The fourth stage of the "Van Kanighem" tournament. — Tournament history (offline)

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Registered: 7/25/2006 8:26 PM UTC

Posts: 863

5/15/2007 6:46 AM UTC #47

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Some people (like you) enjoy almost all the features of the fourth game. I don't like all of them (for example, I didn't like the ability to reload during battles), although I like the game itself quite a bit (I like it more than Heroes 3, but shh, don't tell anyone).
We're waiting for the official verdict.

In reply to Fireball

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Registered: 6/23/2006 8:16 AM UTC

Posts: 1,585

5/15/2007 8:46 AM UTC #48

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Fireball;89840

Some people (for example, you) like practically all the features of Heroes 4. I don't like them all (I didn't like the resaves in battle, for instance), although I find the game itself quite appealing (more appealing than Heroes 3, but shhh, don't tell anyone). We are waiting for the official verdict.

What does liking or not liking have to do with it? The official rules do not forbid load-saving if such a possibility is provided. Everyone is on equal footing. And I don same understand what kind of verdict you are now expecting from the organizers. To ban load/save?? To remove minotaurs from the map?? Or to ban minotaur blocking altogether or allow it without limit. It's unlikely that anything can be fixed for this tournament more optimally than what I proposed. Only after it is over will we go back to Tournament Troubles again :)

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Registered: 6/5/2006 3:38 PM UTC

Posts: 1,575

5/15/2007 11:47 AM UTC #49

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For this tournament, let's agree that if your minotaur manages to block a maximum of two consecutive attacks between two saves, then the battle is considered valid.

And that's all for now... two blocked attacks...

Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.

In reply to Alan

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Registered: 5/23/2006 10:03 AM UTC

Posts: 2,071

5/15/2007 2:04 PM UTC #50

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Alan;89763

If there isn't a "cheater" message at the end, and the walkthrough is passable for any player, then I don't see a reason to make the check too strict. Anyway, as IronAxe correctly said, if something comes up, we'll figure it out together.

As far as I understand IronAxe, the "cheater" message won't appear even if someone cheats... Therefore, the only way to check the save for "cleanliness" is by looking at the description... So, I suggest adding a rule: "The winning save must be sent to the organizer along with a description of the playthrough." Otherwise, it will simply be impossible to conduct the check...

P.S. This addition is only for Heroes 4 tournaments.

Sincerely.

Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров

In reply to Alan

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Registered: 6/23/2006 8:16 AM UTC

Posts: 1,585

5/15/2007 3:22 PM UTC #51

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Alan;89877

Let's stop here... two blocked attacks...

If he keeps them between two of his closest saves in battle :)

In reply to IronAxe

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Registered: 5/23/2006 10:03 AM UTC

Posts: 2,071

5/15/2007 3:26 PM UTC #52

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IronAxe;89938

If he keeps them between two consecutive saves during a battle :)

and how many such saves can there be per round? :D

Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров

In reply to Kyle

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Registered: 6/23/2006 8:16 AM UTC

Posts: 1,585

5/15/2007 3:30 PM UTC #53

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Kyle;89918

As far as I understand, even if someone cheats extensively in IronAxe, it won't be obvious. Therefore, the only way to check a save for cheating is by looking at the description of the playthrough. So, I suggest adding a rule: "The winning save must be submitted to the organizer along with a description of the playthrough." Otherwise, it will be impossible to verify.

No, there's no need to make everyone write detailed descriptions. In Heroes 4, there's a recording of the player's moves. There's a pause function, and you can use the mouse to explore and see what troops the hero has and how they are positioned. By watching this recording (the organizer will have to watch all the recordings and all the episodes - it'll be like a film festival - Alan! Stock up on beer!), the reviewer can identify any suspicious battles. For example, if a hero suddenly jumps to 10 Chaos Devils and they disappear. And then Alan can say, "Aha, this needs to be checked." He can request the save or a description - but not necessarily for the entire game, only for the suspicious battle. No, the top three players won't be able to get away with just a video recording - they'll have to provide a full description! Both for verification purposes and for sharing tactics.

In reply to IronAxe

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Registered: 5/23/2006 10:03 AM UTC

Posts: 2,071

5/15/2007 3:34 PM UTC #54

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IronAxe;89940

In the fourth game, there's a video showing a player making a move.

But, there the "video" only shows the last move (or am I mistaken?). Therefore, to watch the entire video, you need to send saves from each day... or am I missing something?

Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров

In reply to Kyle

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Registered: 6/23/2006 8:16 AM UTC

Posts: 1,585

5/15/2007 3:52 PM UTC #55

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Kyle;89941

But, there the "film" only covers the last turn (or am I mistaken?). Therefore, to view the entire film, you need to send saves from each day... or am I missing something...?

