was a ranking system for casual games.
aka Sir Holmes aka David Jones.
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Offline KillAndAction
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Posts: 2,464
#4
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HoM[M]ie
Guys, just out of curiosity - is there a ranking system within the Heroes of Might and Magic V community for non-tournament games? Maybe on other portals? It seems like the Heroes of Might and Magic III community has something like that...
I really enjoy Heroes of Might and Magic V, and I'd like to play a game or two, but I'm not interested in tournaments. It would be more fun if there was a ranking system for casual games.
You yourself used to maintain a ranking system for Heroes of Might and Magic V :D
Only official ranked tournaments count towards the ranking...
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Offline HoM[M]ie
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#5
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KillAndAction
you yourself ran the ratings based on the 5 :D
Ah, damn, the disguise failed :D
The matter was abandoned due to the low demand for such actions at the time.
Regarding the topic — are we talking about calculating tournament ratings on HeroesWorld? Is there a plan to merge it with the league one?
aka Sir Holmes aka David Jones.
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Offline KillAndAction
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Posts: 2,464
#6
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HoM[M]ie
Regarding the topic - are we talking about calculating the tournament rating on HW?
Yes.
HoM[M]ie
Is it planned to merge it with the league rating?
No one has raised this issue. In my opinion, it's not necessary.
Right now, the main problem is finding someone who would take care of the rating. But we need to calculate the rating taking into account the tournaments that have taken place since the time when the rating was no longer being maintained...
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
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Offline HoM[M]ie
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#7
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KillAndAction
Right now, the main problem is finding someone who will take care of the ranking. But we need to calculate the ranking, taking into account the tournaments that have taken place since the ranking was last updated...
How important is it to calculate the ranking for past tournaments? I agree with Vip in the following:
I have a suggestion - to start calculating the ranking from scratch, based on the results of the first completed ranking tournament (currently, 3 tournaments are open)
The main "pros" of this option are that no one wants to calculate the ranking for old tournaments.
I doubt anyone will be brave enough to calculate the ranking for 4 years...
aka Sir Holmes aka David Jones.
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Offline KillAndAction
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#8
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Vip.rus
In the future, I will maintain the ranking according to my own system, described in the relevant topic.
This rating is not legitimate. Its status will remain unofficial until it is approved by the Creator. Currently, the only legitimate ranking is the one located in the topic at /topic/8940/
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Offline HoM[M]ie
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#10
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I don't think this is a problem. I can write to the Creator right now and say that I'm ready to transfer the rights to the Vipu rating.
And regarding the fact that you guys started playing the tournament even before it officially began :D I think that when forming the bracket, it's still worth considering the games that have already started... I understand that the rules need to be taken seriously, but any kind of bureaucracy in an already small community of Heroes 5 players is also completely inappropriate. On the contrary, we need to be accommodating to the players and make the rules more flexible!
aka Sir Holmes aka David Jones.
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Offline KillAndAction
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#11
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HoM&M
I don't think this is a problem. I can write to the Creator right now and say that I'm ready to transfer the rights to the Vip rating.
The problem isn't that.
It's that we need to discuss at least 2 issues before writing to the Creator:
- the retrospective nature of the current rating
- it might be necessary to revise the formula itself.
No one will allow a single person to do what they think is right, especially if that person has a high rating and is given the right to manage the official rating.
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
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Offline HoM[M]ie
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#12
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KillAndAction
The problem isn't that.
It's that we should discuss it before writing to the Creator, at least about 2 problems:
- the retrospective nature of the current rating
- perhaps the formula itself needs to be revised.
Individually, I don't think anyone will allow a player with a certain rating to do whatever they think is right if they are given the right to maintain the official rating.
I fully support Vip's proposal in the rating thread.
1. I believe that the rating should either be calculated completely from scratch or based on the league system.
2. I am FOR Vip's formula:
a player will receive a number of points for a tournament according to the following scheme: O = W * 100 + D * 50 + B, where W is the number of wins, D is the number of draws, and B is a bonus based on the place taken (B = number of participants / place taken * 30)
For example, a tournament with 15 participants, 1st place - 10 wins, 2nd place - 9 wins
The winner will receive - 10 * 100 + 15 * 30 = 1450
2nd place - 9 * 100 + 7.5 * 30 = 1125, and so on
Honestly, I don't understand the basis for any objections at all. People have been playing for 4 years without a rating at all, and I don't think it's that important. And even if it is maintained, even unofficially, it's only a plus. That's one thing. Secondly, in 4 years, no one else has been brave enough to maintain a rating. But now someone has appeared, and they are being held back for some reason... I see that Vip is determined to work on the rating regardless of our discussions and the Creator's symbolic blessing, and I absolutely support him in this.
