Mafia 103. Ice and Ash — Forum Mafia — Page 24

Registered: 10/30/2009

Posts: 41,387

#355 11/19/2016 1:56 PM UTC

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In short, I'm leaving the execution of Ment to you guys.

She wrote it as if she had already made up her mind: D

Tell me what you hanged me for yesterday and whether you have changed your mind today?

I hanged him for strange theories, aggressive behavior, and things like that. According to my information, this person is an avid and experienced Mafia player, but he was writing things like this (as if Revan cast his vote and was going to immediately bring about the execution, not just "see what happens," as is done on the first day), this (making some demands out of nowhere and trying to blame someone else for it. What's the point?). Overall aggression, and also, I didn't like this post: /post/950927/. It looks like a Mafia justification, something like, "I am an honest player; I won't edit my post! But maybe the Mafia would, but I'm honest and showing that I'm not Mafia!" Of course, all of this isn't enough to hang someone on the first day, but people rarely get hanged on the first day... Although, if somehow this did happen (you panicked quite strangely at the end, and I didn't even realize why right away), your candidacy would still be the best and provide information due to active daytime discussion and the ability to build many connections.
Regarding what's happening now, I'm afraid I might be biased because your rhetoric is already directed against me, and I might miss new points, positive or negative. Although, there is already a negative point with the strange idea of "planting" something. ) No, if you tell me how I could use it, then I will take it back...

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Registered: 5/23/2015

Posts: 913

#356 11/19/2016 2:46 PM UTC

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I think I've already said everything I wanted to say about Revan.
And precisely because your information about a seasoned and experienced Mafia player is correct, I can easily distinguish a good, strategic post from a neutral or bad one. And Revan's post doesn't fall into the category of good ones.
Ment, this is what I want from you now.
I think you understand how easily the evidence points to you and how little chance you have of avoiding being caught. What could make me change my mind? For example, a good analysis of all the players, showing who could be innocent and who could be Mafia. Agree that it's not very beneficial for a Mafia player, who is already suspected, to write something like that. Even if he tries to mislead others in this analysis, it will still be quite logical to suspect him (he's already a suspected Mafia). And writing honestly, providing normal arguments – and what if they believe him? – is also not beneficial.
As a result, a Mafia player prefers not to write such an analysis. And that's what I expect from you.
On the contrary, it's beneficial for an innocent player, who is being targeted, to write something like that. Firstly, it's a way to try to convince others of their innocence, precisely because it's not beneficial for a Mafia player to write a detailed analysis, and it's not beneficial for him to accuse innocent players in his analysis, as this will most likely lead to votes against him.
Also, it hints at the role of an innocent player. Most innocent players have some kind of NDs (Night Defense), and therefore have some results from them.
Describing an analysis and using these very ND results in it is quite reasonable (of course, not directly, to avoid getting a Meta Knowledge, but indirectly). For example, "Yesterday I suspected Nefela, which might mean a blocker who blocked her."
I tend to think that Vasya and Petya are not both Mafia – this is a sign of role checking and getting different results. And so on.
In general, the analysis gives innocent players the opportunity to share their results, because by understanding the description of the execution, which innocent player was hanged, their results become interesting, because they should be deduced from the rhetoric of this innocent player, as the rhetoric itself is built, among other things, on these results.

Added 2 minutes ago
And you still haven't answered the main question. Why, when voting for me, did you not provide arguments, which you apparently had?
Now, your vote without arguments is evidence against you. And you're not such a novice in Mafia to not understand this.

Added 3 minutes ago
Well, Ment, your non-pairing with me is already obvious, so I recommend that you talk more about other players in your analysis.
For example, you can talk about how active the Mafia is on average in the game, that is, how many messages they write relative to the average number of messages they write when they are innocent. More or less? I know examples where a player's level of chatter increases when they are Mafia, but the statistics say the opposite – the Mafia usually writes less than their usual amount, because the less you write, the less likely you are to be caught.

Registered: 10/30/2009

Posts: 41,387

#357 11/19/2016 2:56 PM UTC

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And you still haven't answered the main question. Why, when voting for me, didn't you provide arguments, which you apparently had?

And why should I have provided them? This is your main mistake in this Mafia game: you think that players should do something a priori, but that's not the case; they may have their own logic. In some cases, it's also just plain laziness, heh.

