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Posts from Tournament rules for "One for All".

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Offline skd
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#16
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Everyone wants things to go back to how they were, but that's no longer possible. The number of players wanting to participate is growing. A large number of teams with 3 players each will result in several very strong teams, as if the same number of people sign up as in OZV-4, it will be difficult to find 28 players of approximately equal skill level. If 60-72 people sign up, then 3 players per team is perfectly fine. The goal of the changes is to level the playing field and increase the chances of winning. Therefore, I would like to hear opinions on the points as Warden presented them. Specifically, why are these changes bad or inappropriate?

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Offline Dirty_Player
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#17
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skd
A large number of teams with 3 players will result in several very strong teams, as if the same number of people sign up as in OzV-4, it will be difficult to find 28 players of approximately equal skill.
Well, what can you do if the players don't have equal skill? What, in your opinion, are the conditions for selecting a strong team? If you look at the history of the tournament, in almost all tournaments, the teams that were not initially considered favorites won. The exception was the first tournament; Gomungul's team was initially a favorite, and the main reason for that was the DRAFT (this is another drawback of tournaments; there should be no transfers).
skd
The goal of the changes is to level the playing field.
What nonsense. To level the chances of all teams, they need to be formed manually, for example, put Gomunguls in the same team as DaU :smile32:. With any regulations, there will be teams that will be obvious underdogs, but who is to blame if they choose "not to care"?
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Offline skd
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#18
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In my opinion, distributing players to slots in a team based on the HeroesWorld rating is more objective than by voting.

Distributing players to slots based on rating is more objective than by the order of captain selection.

Here is a simple example - in the previous OzV, Javdet took me for the second slot in the team, and I lost all the games; if he had taken me for the third slot, I would have shown a good result.

The goal of team formation is to have players of the same level in each slot of the teams.

Suppose there is a criterion: a captain can be a player with 100+ rated games, a rating of 1500+, and a forum registration date of more than 3 years.
At the same time, if a participant meets these criteria, when submitting an application, they write "I request to be registered for the tournament, I agree to be a captain."
And the list of captains will be composed of experienced players who wish to be captains. If there are not enough such willing players, then the rest will be selected randomly from the players meeting the criteria.

Next is the draft itself - players are already distributed among possible slots, so, for example, we have a captain with a rating of 1700 (can occupy the 1st or 2nd slot in the team) and he immediately takes a strong player with a rating of 1600 to have a strong player in the 3rd slot.

Thus, a player's position in the team will not depend on the order in which they are selected.

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Offline Dirty_Player
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#19
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skd
Here's a simple example: in the past, OzV took Javdet as the second player on his team, and I lost all the games. If he had taken me as the third player, I would have shown a good result.
What prevented him from immediately taking a stronger player for the second slot? I think this example is more of an exception, as reasonable captains should first take stronger players. If you allow picking weaker players first and then swapping them with stronger ones, it will lead to everyone trying to immediately choose a "newcomer" who is stronger, because players in the middle tiers are approximately at the same level. This will add even more imbalance in team strengths. Not to mention that such "miscalculations" will significantly extend the draft time. Everything should be simple: you see the strongest player – you take him. In the last tournament, it worked best: one common pool, and you take whoever you think is stronger. For example, Stinger thought he had "luckily snatched" Andres.
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Offline LuckyF
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#20
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I completely agree that no matter what rules you try to come up with, the teams will still be objectively very different in terms of strength. And is it really necessary to try to level the playing field for everyone?
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Offline skd
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#21
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Dirty_Player
What prevented him from immediately choosing a stronger player for the second slot? I think this is more of an exception, as reasonable captains should prioritize selecting stronger players.

Perhaps because he was voted for and, unwillingly, became the captain. And, lacking complete and objective information, he chose someone he knew.

From a player's perspective, when you sign up for a tournament where player 1 plays against player 1, and so on, you end up in a group where all your opponents are stronger than you, and you become a drag on your team. From a moral standpoint, such a tournament wouldn't be enjoyable.
It's one thing when you play for yourself in a group against stronger players, and another when you lose and let your team down.