P.S. KillAndAction, do you mind if I move our discussion to the appropriate thread? Starting with your message from 24.11.2016 19:46 MSK
aka Sir Holmes aka David Jones.
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Offline KillAndAction
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#13
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HoM[M]ie
Frankly, I don't understand the basis for any objections at all. People have been playing for 4 years without a rating, and I don't think it's that important. And if a rating is kept, even an unofficial one, that's only a plus. That's the first thing. Secondly, in 4 years, no one else has been brave enough to keep a rating. And now someone has appeared, and they're trying to stop him...
The issue isn't about objections or delays, but about logic. I believe it's unacceptable for one person to unilaterally create a rating system. There needs to be a discussion within the Community.
An unofficial rating can be maintained however its author or anyone else wants.
HoM[M]ie
I see that Vip is determined to work on the rating regardless of our discussions and the symbolic blessing of the Creator, and I fully support him in this.
Rules are rules, and they need to be followed.
HoM[M]ie
P.S. KillAndAction, do you mind if I move our discussion to the appropriate topic? Starting with your message from 24.11.2016 19:46 MSK.
I don't mind.
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Offline Stefandmy
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Posts: 329
#14
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Personally, I don't care about the rating – whether it's zero, from the portal (where I'm in the second hundred), or from the league (where I'm in the fiftieth). The numbers don't change the fact that, for some time now, the great players have been slightly wary of me. :smile17:
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Offline HoM[M]ie
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Posts: 2,601
#15
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KillAndAction
The issue isn't about objections or delays, but about logic. I believe it's unacceptable to make a decision about the rating unilaterally. There needs to be a community discussion.
I agree; here are the opinions of 5 people:
VIP and I share the same opinion – the rating should be calculated using a new formula, based on the League rating.
Then there's Stiletto's opinion. In general, it's similar, but he didn't comment on the formula:
Stiletto
We should take the entire historical rating without losing its relevance over time. All the information is on HeroLeague. Why without losing relevance? Because people have spent so much time playing, and then BAM! And everything is reset... It's a bit unpleasant.
You, KillAndAction, also didn't say anything against VIP's formula, but you didn't say anything in favor either. At the same time, you are the only one who believes it is necessary to calculate the rating for the last 4 years based specifically on tournaments on the Hive:
KillAndAction
But we need to calculate the rating taking into account the tournaments that took place after the rating was no longer being updated...
And here's what I was talking about. The rating isn't that important to this person:
Stefandmy
Personally, I don't care about the rating – whether it's zero, or from the portal (where I'm in the second hundred), or from the League (where I'm in the fiftieth). Numbers don't change the fact that, from some point on, the great players started to be a little wary of me. :smile17:
In conclusion, the overall opinion of those who have spoken is closer to:
1) Calculating the rating using VIP's new formula (2 in favor, 3 abstained)
2) Using the League rating as a basis (VIP also expressed this in the tournament thread) (3 in favor, 2 abstained, 1 against)
Maybe we should create a poll?
aka Sir Holmes aka David Jones.
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Offline Vip.rus
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Posts: 592
#16
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HoM[M]ie
I fully support Vip's suggestion in the rating thread.
1. I believe the rating should either be calculated completely from scratch or based on the league rating.
2. I'm in favor of Vip's formula:

Thank you for your support!
Kirill, I specifically created this thread for discussion, but apparently, everyone doesn't care, as they are silent, which means we can safely create a new rating.
You're the only one against it.
I'm ready to work on the rating on a long-term basis, but I won't delve into the details for the sake of retrospectivity.
A small correction - I don't want to take the League rating as a basis; I will only use it for the first tournament because there is no rating at all right now, and it is needed for seeding in the Swiss system.
If it's possible to make my rating official, that would be great; there will be a rating on HW (Heroes World).
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