For example, can you comment on how active a player is in the game on average, that is, how many messages they write compared to the average number of messages they write when they are a town member? More or less? I know of cases where a player's level of "flaming" increases when they have a Mafia role, but statistics suggest the opposite - the Mafia usually writes less than their usual amount, because the less you write, the less likely you are to be exposed.

Obviously, the number of constructive messages, all other things being equal, should almost certainly decrease. The Mafia has less information to share with the town, even when compared to the "strongest town role."

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Registered: 9/23/2015

Posts: 2,082

#358 11/19/2016 3:09 PM UTC

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Regarding the newspaper: there's a doubling of Ralphior, but not on Hjaljot or Cold; the cook should take this into account; there are checks, again in the plural; Hjaljot is blocked on Nefel; Esben released Vishmaster, perhaps he acted too quickly, but based on the newspaper, I would assume that the action was correct. Now, regarding the Mafia. They killed Cold, not Death, which means they wanted to protect themselves from Ralphior and Stigyor. The second action is not displayed, which means it's Madness; the others have their NDs displayed in some way. And from this, we can conclude that Vishmaster is not Madness. At the moment, he is the most likely Town member for me. I would interpret the newspaper's name as "brother, following brother," so I suggest that Vistrit was Yoroar.

Registered: 11/11/2009

Posts: 3,676

#360 11/19/2016 3:13 PM UTC

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Dude, we're already discussing Mentat here, why repeat the obvious stuff over and over?

In reply to Ment

Registered: 5/23/2015

Posts: 913

#361 11/19/2016 3:23 PM UTC

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Cop

Why should I have brought them? This is your main mistake in this mafia game; you think that players should do something a priori, but that's not the case; they may have their own logic. In some cases, it's also just plain laziness, heh.

Obviously, the number of constructive messages, all other things being equal, should almost certainly decrease. The mafia has less information to share with the town, even when compared to the "strongest town role."

Because the lack of arguments for one's vote is characteristic of the mafia.
Yes, town players should a priori look for the mafia or at least try to make sure they are not mistaken for the mafia. Town players' laziness does not end well for the town.
Cop, please evaluate the number of constructive messages from Fragment, Shaman, and Master compared to their natural town level in your opinion.
And I understand that you are not going to write a detailed traffic light system. But this is your chance to convince me.

Added after 9 minutes

The second action is not displayed - this means Madness; for the others, NDs are displayed in one way or another. And from this, one can conclude that Vishmaster is not Madness.

Interesting conclusion. I would also say that there could have been a block from the mafia on Nefela (a double block), but it seems that's the case; Vish is not Madness, because in that case, in addition to the kill, it would have been beneficial to make a move with Hunger/Cold, but there is no second block when Cold kills.
Which, in principle, does not prevent him from being Death/Hunger.
Also, I am sure that no town player checked the player on the chain, because the living are more interesting. So, the check of Vishmaster, if it was Fragment, could only be a consequence of you being transferred.
However, it is not excluded that you simply don't have Vish as Cold or Madness, and therefore he is the most town-aligned, since only two mafia roles remain.

Registered: 11/11/2009

Posts: 3,676

#362 11/19/2016 3:23 PM UTC

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The Shaman never replied regarding Mental.
But he checks the forum from time to time. What is he shy about?

In reply to RiMpel2

Registered: 5/23/2015

Posts: 913

#363 11/19/2016 3:27 PM UTC

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RiMpel2

The Shaman never replied regarding Mental.
But he checks the forum periodically. What is he shy about?

block/check him. Or put him on a chain right away.

Added 1 minute ago

KindShaman

Well, then let's hang the "Heroes" player, and if anything happens, we'll block Mental.

Here, Shaman is against hanging Mental.

Registered: 12/16/2012

Posts: 20,006

#364 11/19/2016 3:27 PM UTC

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How many votes are there now? I bet due to inactivity, they won't reach the required number for the execution.

Whatever

Registered: 10/30/2009

Posts: 41,387

#365 11/19/2016 3:33 PM UTC

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Because the lack of arguments to support their vote is characteristic of the Mafia.

No?

Yes, peaceful players should, a priori, look for the Mafia or at least try to ensure that they themselves are not considered Mafia. Peaceful laziness does not end well for the town.

You're stating the obvious.

Cop, please evaluate the number of constructive messages from Fragment, Shaman, and Master compared to their usual peaceful level in your opinion.

