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I see a possibility in such a spell to also transfer artifacts, because if you can teleport living beings, then logically, items can be teleported as well.
Well, then it would simply be a teleport to the hero instead of the castle, which is very overpowered. Artifacts cannot be transferred. Wicc
The main advantage of teleportation over the discussed options is that it teleports the hero. Transferring troops and artifacts is cool for clearing the map with shooters, but it doesn't really enhance the mobility of the main hero. Unless it's done according to the scheme: "transferred troops, got destroyed, bought them back."
Also, I'd like to note that this spell doesn't necessarily have to be learned by the main hero; it can be quite sufficient to have it available to the shooters. I don't know if that's good or bad.
The point is that the spell is a control ability for the shooters, so that the shooters can help clear the map. This could help speed up games in Heroes, or make huge maps playable :) Wicc
If it's bad, then you can allow teleportation in only one direction (for example, "to yourself") based on the castle, and for "from yourself," an advanced elemental skill would be required.
There's no point in having two directions; it's better to have only "to yourself." This way, the shooters will teleport troops to themselves, and before the end of the turn, the shooter near the main hero will teleport the troops to himself and transfer them to the main hero, who may not need to learn this control ability.
MentStatistics
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My suggestion: make troop transfer a 4th-level spell. In my opinion, it's largely comparable to a city portal; it's harder to compare it to teleportation. Here, it's a city portal without the need to actually go to the city. Essentially, the army is taken from some central location (city or main hero) and sent off. Only the mobility of an individual hero doesn't increase, but the overall mobility does. Forbid transferring troops "from oneself," only allow transferring them to oneself at all levels. In total: a weak hero must learn advanced fire magic to be able to receive troops from the main hero, and the main hero must possess it as well to receive them back. This still introduces some limitations and the need for minimal development of secondary heroes. + possibly, it could consume part of the turn (or was that implied?) The spell that grants + movement points near water, which was also suggested, requires a limit on the number of uses per turn. Otherwise, one could think about a deadly combination of such a spell with teleportation from the air... P.S. I'm not a particularly skilled or consistent player in the third game, so I may be wrong about many things, but the ideas being discussed are very interesting, so I wanted to chime in.
Thus, weak heroes will teleport troops to themselves, and before the end of the turn, the weak hero near the main hero will teleport the troops to himself and transfer them to the main hero, who may not need to learn this control spell.
My suggestion: make troop transfer a 4th-level spell. In my opinion, it is largely comparable to a town portal; it's harder to compare it to teleportation. Here, it's a town portal without the need to actually go to the town. Essentially, the army is taken from some center (town or hero) and sent off.
I disagree: with teleportation, artifacts are transferred, which greatly strengthens the hero. With this, only the army arrives, and not even the whole army, plus the hero must have a developed fire skill. Therefore, a maximum of 2-3 levels. Ment
Only the mobility of a single hero does not increase, but the overall mobility does. Forbid transferring troops "from oneself," only to oneself, at all levels. In total: the hero must learn advanced fire magic to be able to receive troops from the main hero, and the main hero must possess it as well to receive them back. Still, there are some limitations and a need for minimal development of secondary heroes.
I explained my thoughts a little higher up about why troops should only be teleported "to oneself." Ment
+ perhaps it could consume part of the turn (or was that implied?)
This is a very good idea, in my opinion. The hero gets the opportunity to consume something on the map, but at the cost of reducing the length of the turn. Very logical, a good limitation. Ment
The spell that gives + movement points to water creatures, which was also suggested, requires a limit on the number of uses per turn. Otherwise, one could think about a deadly combination of such a spell with teleportation from the air...
Yes, I also wrote about this above. The numbers still need to be adjusted.
WiccStatistics
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I didn't quite understand what functionality you're discussing. There are already many of them suggested here, so it would be helpful to clarify.