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Offline cost
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#22
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Regarding the captains – a voting system is the best option.
As for the number of players, I don't mind.
Let's keep the castle selection random, with the same pool of templates available to everyone.
Draws should be allowed, but after reviewing the stalemate situation by a judge (for example, I had a perfectly drawn-out situation against Yaris, where we both ended up with zero resources and started the next week with nothing, so there's usually no desire to continue playing like that).
не играю хоту,смки,анархию
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Offline Browser
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#23
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I would choose pirates! More, more fun, my more! (C) Lukashenko There are objectively strong players who should be captains a priori - like Diabler, Grizzly, etc. - and then create a pool of players from everyone who signed up, and randomly assign them to groups. And with the objective opinion of 5 guys, correct the randomness - for example, I'm the captain of "Stolichnaya" - and I randomly get Bubuch and y2noob, while Khalatini gets Dau and EgieT - we swap EgieT and Yura - the groups become more or less balanced, and according to the algorithm... the point is that groups chosen by the players will always be unequal, but this way - well, it seems to me that it will work, and yes, 3 people.
324183776, browser32 (skype)
Играю почти всегда - пишите =)
Мой twitch канал https://www.twitch.tv/browser32

Весна-осень 2011.

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Offline LuckyF
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#24
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Yes, by the way, I don't understand the point of all-random when trading is possible, wouldn't it be better to have more diverse units on the battlefield?
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Offline Dark
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#25
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Judging by the previous tournament, I would like to express my dissatisfaction primarily with the draft process. Last time, there were over 100 people in the conference, and when it was your turn to pick and you asked if you could see the current pool of remaining players, you were told that you had 1 minute left to pick, or an automatic pick would be made.
Regarding the number of players, I am still in favor of having 3 players on each team, even if it increases the number of teams in the tournament and creates an imbalance between teams.
As strange as it may sound, I am against choosing templates using Bishop's method, by flipping coins and assigning each template a number.

лето 2012.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#26
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Dark
Judging by the previous tournament, I would like to express my dissatisfaction primarily with the draft process. Last time, there were over 100 people in the conference, and when it was my turn to pick and I asked if I could see the current pool of remaining players, I was told that I had 1 minute left to pick, or an automatic pick would be made.
Yes, this is also a problem. I think next time, everything should be done on a stream so that it is clearly visible who is left and who has already picked whom.

Added 8 minutes later
skd
Perhaps because he was voted for, and he, unwillingly, became the captain. And without having complete and objective information, he picked those he knew.
Well, I'm sorry, but I think 90% of the players wouldn't want to be captains. But this opinion has never been taken into account. But if you are given the right to choose, then at least take a look at the list, and if you are too lazy, there is an option to pick the player with the highest rating at the time of the pick - this is a sure thing for those who don't know anyone.

I repeat. For the balance of power, those with the highest rating should be the captains. Otherwise, Grizzly or Toga will be the captains, and that's
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Offline Grizvald
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#27
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Analytics from Sladyish . And, frankly, Pure Draw fought well under my leadership, but there's no strategy against the Lakers Oh yeah, I think I'll also make it into the captains based on the ranking :rolleyes:

But on the topic - after reading about "team balance" and so on, I agree with Lucky, because random teams have become a mess.
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Offline Dark
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#28
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Dirty_Player


I'll repeat myself. For the sake of balance, the players with the highest rating should be the captains. Otherwise, Grizzly or Toga will be the captains, and that's
but Grizzly clearly has 1700+ :cool:

Added after 1 minute
Grizvald


And on the topic - after reading about "team balance" and so on, I agree with Lucky, because full random has become a mess.
I disagree, the whole point of the tournament is initially in all random! So changing the fundamental rule wouldn't be right.

лето 2012.
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Offline LuckyF
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#29
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Dark
what about the fact that Grizzly 1700+ obviously has :cool:

Added after 1 minute

disagree, the whole point of the tournament was originally all random!;) so changing such a fundamental rule would not be right.
Actually, the point of the tournament is team games and team formation itself, while allrandom was just an experiment or a preference of the first organizer. Besides, there were no trade options back then. Now, imagine allrandoming without rerolls a couple of Necro-Citadel/Inferno on Panic or Necro-Tower on Jebus Cross, that would be so interesting to play...
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Offline Sanin
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#30
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I think captains should be chosen. Besides the list of captains, we also get a kind of "popular rating," and I think that's interesting. Four people on a team, in my opinion, is a good number. Better than three. I'm against any ties to the rating; I think it's just unnecessary hassle for the organizers to track the rating of hundreds of people. I absolutely don't understand why it's necessary to create different sets of templates for different tiers; it's easier to give everyone the widest possible pool of templates and choose as in previous tournaments: one veto, three templates to choose from. All-random or draft can be determined by a vote in the tournament itself; I think both options are acceptable.
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