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Tournament Committee
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Offline HellLighT
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#6956
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Wicc
My point is, if you want to get something from people who are doing something just for fun, you need to ask very politely and, if possible, offer something in return. And don't get offended by a refusal, but look for other ways to come to an agreement. And if you can't come to an agreement, then either do it yourself or give up on the idea.

This applies not only to Heroes, but to life in general. It saves nerves, health, and relationships with people.
But isn't it a problem that these people took something that doesn't belong to them and came to a place where they weren't invited? I have to temporarily interrupt this wonderful conversation, but I will definitely read what else you come up with later.
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Offline Wicc
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#6957
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Lider1
Wow, and there's no competition for the target audience? And it's not even advertising? Now it's clear, it turns out it's all just for convenience. Everything for the people :D
In my opinion, HoTa is too small to consider it a target audience. Therefore, it's more of a training ground where you can test the software, balance the game, and so on. Hence, there's no particular struggle for the audience – 20-30 permanent participants in the tournaments are more than enough; there are even more now, and I'm quite happy with that.

And yes, everything should be convenient for the people. This is one of the basic principles of HoTa, and not just in terms of the interface.

Note the almost complete absence of verbal promotion of HoTa (I think you remember how TE/VT were promoted). This is partly due to that.
By the way :D it seems like Hellight was told (or they tried) that the next CIS tournaments will be held on HoTa :D

And so, quietly and unnoticed, the fox came with a bag :D
This is unlikely. Rather, it will be something like "CIS-HoTa" as a separate tournament at a different time. If it even happens at all (it's not in the plans yet).

I repeat, the goal is not to take territory or an audience away from SoD; the goal is to test HoTa online and gain a certain number of permanent players.

The fact that games and tournaments for SoD will continue in 3, 5, and maybe even 10 years (if the Heroes as an idea don't die out by that time) seems to me to be a historical inevitability, and if so, what's the point in fighting it? That's right, there's no point.
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Offline Sanin
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#6958
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Wicc
And tournaments in the general section are only for the convenience of tracking them. Personally, I wouldn't mind keeping them in the HotA section as well, but it's more convenient for players when all tournaments are gathered in one place.

Whose convenience are you talking about? Why should inconveniences be created for the majority of the audience for the sake of the convenience of a smaller part of it?
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Offline Heroin_HP
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#6959
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Wicc
Baratorch has been a member of the HotA team for many years and has been involved in development, including for SoD.
He was also planning to implement it in SoD, but you probably didn't know that, right?

Added 2 minutes later
Wicc
Do you think this will change anything? :cool:

All the information is already there, in the general section. There are no HotA-specific topics. Tournaments are in the general section only for convenience of tracking. Personally, I wouldn't mind keeping them in the HotA section as well, but it's more convenient for players when all tournaments are gathered in one place.
Maybe create a poll, then you can see who finds it more convenient and who doesn't.
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Offline Wicc
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#6960
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Sanin
Whose convenience are you talking about? Why should inconveniences be created for the majority just for the sake of the convenience of a smaller part of the audience?
What kind of inconveniences? Is the topic list stretching or something? Currently, in the main section, there are 22 pinned topics; 4 of them are HotA tournaments, the rest are SoD or General. It's nothing.
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Offline Wicc
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#6961
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Heroin_HP
Maybe you could create a poll, so we can see who prefers which option.
Lol, the answer is obvious even without a poll. And the fact that Dungeon players will rush in and vote for "Baba Yaga against" doesn't really matter; I'll still base my decision on the votes of players in Heroes of Might and Magic.

The goal isn't to start flame wars, but rather to avoid them. That's why we're discussing all this in the Forum section, and not in the general section. Because that's where it would really cause problems.
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Offline Browser
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#6962
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i.e., does the opinion of the majority not reflect reality?)
324183776, browser32 (skype)
Играю почти всегда - пишите =)
Мой twitch канал https://www.twitch.tv/browser32

Весна-осень 2011.

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Offline Wicc
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#6963
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Browser
i.e., the opinion of the majority is not necessarily an indicator, right?
The opinion of the majority of the target audience is an indicator in those matters where the target audience is competent (there are many such issues, but not 100%).

For example, a request to "unban Goshana" may gather a quorum in a poll, but it will not be fulfilled. However, a request like "Flax seems overpowered, please adjust it" will be carefully considered and most likely implemented.

The opinion of the non-target audience is of interest mainly out of general curiosity; in case of conflicting interests, the decision will be made in favor of the target audience.
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Offline Wicc
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#6964
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I'll also remind you that in the days when TE and WT were actively played (I realize many didn't experience that era), tournaments for all versions were placed in the General section.