For example, I didn't understand the phrase:
Prevent transferring troops "from oneself," allowing only transfers to oneself at all levels. In total: a weak player must learn advanced fire magic to be able to receive troops from the main hero, and the main hero must possess it to receive them back.
The spell that grants bonus movement points while on water, which was also suggested, should have a limit on the number of times it can be used per turn.
We need to immediately assess the maximum movement bonus per day. For example, for Logistics, it's 600 movement points. If the spell grants more (even at the cost of mana), it's a must-have and cannot be countered.
Therefore, it should either grant significantly less or impose some kind of restriction on gaining movement points.
Ideally, we should create control spells for lower levels (1-2-3). There's no need to add anything on level 5 (there's already a lot), and adding one spell on level 4 is acceptable.
Also, spells should be usable and without an element, but the benefit of leveling up the element should be significant enough to warrant taking it during level-up. However, it shouldn't be overpowered.
I didn't quite understand what functionality you're discussing. There are already many of these suggested, so it would be good to clarify.
For example, I didn't understand this phrase: Does it not work at all when based on a spell?
I don't think I said anything or agreed with the statement about "not working/only transferring from itself when based on Town Portal troops." To summarize:
For Mana regeneration (level 5), I think it's better to give a fixed number instead of a percentage, so that regeneration doesn't depend on logistics. The numbers could be: * +250 without Water Mastery * +500 Basic Water Mastery * +750 Advanced Water Mastery * +1000 Expert Water Mastery The cost in mana is similar to other control spells - 20 mana without Water Mastery. + a limit of 2-3 times per day per hero.
Creature Teleport (level 3) = teleport creatures from the casting hero to a selected one (selection window like with Expert Town Portal) without range or hero selection restrictions (similar to the base Town Portal). That is, you can always choose who to transfer troops to. Costs 12 mana without Fire Mastery.
Dependence, in my opinion, is better based on Skills Points: Creature level: without school / basic / advanced / expert average increase 1st: 1sp 8 / 3sp 32 / 1sp 16 / 1sp 24 16 2nd: 1sp 6 / 1sp 8 / 1sp 12 / 1sp 18 12 3rd: 1sp 4 / 3sp 16 / 1sp 8 / 1sp 12 8 4th: 1sp 2 / 3sp 8 / 1sp 4 / 1sp 6 4 5th: 2sp 3 / 1sp 1 / 1sp 3 / 2sp 9 3 6th: 1sp 1 / 3sp 4 / 1sp 2 / 1sp 3 2 7th: 2sp 1 / 3sp 2 / 1sp 1 / 2sp 3 1 For refinement, you can make a coefficient for each unit separately.
Rounding is always up, i.e., with 2sp and Basic Fire Mastery, the hero will only be able to teleport 1 unit of level 7 at a time, because 3sp are needed for 2 creatures. In fact, this is a mana limit, since the number of times is not limited. So, maybe it makes sense to limit the number of troop teleports per day per hero as well?
In general, troop teleportation, in my opinion, is a great idea. In addition to speeding up games, you can get leveled-up heroes + you can get a bonus to Necromancy, which was heavily nerfed in HotA + you can get games in which, in addition to the Fortress Battle, there are other encounters (add new templates for this, maybe?).
For newbies, it's a must-have, so the cost of Fire Mastery increases significantly.
MentStatistics
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Does it not work at all on the base spell?
Oh, yes, I haven't played the third game in so long that I said something completely absurd. Don't pay attention to it ;)
The option with a price table for teleportation should not be considered in any version. Because:
1) This is a mechanic that is foreign to Heroes, and it will not pass any vote.
2) This creates additional pressure on the player's mind. Heroes already has quite a lot of mental calculations (damage, movement, purchase/ransom price), and ideally, it should be reduced and automated, not added to.
So, if something needs to be teleported, it should be any amount for a fixed price.
