Connection ErrorBad RequestSession ExpiredSign in requiredForbiddenNot FoundToo Many RequestsServer ErrorBad GatewayService UnavailableGateway TimeoutHTTP Version Not Supported
Session Expired
Your session has expired. Please log in to continue.
Sign in required
You need an account to do that. Sign in or create one — it only takes a minute.
Request Failed
We encountered an issue while processing your request.
Please check your internet connection and try again.
The amount of randomness will be high (even higher than it is now) in any case. And what does "not repeated" mean? The same perk may be offered several times; it seems you haven't leveled up in a while, considering you're suggesting ideas that would not only eliminate the ability to level up properly but also the skill of leveling up itself. :)
I have never been offered the same skill twice if there is an opportunity to offer another one (in a row, without a mentor). I have always based my strategy on this. That's why I'm asking, was I just lucky, or was it designed that way? And resorting to personal attacks is not the right thing to do. ;)
I have never been offered the same skill twice in a row if there is an opportunity to offer a different one (consecutively, without a mentor). I always based my strategy on this. That's why I'm asking, was I just lucky, or was it designed this way?
In general, I conducted a series of experiments and found that perks can be repeated twice in a row, even if there are alternatives. For example, after Ingvar leveled up Developed Defense, he was offered Stone Skin, but I leveled up Skilled Defense, and on the next level, he was offered Stone Skin again, although he could have been offered a healing skill or general Stone Skin (perhaps it was decided by the fact that I was leveling up the defense skill; I will experiment more later). In addition, the randomness in leveling up is not very "random"; it seems to depend on some factors that do not change for a long time, at least.
Basically, I conducted a series of experiments and discovered that perks can repeat twice in a row, even if there are alternatives. After upgrading Developed Defense, Ingvar was offered Impregnable Defense, but I leveled up Skilled Defense, and on the next level, Impregnable Defense was offered again, although it could have offered either Healing or Stone Skin (perhaps it was decided by the fact that I was leveling up a defense skill; I'll experiment more later). Also, the randomness in leveling up isn't very "random"; it seems to depend on some factors that don't change for a long time, at least.
Thank you. I'm currently testing it, but I haven't achieved such results yet. So far, it's known that one basic skill and one secondary skill are given, if possible (the manual says one general skill for races and one racial skill).
Added 1 minute ago There's a hero scanner program. I think it's much easier to track the pattern with it.
Moreover, it's quite strange: if you expand the branches, this combination (tactics and fire arrows, both of which were upgraded for the Barbarian and the Knight) appears about 10 times!!! Although access to all other skills from the attack skill tree was unlocked.
Regarding my experiment: I did it without a scanner, simply in single-player mode. I took Ingvar and immediately wrote down the "add_exp" result. The repetition occurred on the 6th attempt (for each attempt, I started a new game), and then I conducted attempts on a saved game, and the same skills always appeared in the same upgrade scenarios; I hadn't noticed this pattern before.
Regarding making all skills basic: we have the following situation (if we are offered skills from the same skill tree): let's say there are 8 skills in the tree, so the total number of options offered to us will be a combination of 2 out of 8, which equals 28 options. If we need a specific skill, then 7 options are suitable, which gives a 25% chance (if we choose a less useful skill, then for the remaining 7 skills, the chance is 28.5%, and for 6 skills, it's 33.3%) of getting the desired skill at that level. Currently, the chance of getting the desired basic skill is 66%, and for improved skills, it's clear: if there is 1 branch, then it's 100%, if 2, then 50%, and so on. For now, the calculations are only for 1 skill tree and only for one level, and they are not very useful. Later, I will try to provide more practical calculations (immediately for a pair of skill trees and considering several levels in a row).
At the moment, it seems that the advantage of the standard system is that it is less random compared to the proposed one, and the advantage of the proposed system is that there is a chance to get the desired skill, even if the skill tree is at a начальный level, and in general, there is a chance to fill the skill tree only with the desired skills. Well, the disadvantages obviously follow from the advantages.
A good post, though a bit one-sided.
So, I provided a nearly opposite example for the binary skill system, which will result in significantly less randomness. But the problem with the binary system lies in the resulting connections. However, the developers' system isn't much better. But! Basic perks should enhance the entire school and, ideally, all skills afterward, as they are introductory. This is logical. However, the difficulty lies in devising such a system. If it were possible to program everything from scratch, there would be no problem. In other words, to create the word "ETERNITY" from the letters "O," "P," "Zh," and "A."
I wrote practically the same thing, but not in as much detail :)
So, I provided a nearly opposite example for a binary skill system, which will result in significantly less randomness.
It's not a given; it needs to be calculated or verified. Because with a binary system, it's easier to take basic perks, but harder to take advanced ones; it depends on the specific scheme. In a ternary system, advanced perks are very often linear (without branching) and are taken automatically. In addition, most of the randomness comes from whether or not you get the desired school in the first place; the choice of a binary scheme has no effect on this factor.
It can be said with certainty that the downside of a binary system is its excessive rigidity, while a ternary system is more flexible in this regard (and the most flexible without connections, but that leads to wild randomness).
And resorting to personal attacks is not the way to go.
Personalities are irrelevant; the point of that phrase is that it is important to consider not only theory but also practice.
Added 16 minutes ago Dyrman
Basic perks should enhance the entire school and, ideally, all skills afterward, because they are transitional. This is logical. However, the difficulty lies in devising such a system. If it were possible to program everything from scratch, there would be no problem. In other words, to create the word "ETERNITY" from the letters "O", "P", "Z", and "A".
