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Online now Heroist
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#46
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I don't want to argue again, so okay. I just disagree with the comparison, but that's not a big deal. I think you're taking the randomness too seriously, as if it's the main problem with Mafia, and with the game itself in general.

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Offline Ment
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#47
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a terrible example
I would have said that if one figure tries to eat another, percentages would apply, although this would be the case with any other defense, so both options are bad for chess
if players enjoy spending the night trying to kill each other, and during the day they enjoy playing roles with immunity from the first execution, then that's fine. The problem isn't the randomness, but the fact that the GM gave a lot of defenses, and that's not so bad.
Okay, you checkmated the king, but the king's 0.1% defense triggered, he eats your queen, and then in another part of the field, you get checkmated and your king's defense doesn't trigger. Honestly, I don't see the difference; I still have no desire to play something like that.
 

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Online now Heroist
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#48
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Why not create a poll about assassinations without evidence or, say, about immunities to execution?

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Offline Ment
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#49
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It seems to me that you are taking randomness too seriously, as the main problem of the Mafia, and the Mafia itself.
It's not the main problem, but one of them. I don't understand why we shouldn't try to solve it, if it's not that difficult, we just need to think more carefully about these moments in the settings.
A more serious problem for our Mafia, called "inactivity," is much harder to solve, even though it needs to be addressed. But here, it's just a matter of...
 

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Offline Ment
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#50
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Why not create a poll about assassinations without evidence or, say, about immunities to execution?...
Well, we can do that, I don't mind. Although I don't think such questions are particularly important, but we can.
 

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Offline Злобный Ящур
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#51
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Heroist
Why not create a poll about assassinations without evidence or, say, about immunities to execution?...
What's wrong with assassinations without evidence? The only thing is that they should definitely have a cooldown of at least 2 turns. And I don't see anything wrong with defenses against execution. In the city of Ve-He, there were a lot of defenses against assassinations and executions. And nothing, they managed to do it in 8 turns.
Ничто не возникает из ничего и ничто не пропадает бесследно.
Если где-то чего-то убудет, то в другом месте добавится.
(Закон сохранения).
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Offline Злобный Ящур
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#53
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By the way, to speed up the games and avoid dragging them out, I suggest giving all city dwellers a killing ND (No Defense) and no protection! Victory for one side within 1-2 turns is guaranteed!:rolleyes:
Ничто не возникает из ничего и ничто не пропадает бесследно.
Если где-то чего-то убудет, то в другом месте добавится.
(Закон сохранения).
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Online now kcfgogbfalgfl
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#54
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Yashchur
I suggest creating another poll: are "drug-related" newspapers needed in Mafia games?
Heroist
Why not create a poll about murders without evidence or, say, about immunity to execution?...
Sure, why not? Discussion and analysis allow for a better understanding of the problem and lead to more objective and meaningful conclusions. This results in an improvement in the quality of the final product.
However, I, in turn, do not see the need for polls on the specified topics, so initiate their creation independently if you deem it necessary.
Demanding a specific style of descriptions from the game master is extremely problematic; many factors hinder this (starting with the fact that the game master and players have different understandings of the text; writing takes time, etc.), unlike adjusting the setting itself, where anti-fan elements of the mechanics can simply be removed from it.
I also don't like the absence of evidence in a murder, but as in the case of immunity to execution, this is not a luck-based mechanic and, despite its unpleasantness, it can be balanced, so it has nothing behind it but personal likes and dislikes.

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Offline Злобный Ящур
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#55
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Daoshi
The host and the players have different understandings of the text.
That's true, but... There are pictures and descriptions of the roles, and the newspapers should be based on them (and only on them). I still haven't forgotten my treatment in a phone booth...:smile04: How can someone who hasn't watched this "Doctor" (and I'm one of those people) understand that this is a treatment?:smile35: And the role of the killed person should be clearly defined, as well as the role of the killer, and not as it was in round 81...:mad:
Ничто не возникает из ничего и ничто не пропадает бесследно.
Если где-то чего-то убудет, то в другом месте добавится.
(Закон сохранения).
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Offline Happy Life
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#56
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a terrible example
I would have written that when one piece tries to eat another, percentages would be applied, although this would be the case with any other defense, so for chess, both options are bad.
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Online now Heroist
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#57
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So, we come to the beginning: some see the problem in one thing, others in another, and a third doesn't see it at all, but in the end, randomness is the ultimate evil. If undetectable killings and immunity to execution affect the fair conduct of the game less than percentages do, then I don't even know how to react to this anymore.

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Offline Arandor
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#58
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I don't see anything wrong with defenses against executions. For example, in the city of Ve-He, there were many defenses against murders and executions. And nothing, they managed to do it in 8 turns.
So, is it normal when a city can't execute any Mafia members for three days because they have immunities? And this certainly didn't upset or annoy the city dwellers, unlike those percentages, which rarely play a role.

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Online now Heroist
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#59
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Yes, taking Ve-He as an example, it seems that only a Mafam could appreciate the set's feature of having a million defenses against curses and Obem, who devours without leaving a trace.

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Online now Ple-Sen
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#60
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So, is it normal when a town can't execute anyone from the Dungeon faction for three days because they have immunities?
No, immunities are also a rather questionable element of the gameplay. However, this doesn't make percentage-based defenses any better.
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