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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.

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In reply to nik312
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10 years ago
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nik312
This isn't a straightforward situation. On Diamond, for example, the portal could easily be broken on turn 112. And even on X3DM1, it's not uncommon for it to be broken on the first turn, although this isn't a very likely occurrence.

Regarding the main point: I believe that the current logic of the Overlord's Hour (OH) required a replay of the Blue player's last turn, but Zee should have demanded this immediately (it seems from the stream that he immediately understood what happened and could have not waited for the results of all the previous battles). However, after Red had already moved and won 3 battles against Blue, the opportunity was lost. You formally agreed with what was happening as soon as you started moving in the first combat encounter.

If the current logic requires loading and replaying a turn, it's a flawed logic. Either we play until a rematch is decided, or we rely on the algorithm for breaking the Overlord's Hour that is built into the HD mod. Otherwise, for the sake of saving 1 hour (which is a very optimistic estimate of the time saved from the end of the rematches to the end of the Overlord's Hour), we risk creating a situation in the game where a turn is replayed, taking into account a huge amount of additional information obtained during the replayed turn.
In reply to Noom
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10 years ago
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Noom
If the current logic requires loading and replaying a turn, it's bad logic. Either we play until a draw is reached, or we rely on the turn-breaking algorithm built into the HD mod. Otherwise, for the sake of saving 1 hour (this is a very optimistic estimate of the time saved from the end of restarts per match and the end of the turn limit), we risk creating a situation in the match where a turn is replayed, taking into account the huge additional amount of information obtained during the replayed turn.
So, the turn limit break built into the HD mod already gives blue the opportunity to replay the turn. The ability to move one turn with slightly more information is much more reasonable than moving a turn right under the opponent's nose blindly (without seeing the current position of the heroes, the state of the cities, etc.). Of course, ideally, this shouldn't happen either, and the turn limit should be broken preventively, but for now, this is the most adequate option for a soft landing.

P.S. and no, 4 turns per hour are usually not played on HDM1.
In reply to nik312
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10 years ago
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nik312
P.S. and no, 4 turns per hour are usually not played on x3dm1.

Moreover, what's the point of playing further than restarting after an encounter if it saves less than an hour? Looking for trouble?
10 years ago
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And what if, when playing with the AI, you adhere to the turn order as it is in the gameplay? For example, if red goes first, then after completing its turn 122, it waits for the opponent to finish its turn 122. Or, conversely, if blue finishes its turn 122, it doesn't start turn 123 until red finishes its turn 123?
In reply to Heretique
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10 years ago
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Heretique
What if, when playing with turn-based mode, you follow the turn order according to the gameplay? For example, if red goes first, then after their turn 122, they wait for the opponent to finish their turn 122. Or vice versa, if blue finishes their turn 122, they don't start turn 123 until red finishes their turn 123?
What does this have to do with anything? With turn-based mode, it doesn't matter who finishes their turn first.
10 years ago
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How does it matter if there’s synchronization after each turn of both players? I didn’t delve too deeply into how Online Heroes works; I’m judging based on what I saw on The’s stream. Specifically, this is what happened: the turn order was disrupted; Red went twice, then Blue went twice. It would be good if the Online Heroes developers could clarify this point, perhaps explaining how to avoid similar situations, or maybe they’ll fix it in the next version of Online Heroes, or offer other solutions. In short, they should be consulted. And one more thing: please provide a link to the same stream from HellLighT, if it exists.
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10 years ago
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nik312
This isn't a simple scenario. On Diamond, for example, the portal can easily be broken on turn 112. And even on X3DM1, it's often broken on the first turn, although this encounter isn't particularly likely.

Okay, then let's say: interrupting the turn after one of the players breaks through the portal to the opponent's side after turn 121 (insert any date), or immediately on turn 121, if the portal has already been broken by that point.
In reply to nik312
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10 years ago
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nik312
This isn't a straightforward situation. On Diamond, for example, the portal can easily be broken on turn 112. And even on X3DM1, it's often broken on the first turn, although this encounter isn't particularly likely.