For MP regeneration (level 5), I think it would be better to give a fixed number instead of a percentage, so that regeneration doesn't depend on logistics. Let the numbers be like this: * +250 without the Water school * +500 basic Water * +750 advanced * +1000 expert The mana cost is similar to other control spells - 20 mana without the school. + a limit of 2-3 times a day per hero.
2-3 times a day for 1000 movement points? This will be skill #1 in Heroes, the hero will be chosen based on the principle of "leveled up Water - go to the back ranks," just like diplomacy on Anarchy. What logistics... water mages!!! The goal is to make Water the best school in Fortress.
Reasonable numbers would be something like 200-400-600 and 1 time per day.
Although it will be a bit boring, the day will start with casting this spell, and then everything will be as usual. There isn't much room for the skill...
I don't understand why add some mechanic that doesn't fit the game, and then try to figure out how to best implement and balance it... just for the sake of it?
MentStatistics
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New doesn't equal alien.
The "summon reinforcements" spell works great in Heroes of Might and Magic V. However, in that game, it only allows you to bring in troops from the nearest castle, so such a spell couldn't compete with controlling other schools of magic in Heroes of Might and Magic III.
I don't understand why they add some mechanics that are foreign to the Heroes series, and then try to figure out how to best implement and balance them... just for the sake of it?
Because this is what they constantly do in threads like "Ideas and Suggestions." If some of these ideas are refined here to a level where they are adequate in terms of gameplay, they still have to go through filters of classicism, atmosphere, game logic, difficulty of implementation, and so on. Not all of them will survive this journey.
Yeah. If you formulate the requirements in full, it looks roughly like this:
1) Simplicity and clarity of mechanics. The player shouldn't have to pore over descriptions or figure out "what on earth they were thinking."
2) Usability without a magic school.
3) Sufficient utility so that there is a reason to level up a school. So that when faced with a choice between Water and Earth/Air upon leveling up, the player doesn't automatically pick the second one but actually thinks about it. Or at least doesn't choose their father based on "who leveled Earth."
4) Not being OP at expert level; one must-have (Earth) is enough, no need to create more.
5) Do not make strengthened or weakened copies of existing controls. The spheres of application for spells may overlap, but they should not be entirely contained within one another. That is, if we make a weakened TP, it must have an advantage over TP in some (even if infrequent) situations. And conversely, TP must still make sense even when alternatives exist.
6) Whenever possible, create spells that require game skill to use effectively. In other words, it's better to make a fire wall than a lightning bolt.
Those were the gameplay requirements. There is also the requirement of atmospheric consistency—the spell should not be off-putting, should not feel like a "crutch" made for online play, and should have ideological continuity with existing gameplay mechanics. That is, when looking at a spell, you should ask yourself: "Could NWC have made such a spell?" Or "Could a similar spell have appeared in Heroes 2?" (where there were no magic schools).
I understand that for online players, any mechanic that improves balance is acceptable. You could forbid upgrading gorgons on Jeba, you could allow joining levels 1-4 at the start for Inferno, you could allow building a library with 211 in computer-controlled Towers, etc. But since HotA is being made for the widest possible circle of players, and the offline community is significantly larger than the online one, the requirements for gameplay harmony are much higher.
Here's an example of how this process works, a sample of the reasoning:
Let's say we come up with the idea of "Individual Teleport." That is, the ability for a hero to teleport to a town without an army.
The first thought is that, since it's a teleport, we should primarily consider a scaling system similar to that of Teleport itself. That is: base - reduced mana cost advanced - choice of town expert - reduced movement cost usability at the base level, benefit at the expert level, and no imbalance at the expert level – all of these are present, so we will only look at other scaling systems if this one doesn't work.
The first problem is: with what army should the hero teleport?
If it's with no army at all, it will conflict with the rule that "the hero must have at least some army."
If it's with any single unit, it will create an exploit, such as "teleporting N angels in N iterations." For example, level up a weak mage with the appropriate skill and school, spend all their mana and movement points in one day, but set up a shuttle service to transport large units. Gameplay mechanics that allow for such exploits should not exist in Heroes, especially new ones.