I'm curious why you chose these candidates from the entire possible set... That is, I see the logic as follows: "I see that they write little, although the player seems to be strong," but in fact, Shaman, as it seems to me, wrote normally... However, one can say that he wrote a little less than usual, and he mentioned a table but didn't post it, right?) In this regard, yes, it's not like him. Toksa, it seemed to me, wasn't very active in the discussion. Fragment? Well, he's not very constructive or talkative by nature.

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In reply to Ment

Registered: 5/23/2015

Posts: 913

#366 11/19/2016 3:45 PM UTC

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Ment

No?

You're stating the obvious.

I'm curious why you chose these candidates from the entire possible pool... I mean, the logic seems to be: "I see that he writes little, even though he seems to be a strong player," but in fact, Shaman, as far as I can tell, wrote normally... However, you could say that he wrote a little less than usual, and he also mentioned a table but didn't post it, right?) In this regard, yes, it's not like him. Toksa, it seemed to me, wasn't very involved in the discussion. Fragment? Well, he's not particularly constructive or talkative in general.

This is elementary; even a minimal reading will tell you that I suspect them of being Mafia, along with you, and there was also Revan, but you said something about him, and I'd better ask Neyra about him.
But if you're not Mafia, the picture should be different. And in that case, a compromise would be someone who could be Mafia and be on the Mafia team with Ment, and also be a peaceful player on the peaceful team with Ment.
And for some reason, you overlooked Master. I asked about him, not Toksa.
And your versions are terribly vague. It doesn't explicitly say: this one is more likely to be Mafia, this one is less likely to be Mafia.

In reply to RiMpel2

Registered: 9/23/2015

Posts: 2,082

#367 11/19/2016 3:49 PM UTC

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RiMpel2

Fragment, brother, we're hanging Mental here, why write obvious things in the newspaper again?

Each player's view of the newspaper is important. So, I'll do everything in order – first, I'll analyze the newspaper, then the posts in the thread.

Tsvetaeva - Koktebel - Koktebel Factory of Fine Wines and Cognacs - Cognac - Brandy - Strong alcoholic drink - Alcohol content - Whiskey - Scotch whiskey - Whitehorse

Doesn't look reliable.

Jack London - gold rush - Yukon territory - Whitehorse.
Whitehorse - Klondike Gold Rush." - Jack London

Different direct and reverse connections? This raises doubts.

Jack London - San Francisco - Francis of Assisi - Franciscan order - Innocent III - Struggle against the Cathars (Cathars)

Cathars - Innocent III - Francis of Assisi - San Francisco - Jack London

But this is good! It's a pity I didn't find it myself (
In general, I'm going to try to find a normal connection between the second clue and Jack London. If I find it, then Mental must definitely be executed, although even now Nefela's find looks quite convincing.

Added 1 minute ago

Fragment? Well, he's not so constructively verbose in life.

Huh? :confused:

In reply to Heroist

Registered: 5/23/2015

Posts: 913

#368 11/19/2016 3:52 PM UTC

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Heroist

How many votes are there now? I bet due to inactivity, there won't be enough for the execution.

Nefela should vote, as it's based on her own riddle.
As for the others, some haven't been around, so it's hard to draw conclusions. Vish promised to be more active on the weekend - he promised.
Fragment just joined, maybe he hasn't looked at the versions yet.
Tox and Master wanted the game to continue - they said there would be clues, and then there would be someone to hang. Now there's a clue, so they'll come and vote, they won't go anywhere.

Added 2 minutes later

Fragment

In general, I'm going to try to find a good connection between the second clue and Jack London. If I find it, then we definitely need to execute Ment, although Nefela's finding already looks quite convincing.

The first candidate from the bottom is moving up.
However, we won't rule out a change.

Registered: 10/30/2009

Posts: 41,387

#369 11/19/2016 3:52 PM UTC

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And your versions are terribly vague. It doesn't explicitly state: this one is more likely a mapmaker, this one is less likely.

So, I think everything has been said about this factor... And I wrote about those who are interesting to me personally. The Master writes little, but constructively, there's not much to criticize. Well, maybe a little less than before, but so far it seems to fall within the acceptable range.

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In reply to Ment

Registered: 5/23/2015

Posts: 913

#370 11/19/2016 3:54 PM UTC

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Ment

I think that says it all... And I wrote about those who are interesting to me. Master writes little, but constructively, there's not much to criticize. Well, maybe a little less than before, but so far it seems to be within the acceptable range.

Let's see Master's constructive feedback.

Added 1 minute later
And Ment, the main question is - who to blame if not you. We need an alternative person. I assume you are ready to choose among Shaman, Fragment, and Tox?

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