Regarding the main topic: I believe that the current logic of the game required a replay of the blue player's last turn, but Zee should have requested this immediately (it seems from the stream that he immediately understood what happened and could have not waited for the outcomes of all the previous battles). But by then, after the red player had already moved and won 3 battles against the blue player, it was too late. You formally agreed with what was happening as soon as you started moving in the first combat encounter.
I'll repeat once more: I realized that the initial game mechanics were violated only in the last battle. Accusing me of cheating and deception is possible, but I've never given any reason for it, and from your side, it's at least inappropriate, and the same applies to Cobra.
In reply to The_
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10 years ago
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Regarding this situation, the AK reached a unanimous decision: the game will continue from the last save point, without replaying the last day.

The following members participated in the discussion and voted on this decision: Redwhait, Nitro, =Stinger=, Mizrael, злой_романтик, Dirty_Player.
In reply to Dirty_Player
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10 years ago
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Dirty_Player
The following users participated in the discussion and voted on this decision: Redwhait, Nitro, =Stinger=, Mizrael, злой_романтик, Dirty_Player
Where is the promised thread with the meeting minutes of the Arbitration Committee?
In reply to Wicc
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10 years ago
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Wicc
Where is the promised topic about the meeting minutes of the Arbitration Committee?
Just like everything else promised, it requires a three-year wait.
In reply to Dirty_Player
10 years ago
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Dirty_Player
just like everything promised, it requires a three-year wait.
Did I understand correctly?
The topic exists, but it's classified!
The classification will be lifted in 3 years? :D :D :D
In reply to The_
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10 years ago
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The_
I'll say it again: I realized that the original game mechanics were disrupted precisely in the last battle. Accusing me of cheating or deception is possible, of course, but I've never given any reason for it, and it's at least inappropriate of you to do so. The same applies to Cobra.
Although it's a bit late, I'm not accusing you of cheating or intentionally exploiting the game. I'm just saying that you immediately understood what actually happened (Red's double turn after actual contact). Okay, let's say you didn't realize that something like this couldn't happen in the original game (although I don't quite understand how you could miss that when you just saw an opponent appear, who immediately takes another turn and attacks you). In any case, you saw the opponent in time to make a decision, and the logic of the "Observe Hero" (OH) system on the site is described quite clearly. Perhaps the judges should have specifically warned players about the obvious possibility of such situations and the obvious way to resolve them (replaying Blue's turn). But that's for another tournament. Here, as Redwhite rightly pointed out, the players themselves took responsibility for playing with OH, they set the date themselves, and therefore they should monitor such situations themselves. Moreover, this seems to be the only situation that needs to be monitored manually.

In conclusion, the situation shows that it is not self-evident, and Blue should be given the legal right to disable OH at his own discretion, with a replay of his last turn, if he believes that the delayed information about Red's turn will seriously affect his decisions. Of course, this will add work for the Arbitration Committee (AK) in the question of "did he actually play differently, or did he just take the auto-move after losing?", but such a question will still arise with the current OH logic.
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10 years ago
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Well, I have to address the issue with another match of Mirror with The_ again. This time, there was an incomprehensible technical malfunction. The match was on a tight timer, with several errors and a lack of time. After the trickster, I was supposed to attack with a "mamashka" on the green, but things didn't go as planned. The essence of the problem is that in the recording of my stream, you can see how I click to open the book, but nothing happens, and the timer continues to tick for 7 seconds. I didn't have time to attack, but I could have blocked his path. I even clicked on the cell, but I didn't have time to click a second time because this wasn't a glitch with my hardware... the timer was running, and the stream was working normally. I ask that the turn be completed on the cell where I was supposed to move. Link to the stream: http://www.twitch.tv/helllight111/v/37121688, time in the recording: 10:23:54. (Caution: contains profanity)

Added 2 minutes later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-YyfLRcpDA&feature=youtu.be - viewers helped to cut the video.
10 years ago
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watched the end of this stream.
Of course, after a 10-hour marathon, mistakes and other issues start to happen.
Especially when the book doesn't open at such a crucial moment, right before the timer runs out.

But, to be fair, after watching this episode several times, I came to the conclusion that it's a bug with Hell, not the software.
The book should open when the mouse button is released, not when it's pressed.
In the stream, it's clearly visible that Hell presses the mouse and quickly moves it away, meaning there's no release of the button. Then he starts to panic and holds the mouse button down and manages to move the mouse again before releasing it. And only on the third attempt does he fulfill the condition for the book to activate: pressing and releasing the mouse button on the spellbook, and the desired action occurs.

It's understandable from a human perspective, but I don't see any reason to replay anything.

P.S. As an alternative, this action could be attributed to the mouse sticking.

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