Why should they? How is this concept better than others? This is unclear. There are almost no prerequisites for it; many attempts to connect certain perks as an enhancement are, to put it mildly, far-fetched. There are always limitations; within the framework of a Heroes mod, they are one thing, and within the framework of a supposedly "free" game design, they are another. Optimal solutions must be derived based on the system of limitations, rather than complaining about them ;)
Take, for example, the classic combination of a tent and a plague tent. The first perk enhances the healing of the tent, allowing it to resurrect units. The second perk gives the tent the option to shoot. Neither the first nor the second perk enhances the other in any way. Shooting and resurrection are alternative actions. Yes, they enhance the tent itself, and the tent is the connecting link. But the fact is that these perfectly connected skills do not enhance each other, therefore they already do not fit your concept. What more can be said about other, less obvious connections.
In my opinion, the only limitation on connections should be that they should be easily associated, therefore memorable and understandable. And how the association takes place – by enhancing the same action, by a common object, by a common element, or even by name or extra-game meaning – is not so important. I also added a limitation in my mod: no branch should be overloaded (similar to how binary schemes are overloaded), i.e., there should not be fundamental perks that must be taken in order to take many others. Specifically, no perk should have more than 2-3 child perks (in my scheme, there are 3 child perks only in one school + ultimate perks in racial ones).
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition. Сайт проекта - пока неактивен Автор Асимметричных шахмат
A post that has both pros and cons is better than a post that has only pros or only cons (or stubbornly defends one option) ;)
Added 1 minute ago Nargott
In my opinion, the only limitation on connections should be that they should be easily associated, therefore memorable and understandable. Whether the association is based on the enhancement of the same action, a common object, a common element, or even the name or out-of-game meaning, is not very important.
Finally, the opinion has been changed) The most interesting connection is mechanical, because you can come up with anything based on the names of the skills, change the icons, but you can't change the embedded parameters (except for their strength) ;)
Added 9 minutes ago In terms of reducing randomness, the following scheme is good (provided there are at least 5 skills): ___2-3 1= ___2-3 But it doesn't work because of the heterogeneous skills (but thank you to the developers for making many of them, it's more interesting to play with heterogeneous skills).
Added 48 minutes ago I mentioned that the main task of the "binary" system (2 basic skills) is to maximize the probability of getting the basic skills that determine the upgrade path. But the problem is that the second skill (if you level up in one school) will constantly be offered instead of the next ones in the path. If the game had a priority for developing both of the proposed skills, then, in this case, it would be better.
But the thing is, if you level up in one school, the second skill will be offered constantly instead of the next ones in the branch. If the game had a priority for developing both of the offered skills, it would be better in this case.
The second basic perk will only be offered in the basic perk slot. And in the advanced perk slot, they will offer skills that are related to the basic ones you have already taken.
Finally, the opinion has been changed)
I don't understand what you're talking about. The opinion hasn't changed; you probably misunderstood :) That quote was about the fact that associative connections can be created in several ways, and using only one (for example, enhancing the effect) is not good.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition. Сайт проекта - пока неактивен Автор Асимметричных шахмат
The second basic perk will only be offered in the basic perk slot. And in the advanced perk slot, they will offer child perks based on the basic ones you have already taken.
Why was what was written repeated? Nargott
I didn't understand what you were talking about. My opinion hasn't changed; you probably misunderstood :) In that quote, it was about how associative connections can be created in several ways, and using only one (for example, enhancing an effect) is not good.
Previously, any aesthetic connection was rejected, but now it's "approved."
I would like to ask you not to clutter the topic with obvious things, especially repeatedly, because there is no semantic load in this, nor are there answers to reasoning.
Added after 1 minute Or, if you really want to, move to the /topic/9491/ thread. This is still somewhat off-topic here.
Added after 7 hours 33 minutes Besides reworking Hellwave for the Overlord, would you like to see Devil's Chain on Biaara? (I was just thinking of giving Svee an enhanced version of the Lightning Chain).
Previously, any aesthetic connection was rejected, but now it's "yes."
I would like to ask that you not clutter the topic with obvious things, especially several times, because there is no meaning in this, nor are there answers to arguments.
Added after 1 minute Or, if you really want to, move to the topic /topic/9491/. This is still somewhat off-topic here.
Added after 7 hours 33 minutes Besides reworking Hellfire for the Overlord, would you like to see Devil's Chain for Biara? (Just, I was thinking of giving an enhanced version of Lightning Chain to Svee).
I will try to release a new version in 2 weeks.
Yes, of course, Biara needs the chain
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален, Блистает там воздушностью прогалин. Но между кедров, полных тишиной, Расщелина по склону ниспадала. О, никогда под бледною луной Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
Definitely want to.
By the way, did you come up with the specialization for Kha-Belekh?
Regarding perks, I think that this topic is not the right place for such messages, as it is a thread about a mod that adds new heroes, not about redesigning the skill tree.
By the way, did you come up with the specialization for Kha-Belekh?
I assume everything has already been conceived – the question is whether it has been implemented?
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален, Блистает там воздушностью прогалин. Но между кедров, полных тишиной, Расщелина по склону ниспадала. О, никогда под бледною луной Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален, Блистает там воздушностью прогалин. Но между кедров, полных тишиной, Расщелина по склону ниспадала. О, никогда под бледною луной Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
Dyrman
