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Horn of the Abyss / HOTA
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Offline flate
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Posts: 734
#276
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It’s very simple: the wall doesn’t provide 100% bonus damage, but 75%. That’s all. There’s no need to write lengthy, pseudo-intellectual explanations.



ICQ is DEAD! Write here: my discord account is flate#4193
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Offline Wicc
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#277
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This is precisely why Hotatime needs to listen to people's opinions: individuals must be able to think like these "pseudo-intellectual walls" and generate them on demand for any given topic.

The "hit-or-miss" approach of "let's just do it" and "it's very simple" has already been tried in WOT, and the result wasn't very satisfying.
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Offline Wicc
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#278
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Jubi-Juby
Do it! It's a good idea, in my opinion! Maybe other players will support me too...
There was a question asked, not a suggestion made.

Which templates need to be fixed? How exactly should they be fixed?
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Offline ЯR
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#279
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Wicc
The reason why Hotatime needs to listen to people's opinions is that they should be able to think like these "pseudo-intelligent walls" and generate them on demand for any given topic.

The "let's just do it" and "it's very simple" approach has already been tried in WOT, and the result wasn't very good.

You have a specialist on the Moon in your team, what's the problem?
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Offline Jubi-Juby
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#280
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Wicc
The question was asked there, not a suggestion made.

Which templates should be fixed? How exactly should they be fixed?
I don't have extensive experience with all the templates. I can only provide specific feedback on 6lm10a. I agree with the need for two mandatory starting paths with respawn points for players and AI opponents. From the main junction (21, 22, 24, 25), for example, there should always be three paths leading to the 3k and 6k AI opponents, and one path to the corner (7, 8, 15, 16). And in its own junction (9, 10, 13, 14), there should be easy paths to the orange and purple AI opponents (22, 24), but never generate paths to the super-junction. It is also very important to never generate paths to the central zone (23) and within it. This is my specific suggestion for a specific template! What does the community think about this?
ICQ 669307560

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Offline Iamsamstan
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#281
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I'll start a discussion about Luna with a suggestion to remove fire from her starting skills; as an alternative, we could give her advanced wisdom or replace fire with water.
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Offline Prim3
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#282
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Wicc
Casual players have much more divergent opinions about what HotA should be than online players. Therefore, it makes more sense to talk about a "HotA for Prim3." If you clearly state what changes you need, I think the developers will share advice on how to make it happen.
The question here is how developers can implement this more conveniently. I've already jotted down the changes I'd like to see on a piece of paper. Or they can suggest where and what can be changed.
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Offline De_Luxe
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#283
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Jubi-Juby
I don't have extensive experience with all map templates. I can only provide specific suggestions for the 6lm10a template. I agree with the idea of having two mandatory starting paths for both player and AI units. From the main junction (21, 22, 24, 25), for example, there should always be three paths leading to the 3k and 6k AI units, and one path leading to the corner (7, 8, 15, 16). As for the treasure area (9, 10, 13, 14), there should be easy access paths to the orange and purple AI units (22, 24), but never generate paths to the super-treasure area. It's also very important to never generate paths to the central zone (23) or within it. This is my specific suggestion for this particular template! What does everyone think about this?


I agree, perhaps the 23 zone could have a 9k guard or the path could be removed.

And the town portal needs to be fixed somehow. In my opinion, when advancing on the ground, it should allow for 2 jumps, and in expert mode, 3 (or 4) jumps...
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Offline KobRa_RR
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Posts: 3,259
#284
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De_Luxe
I agree, regarding zone 23 maybe make the guards 9k or remove the road.

and somehow fix Town Portal. IMO with advanced earth for example 2 jumps, with expert 3(4)...

Make Dimension Door cost 50 mana and Town Portal 40, that's the whole fix


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Offline Wicc
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#285
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KobRa_RR
Make Dimension Door cost 50 mana, and Town Portal 40, and that's the whole fix
By the way, this is a good exercise in "mental" gameplay modeling — what gameplay effect would the specified change produce?
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Offline ДаУ
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#286
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Wicc
By the way, this is a good thought experiment for gameplay modeling – what gameplay effect will the specified change have?
•Make it so that the portal consumes more movement points, let's say like the base portal, 300 MP;

•If you make it more expensive in terms of mana, it will only add more hassle with mana-hungry creatures, or you'll have to look for +Knowledge or give artifacts, which is also a good idea.