That's right. Well, if someone completes it in a short time, they can send all the saves. Or Alan can request 3-4 more saves from the days on which key units are encountered, in addition to the final saves. From the final save, he will only review the final turn, but he will also see which monster units were removed from the map. He will then ask for more details and receive the next series if he deems it necessary. As for the Centaur, I was just joking. It sounds too similar to Minotaur :)
So, if someone completes it in 100 days, wouldn't it be better to just let them do it, rather than making Alan watch a soap opera and the author describe the entire scenario for him to read?
PS. Maybe we could have three leaders report completely. And allow the other participants to communicate via email or ICQ - i.e., check their closest rivals +/- 1. Require everyone to provide complete answers. Any disputes that arise will then be resolved by Alan. This kind of check would exclude those who voluntarily decide to describe their Walkthrough.

Added after 10 minutes

Kyle;89939

and how many such saves can there be per round? :D

It depends on how many troops each player has and how quickly they progress. But it's important for you to withstand no more than TWO hits in a row. If, after that, you are given a break, i.e., your turn has passed, then you can save again. And from this save, you must again withstand no more than two hits with the Minotaur, which is quite possible. And this is already called looping the battle. If you play several rounds and see that the battle can be won this way, why not. But if the battle is very difficult, with diverse and numerous units, then such a battle should be checked in detail by the moderator. And we will all help.

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Registered: 7/25/2006 8:26 PM UTC

Posts: 863

5/15/2007 4:21 PM UTC #56

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So, a hero jumps to 10 Chaos Devils, and they disappear. And that's when Alan says, "Aha, we need to check this."

Aha, and what if one mine jumps to 100 Chaos Devils, and they disappear? Here, Alan says that this is normal and there's nothing to check, and even if there were, how would you check it, since the battle can ACTUALLY be won manually.

In reply to Fireball

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Registered: 6/23/2006 8:16 AM UTC

Posts: 1,585

5/15/2007 5:25 PM UTC #57

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Fireball;89948

Yeah, but what if one minotaur reaches 100 hit points, and they disappear?
Here, Alan says that this is normal and there's nothing to check, and how would you even check, since the battle CAN actually be won manually.

What should he say if this battle is actually winnable? Put yourself in the host's shoes, and they send you a save file like that. If you demand a save file from right before the last hit in this battle, they'll send it to you, but you still won't be able to determine whether the battle was won manually or if the save file was hacked. What would you do? Would you demand every single save file from the player, when it's already clear that the battle is winnable – the only question is how long it will take. If you remove the minotaurs from the map, they'll send you a save file where a fairy defeats 1000 skeletons, and so on.
P.S. The fact that one minotaur reaches 100 hit points means the battle is winnable. But if one hero reaches 10 hit points, then you need to CHECK whether they win and how.

In reply to Fireball

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Registered: 6/17/2006 2:55 AM UTC

Posts: 406

5/16/2007 12:22 AM UTC #58

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Fireball;89948

Yeah, but what if one Minotaur jumps to 100 CD, and they disappear?
Right here Alan says that it's normal and there's nothing even to check, and besides how would you check it, since the battle REALLY CAN be won manually.

And why not to 1000 CD???

You're at it again, what is this wild urge to kill 1,000,000 skeletons with a single fairy. It's not about quantity, but quality.

Speaking of which: the other day my friend and I played Heroes 3 on one computer (of course without beer it didn't happen), so I decided to attack an earth golem (elemental, depending on who likes what) respawn with 10 fairies, my friend just said that I was crazy and wouldn't be able to handle them. But alas he was wrong, although he got tired of waiting and watching this perversion. All sorts of things he managed to do in the meantime :) while I was fighting in battle.

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Registered: 7/25/2006 8:26 PM UTC

Posts: 863

5/16/2007 6:12 AM UTC #59

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P.S. The fact that one minor unit jumps to 100 attack damage is understandable, as it means the battle is won. However, if one hero jumps to 10 attack damage, it still needs to be CHECKED whether they win and how.

I agree. It immediately brings to mind the Knight Lysander from missions 4-5 of the corresponding campaign. This beast, without any saves or artifacts, would tear through any army on a tournament map.

In reply to K0Lb@zzeR

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Registered: 6/23/2006 8:16 AM UTC

Posts: 1,585

5/16/2007 6:05 PM UTC #60

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K0Lb@zzeR;90029

But why not 1000 Combat Points (CP)?
You're at it again, with this wild urge to kill 1,000,000 skeletons with a single fairy. It's not about quantity, but quality.

If maps in the offline tournament feature such units, we'll crush 1000 CP with a single miner and kill 1,000,000 skeletons with a single fairy. What else should we do? Spend a whole year accumulating troops or give up on the result? :)
P.S. This is exactly the case where the quantity of killed units turns into the quality of the playthrough. Do you know what Suvorov said? "Defeat the enemy not

In reply to IronAxe

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Registered: 2/7/2007 12:31 PM UTC

Posts: 1,739

5/17/2007 7:49 AM UTC #61

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IronAxe;90131

If such units are present on the maps of the offline tournament, we will crush even 1000 Champions with one Minotaur and 1,000,000 skeletons with one Fairy.

But definitely not manually :smile17:

IronAxe;90131