If it's with the starting unit (the one they come with from the tavern), another exploit will arise: unit conversion. For example, take a weak unit with fakes out of prison and start converting fairies into gremlins, one at a time. Well, why not – mana and movement points are restored for free, so why not convert some units. Again, this is an exploit, a perversion, and a violation of the original logic of the spell.
If we make the teleport go to the tavern (similar to Recall), there will be no exploits, and it will be a functionality similar to the HotA Scout (Recall from a point). But there is a question about the atmosphere of such a mechanism. Unpleasant thoughts arise about naming the spell something like "Get Drunk" and so on.
Regarding the overlap of areas of application – so far, nothing has emerged beyond the scope of Teleport. So, we need to come up with something. Adding extra bonuses can lead to a more complex spell, so the most logical idea is to reduce the movement cost, down to 0 at the expert level. This idea has a proven analogue in game practice – the "Scout + weak unit with Teleport" combination, which was often used in HotA and proved to be usable and not imbalanced. That is, if there is a weak unit with Earth skill, and the father has an expert-level Individual Teleport, it is no longer particularly necessary to level up Earth for the father; teleporting through the weak unit is cheaper in terms of movement points.
Of course, the spell level and mana cost need to be reduced. At a glance, the most logical option seems to be level 3 and 12 mana. The school doesn't matter; there are no atmospheric connections, so Fire and Water are both acceptable.
This is roughly how we need to reason when analyzing new spells. As you can see, the solution has not yet been found, but at least the outlines of what should approximately result have been outlined, and the problematic areas that require further consideration have been identified.
ArwaldStatistics
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I'd like to share some of my ideas (more as a fellow player from the chat, less as a hardcore gamer):
1. I've read reviews about HotA, and some players are unhappy with the overabundance of objects (mainly, they complain that there are too many different types of dwellings/resources). How can we fix this without removing them from the game (and later adding new ones)?
During map generation, the generator determines which of these objects will be placed on the map in that generation. For example, we have a dwelling, a Red Tower, an advanced training ground for level 7 creatures, and a dwelling with a bonus for level 6 creatures. During generation, the generator chooses one object from level 7 and one object from level 6. For example, in one generation, the map might only have Red Towers and dwellings, in the next, it might have dwellings and bonus resources, and in the third, some other combination. This way, we essentially keep this part of the gameplay as it was in SoD, but we diversify it, and later we can add even more similar objects without worrying about overloading the map. Also, players won't be able to predict in advance which two types of dwellings will be generated this time and won't take this into account when choosing a castle.
Optionally, we can do the same thing with crypts and Black Towers. Although they differ slightly in reward, it's not a major difference.
2. (Here's my long-held dream) It would be nice to allow players to check a Scholar's Hut and/or a Witch Hut with the Vision spell (the mechanic would be the same as with monsters, only the radius changes). Saviage once told me in the chat that this is technically possible. Considering that playing Anarchy is less interesting in HotA than in SoD, at least the Vision spell could be made somewhat useful.
3. Regarding the recently expressed idea (by Mizari) about a spell that restores movement points:
Instead of a fixed amount, it could restore a percentage of the maximum movement points at the start of the day (e.g., 10/20/30/40 or 15/25/40/50), and, most importantly, tie its use to the use of Dimension Door. That is, you can either use Dimension Door once a day, or use the movement point regeneration spell (on XL+U maps with an Expert difficulty setting, you can use either of these spells twice in any combination). This would provide additional control (it would be slightly worse than Dimension Door because you can't jump over obstacles, but better because logistics-focused heroes can restore a significant amount of movement points and travel further than they could with Dimension Door), but this control would not directly complement the existing one, but rather expand the possibilities. That is, if you find both of these spells, and your opponent only finds one, it won't give you a significant boost, due to the shared limitation (above).
Mizari