Somehow nobody was bothered by it, even though the competition there was fierce, holy-flamers shook HeroesWorld, the CIS cup passed from hand to hand, etc.

So in my opinion, someone is getting a bit too greedy...
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Offline Heroin_HP
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#6965
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Wicc
Lol, the answer here is obvious even without a poll. And the fact that SoD players will swarm it and click "Baba Yaga against" is not an argument; in any case, I will be relying on the votes of HotA players.

The goal isn't to start holy wars; rather, the opposite goal is—not to start holy wars. Specifically, that is why we are discussing all this in the Tribune and not in the general section. That would actually be a nuisance there.
Meaning HotA has its own site, its own section, and they're also here where people have been playing SoD for years—notice how many years—I thought it was necessary to rely on the people who were already here before HotA arrived.
I am one hundred percent sure that HotA is only here so that at least someone plays it, no matter what you claim. But given how they position themselves—the word from Bataroch about not making OH for SoD and all the rest—they have absolutely no business being here! Move the tournaments from here into the HotA section on ХВ and look at the numbers; you love that stuff so much, although you're not a stupid person and you understand this yourself.
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Offline Wicc
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#6966
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Heroin_HP
That is, Hota has a website, a section, and they also have a place here where people constantly played SOD. Notice how many years. I thought we should focus on the people who were already here before Hota arrived.
Almost all participants in Hota tournaments were here even before Hota appeared, and many have been here longer than you.
I'm one hundred percent sure that Hota is only here so that at least someone would play it.
Yes, that's exactly it. Was anything else said? :rolleyes:
Move the tournaments to the Hota section on HW, and you'll see the numbers. You love doing that, by the way. But you're not a stupid person, and you understand that yourself.
Yes, being located in the main section of the online game is the most convenient place. Because "it's convenient for players." If it were more convenient somewhere else, the tournaments would be held there. I don't really understand what you're trying to prove...
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Offline Lider1
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#6967
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Wicc
ХВ, in my view, is too small to be considered the target audience.
Even so? Where else will they play it online? Where is the main online platform, and not just for testing?
Wicc

And yes, everything must be convenient, for the people. This is one of HotA's basic principles, and not only in terms of the interface.
Thanks for the fatherly care. My heart just warmed up. I felt it immediately.
Wicc

Notice the almost complete absence of verbal propaganda for HotA (I think you remember how TE/VT were promoted). It is partly because of this.
Yeeess, now those used to be real flame wars, not like nowadays. This time they went about it more cunningly, unobtrusively and gradually. So as not to accidentally trigger a gag reflex, but rather to awaken interest.
Wicc

To repeat myself, the goal is not to seize territory or audience from SoD; the goal is to test HotA in online play and grow a certain number of regular players.
Well sure, and then it will somehow "happen on its own." A sort of metamorphosis from a "training ground" into a traditional base. Not all at once, but gradually, with an influx of new players who may later become the majority, and will vote for and support whatever is needed, etc. Well, basically like the fox and the grapes.
Wicc

The fact that games and tournaments for SoD will continue in 3, 5, and maybe even 10 years (if Heroes as an idea hasn't died out by then) seems to me a historical inevitability, and if so, what is the point of fighting it? Correct, there is no point.
Thank god for that.
The opinion of the non-target audience is of interest more out of general curiosity; in case of conflicting interests, the decision will be made in favor of the target audience.
Simply put, Wick says - I don't give a damn who voted what or how. And how many of you there are, whether you're the majority or not. What matters is whether I consider something important or not. :D

And regarding this "convenience" talk, for which players exactly? HotA? Most of the population of the third game actually belongs to a section that doesn't end in /forum/section/62/ and doesn't enter it; essentially, that is why you've tucked yourselves in here. That is the main reason, not some mythical convenience. No one is stopping anyone from entering poker or politics threads; those who need them will find them anyway, right? But many don't even suspect they exist. And probably many intolerant SoD players find it inconvenient to see this filth mixed in. There are separate sections for WoG, TE etc. Why not go there? No problem. It's a question of logic. But HotA players and promoters find it more convenient to see all this right here :D That much is clear.

On a positive note, this can be considered a success—someone saw you as a competitor. And any holy wars raise the level of interest in finding out what this is. And if you add that all the "strongest players in the world" play it... :D Then even more so :D
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline Heroin_HP
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#6968
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Wicc
Almost all participants in the Tournaments were here even before HotA, and many have been here longer than you.