Let's say 300 MP and 40 mana,

I think 40 mana could be a factor if you build the portal early on, or if the hero has little mana, you'll have to get a mana-providing creature, and destroy the hero.

•Also, some spells could be re-evaluated: Counterspell, Fire Shield, Grief, Executioner, reduce their level, move the summoning spells of elementals to the 4th or 3rd level, and there will be no need to restructure – DD will become more accessible, and the portal less accessible;

•or remove the portal altogether, or limit it. After all, it should take time to move an army, and not have an instant transfer and control of the map thanks to the portal. DD is not as critical as the ability to teleport to any city of your choice, regardless of its distance; the portal needs to be nerfed;

Thus, we nerf the portal; we get the inability to quickly move an army, which gives the defending side an advantage; because the tactic of capturing an enemy city, teleporting a hero with a large army there, is absurd, or make the portal only basic, to the nearest city.

For example, 2 players, one gets a portal, the other gets DD, and I think the player with the portal will be able to do much more (it would be interesting to watch this on a stream).

•Re-evaluate diplomacy for creatures of levels 1-2, for example (rework the join calculator, monsters will join if the army is 5 times stronger), this will make it possible to gather small garrisons, which will be a kind of counter to necromancy.

or for all creatures that flee when the join calculator is increased, make creatures of the 1st level 50% join, 2nd level 30%, 4th level 20%, 5th level 15%, 6th level 10%, 7th level 5%; what will change if only 1 angel joins from 20 angels through diplomacy?

•Re-evaluate the Seer skill as completely useless, or remove it altogether
672466033
Миха#7845
Ландау лев https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNj_9EQxDoI&t=1174s

Тут делимся книгами /topic/at/1139927/
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#287
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DaU
the portal needs to be nerfed;
Maybe make it cheaper? After all, is 12 mana a bit too expensive?
KobRa_RR
Make Dimension Door cost 50 mana and Town Portal 40, that's the whole fix
Actually, that's a decent idea. Or better yet, make Dimension Door 5 cents and Town Portal 4 cents. :D
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Offline Pridu
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#288
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the city portal should consume all remaining movement points of the hero, and he will be teleported home. There, his wife will immediately... well, you know.
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Offline Wicc
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#289
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Jubi-Juby
I don't have extensive experience with all map templates. I can only provide specific details for the 6lm10a template. I agree with the idea of having two mandatory starting paths for both player and AI units. From the main junction (21, 22, 24, 25), for example, there should always be three paths leading to the 3k and 6k AI units, and one path leading to the corner (7, 8, 15, 16). As for the treasure area (9, 10, 13, 14), there should be easy access paths to the orange and purple AI units (22, 24), but never generate paths to the super-treasure area. It's also very important to never generate paths to the central zone (23) or within it. This is my specific proposal for this particular template!
However, a fixed road network isn't very interesting... the appeal of XL+U lies, in part, in its unknown topology. When you know exactly where and from where you can reach a location, it becomes more like Jebus or Mini-Nostalgia.

This is what held me back from immediately correcting all the templates.
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Offline Wicc
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#290
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It seems the discussion in "let's just" is taking a toll. For those who still haven't realized, HotA Team is buried up to their necks and then some with these "let's just" suggestions, which is why a strong habit of not reacting to such posts has developed.

For a proposal to gain any traction, it must be accompanied by arguments, perhaps some calculations, a description of the planned gameplay effect, an explanation of why alternatives are worse, etc.

Here is a sample of text that might satisfy HotA Team:

Let's take, for example, the proposal to increase the cost of Dimension Door/Town Portal and dissect it; let's try to estimate the gameplay consequences. This question is not complex; the consequences will most likely be as follows:
1) Players will more often run in a stack to KN upgrades.
2) Stacks will take Intelligence slightly more often (not by much, but still).
3) Noob mages with a large mana pool (wizards, elementalists, intellectuals) will be bought up, pumped slightly (up to 50+ mana), and dismissed less frequently.
4) Cheap early control on the 2nd week (not from utops) will be slightly less imba.

In other words, we get an improvement everywhere, but only by a little; fundamentally, the picture won't change.

If control needed tuning, such a proposal would actually work. But it needs a deep restyling—the player's dependence on control must be reduced, and the schools of magic need to be balanced.

And since this is necessary, it means that sooner or later they will deal with it, and exactly what the result will be is unknown in advance. Therefore, there is a high probability that changed prices for control will turn out to be inadequate for the new control system, and they will have to be reverted. Consequently, it's better not to touch them now.
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