Yes, that's exactly right. Was anything else said? :rolleyes:

Yes, the location in the main section of the online game is the most suitable place because "it's convenient for players." If it were more convenient elsewhere, the Tournaments would be held there. I don't quite understand what you're trying to prove...
Yes, the location in the main section of the online game is the most suitable place because "it's convenient for players." If it were more convenient elsewhere, the Tournaments would be held there. I don't quite understand what you're trying to prove...[/QUOTE]
Well, this is a question for you. For example, you created Tournaments for the HotA version, but you didn't ask people whether they preferred SOD or HotA. After a couple of times, people started playing, and you call that imposing something on them. Let's take, for example, a normal SNOW 1 tournament that was held on SOD. You decided to take on the responsibility of running it, doing it however you want and as you see fit. You want to promote HotA, so you promote it, and you include some nonsense with these pictures, trying to make it an interesting and unusual tournament. People play because they want to participate and show off their skills. Some people don't play because of this version, even though they played the first SNOW. But you don't care; you're running the tournament and interpreting everything clearly, saying that the tournament isn't official, so everything is fine, and we're playing HotA. But the fact that there would be more people in SOD, and most importantly, more competition in the tournament, is irrelevant to you. Why bother with the quality of the game when participation is all that matters? All the top skill-based tournaments are held on SOD, which is where many people learned to play, are learning, and will continue to learn. Instead, you're suggesting that they play HotA instead of improving the SOD tournaments.
The point, Wicc, is that HotA is using the platform of the third game, making all the decisions without asking anyone (including through your efforts), and openly saying, "We're going to expand here, and you can just stand aside, watch, and if you want, participate!" And yes, there's a ban on OH in SOD because we're HotA, and we know best; it should only be with us.
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Offline Sanin
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#6969
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Wicc
Lol, the answer is obvious here without a poll. And the fact that Dungeon players will flood it and vote for "Baba Yaga against" doesn't make it an argument; I will still base my decision on the votes of players in Heroes of Might and Magic.

Why do you think you should decide this? Who cares who you will base your decision on and what will be an argument for you personally?
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Offline Wicc
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#6970
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Lider1
Yeah, back in the day, the flame wars were epic, unlike now.
I agree. We're getting older, and we're improving our thinking and communication skills (this isn't a joke, it's serious).
This time, they went about it more cleverly, subtly and gradually. So as not to accidentally cause a sudden gag reflex, but rather to arouse interest.
Of course, the experience of TE/VT was studied and analyzed. And the idea that flame wars and aggressive marketing are unproductive was realized and voiced.
Even so? Where else will people play it online? Where is the main online platform, not just for testing?
That's a good question, I've thought about it a lot and continue to think about it.

The main idea is that players who grew up on modern online games generally do not accept the way games and tournaments are organized in Heroes. Modern games are based on the concept of "download and play," where the interface is as simple and automated as possible.

Therefore, the thought that to participate in a tournament, you need to register on some forum, sign up in a topic, wait a week or two for the draw, agree with your opponent on ICQ, play in several rounds with saves, then write a report in a post on the forum... and before that, install Heroes, HD mod, HWRules, Hamachi, achieve non-conflicting interaction between them... create a room in Hamachi, enter the opponent's IP... and so on every restart...

That is, in Heroes, even before the player encounters the gameplay, he encounters a bunch of technical and organizational difficulties, which are likely to cause the reaction "what kind of medieval crap is this, my mom and dad played online games like this, I'd better go play Dota."

If these problems can be solved, at least partially, then the influx of players will increase significantly, and it will not go to the forum (this is an outdated form of online communication), but directly to the server, maybe with an intermediate stop in social networks.

In fact, the combination of an online lobby + a group in VK/FB is what I see as the target platform.

Also, with a well-implemented solution, it will be possible to attract many foreign players, who are currently deterred by the language barrier. If the game is automated to the point that the player only needs to click the "I want to play as Jeb" button, and the program does everything else (finds an opponent, connects, sets settings, accepts the result and updates the rating after the game), then the language barrier will essentially disappear.

Plus, the balance of castles/heroes/artifacts needs to be adjusted as much as possible. By the standards of modern online games, the balance of Heroes is as prehistoric as the interface.

How to do all this within the framework of SoD - I have no idea. The balance cannot be changed even a little, there are no teams of programmers/designers who are willing to improve SoD for free, the community is quite conservative, etc. In HotA, however, such an opportunity exists at least in theory, so the choice is obvious.

//all of the above is my personal opinion, not the official position of the team//
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